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Totems aka "Mentor" spirits = ED Passions ??

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DarkLloyd

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« on: <09-25-10/1147:44> »
So I came upon a quandry while I was at work. Are the Totems or "Mentor" spirits (God I hate that in SR4) really the Passions from Earthdawn? Maybe in an Early lesspowerful form?

     I never really played ED, i just have 2 or 3 books from it, so I really don't know much about the Passions but from what I've seen on the boards and from talking to people, it kinda makes sinse. Unless I'm just missing some important piece of info.

So. Toughts?
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« Reply #1 on: <09-25-10/1350:51> »
As a rule, no they probably aren't.  To an individual spellcaster that might (somehow) know enough about the ED Passions and -- this is the important part -- believe hard enough that it's how s/he focuses their power and views the world?  Sure, I guess maybe they could be.

DarkLloyd

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« Reply #2 on: <09-25-10/1619:17> »
What are the differences? Gimme some more info plz.
Runing the shadows since '90
If you can't Dazzle them with STYLE, Riddle them with BULLETS.
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"Sometimes those are the same thing."-Mirikon

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The_Gun_Nut

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« Reply #3 on: <09-26-10/1329:13> »
A Passion is the embodiment of an idea or an ideal.  Those who worship it or follow its path (whether they worship or not) often gain its favor.  Its favor grants a small number of magical abilities tied to the theme of the Passion.  For example:

Lochost is the Passion of Change, Freedom, and Rebellion.  Revolutionaries, freedom fighters, slaves seeking to escape bondage, and progressive philosophers all follow this Passion's tenets.  The freedom doesn't have to be physical, it might just be seeking freedom of thought to escape from a stagnant societies mindset.

Thystonius is the Passion of Physical Conflict and Valor.  Note that "physical conflict" doesn't necessarily mean war.  Just the act of physically challenging someone else.  Thystonius would love the Olympic games, for example, because everyone there challenges themselves and each other to be the best.  Valor, in this case, is of the physical variety.  Saving someone from a raging fire could get his attention just as standing one's ground in battle against overwhelming odds.

Totems are similar, in that the magical follower of the totem tends to take on their attributes, but it stops there.  Non-awakened characters have absolutely no chance of gaining a totem (rules wise, anyway), although many totem followers say that their totem chose them.  The totems also grant a few dice bonuses or penalties here and there, but do not grant brandy-new powers.  Totems are also a lot more generic than the Passions are.  They might have characteristics common to several Passions (love, valor, etc.) but are not as focused as the Passions.
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DarkLloyd

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« Reply #4 on: <09-26-10/1406:08> »
Totems are similar, in that the magical follower of the totem tends to take on their attributes, but it stops there.  Non-awakened characters have absolutely no chance of gaining a totem (rules wise, anyway), although many totem followers say that their totem chose them.  The totems also grant a few dice bonuses or penalties here and there, but do not grant brandy-new powers.  Totems are also a lot more generic than the Passions are.  They might have characteristics common to several Passions (love, valor, etc.) but are not as focused as the Passions.

Not Yet.
Which is my resaon for posting this. Maybe they can't influence us on that level because our magic is too low. We know the Really big Horrors can't come thru yet, they are too magic dependant to survive.
that's all i was trying to get across. Thank you for the extra info tho.
Runing the shadows since '90
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"Sometimes those are the same thing."-Mirikon

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« Reply #5 on: <09-26-10/1446:43> »
Plus, on a more pragmatic level, the simple fact is that Earthdawn and Shadowrun are owned by different companies, now.  I wouldn't expect the next sourcebook to come out to have Mentor Spirit rules for Thystonius (my personal favorite), or something.

If, in your individual game, the ED/SR crossovers are more tightly bound together, or a character has a good reason to know enough about it -- Passions have been hinted at, particularly in SR1 stuff -- then I don't see any OOC reason for any given Shaman to, if it fits his character's knowledge and the spirit of your game, not call his Dragonslayer mentor spirit "Thystonius," if he really, really, wants to.

Doing so might be dangerous, mind you (as, again, has been hinted at in prior sourcebooks)...but if it's what'll fit the flavor of your game, go for it.

I'd want to be a little more versed in ED lore, myself, before encouraging a player in Shadowrun to go that far, but that's just me.   ;)

The_Gun_Nut

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« Reply #6 on: <09-26-10/1625:10> »
Earthdawn and Shadowrun are still owned by the same people that have always owned it.  It is licensed to two different companies, though.

Also, Passions follow their ideals to the exteme and exclusion of everything else.  For example, there is a legend in Earthdawn that the 12 other Passions imprisoned Death in Death's Sea (modern day Black Sea) to lessen Death's sting amongst mortals.  Lochost, however, was so against any entity being imprisoned that he forced the others to give Death a chance to escape:  When enough blood was spilled on the soil of Barsaive (the primary setting in Earthdawn, corresponding to the Ukraine area) that Death would be free to roam the land once again.
« Last Edit: <09-26-10/1628:51> by The_Gun_Nut »
There is no overkill.

Only "Open fire" and "I need to reload."

Caine Hazen

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« Reply #7 on: <09-26-10/1637:39> »
Actually, FASA, as a holding company is the IP owner of Earthdawn, Topps, via the Wizkids buyout, owns all the SR IPs.  SO again, the companies are in seperate hands, which reduces the chance of any further crossover.
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Katerchen

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« Reply #8 on: <09-26-10/1905:57> »
There was a hint about passions in one of the sourcebooks if I remember correctly. Something about an immortal elf following a strange form of totem, more a passion. But I don't remember where that shadowtalk was in...
Anyway there was said that its not a totem.
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BlackMyron

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« Reply #9 on: <09-26-10/2325:24> »
 The few Passion mentions I'm aware of -

  Teachdaire the elf assassin from Prime Runners is said to occasionally mention something about "mad passions".
  Someone brings up Passions in the Tir Tairngire SB, and Harlequin mentions about sending flowers to his funeral - implying that the Tir Princes brutally suppress any mention of them, as they would anything from the Fourth World.
  Another reference is in the opening fiction to Harlequin's Back, where one of the Passions converses directly with Harlequin.
  Lastly, I believe that there are references to them in Black Madonna but I'll need to return to that novel to check it.

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« Reply #10 on: <09-26-10/2350:18> »
The few Passion mentions I'm aware of -

  Teachdaire the elf assassin from Prime Runners is said to occasionally mention something about "mad passions".
  Someone brings up Passions in the Tir Tairngire SB, and Harlequin mentions about sending flowers to his funeral - implying that the Tir Princes brutally suppress any mention of them, as they would anything from the Fourth World.
  Another reference is in the opening fiction to Harlequin's Back, where one of the Passions converses directly with Harlequin.
  Lastly, I believe that there are references to them in Black Madonna but I'll need to return to that novel to check it.
That's about all of 'em, yeah.

Black Madonna has a reference to Questors, in particular.

DarkLloyd

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« Reply #11 on: <09-28-10/0602:44> »
Thank all of you very much.
Runing the shadows since '90
If you can't Dazzle them with STYLE, Riddle them with BULLETS.
"Sometimes we do the right thing.  Sometimes we shoot people in the face for money."-CanRay
"Sometimes those are the same thing."-Mirikon

Missions Characters:
ChromeMonger - Sam
Blanco Diablo - Adept

The_Gun_Nut

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« Reply #12 on: <09-28-10/0616:26> »
Actually, FASA, as a holding company is the IP owner of Earthdawn, Topps, via the Wizkids buyout, owns all the SR IPs.  SO again, the companies are in seperate hands, which reduces the chance of any further crossover.
Um, you know the guys who made WizKids are the old FASA people.  I believe they still own the holding company, if I'm not mistaken.

So...still one place.
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Caine Hazen

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« Reply #13 on: <09-28-10/1108:41> »
You are miustaken.  Jordan Wiseman sold his IPs for Shadowrun and Battletech to Wizkids and left the company.  He formed Smith and Tinker, and is currently licensing his old IPs from MS for video games.  MS owns the properties of Crimson Skies wholeyand the video game rights to SR and BT.  The Wizkids bought by Topps does not contain any of te original founders of FASA, thus the IPs no longer being with them.   Earthdawn went to Wizkids, bu they sold it back to FASA (thus being in seperate hands).  Also was partof the swth from Livingrom over o Redbrick. As to he actual holders of FASA as a holding company, actualy don't know who they are (likely it was the "mystery partner Jordan and Mort had in FASA).  Needless to say, the history of all of this gets convoluted,so I can understand not being able to keep up.
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The_Gun_Nut

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« Reply #14 on: <09-29-10/0454:10> »
Ah, didn't know about the separation of WK and FASA.
There is no overkill.

Only "Open fire" and "I need to reload."