[Daeryth]

Definitely a lot of interesting ideas to chew on here!

I think the suggestion to use additional BP is where I am landing at the moment.  This (to me) reflects PCs starting out well trained and funded, but leaving them room to grow through rewards (which may come quickly assuming they perform their jobs well).  Looking through the core rulebook, availability 12 seems to be plenty - if the guys really want to load up on cyberware, they should be pretty buff and at the same time this should put a cap on the mages as mentioned below.

[Cass100199]

not to put them ahead of the power-curve compared to everyone else.

If a corp has a team of ops guys on staff, you'd think they'd be ahead of the curve. Not invest  a ton of A-D grade ware ahead of the curve, but definitely, you're professional and here's the latest and greatest guns from our factories.

I meant putting the Awakened guys ahead of the power-curve compared to the rest of the team. All things considered, Mage can do more with a 50BP bonus than a Street Samurai can, while both can make good use of a quarter-million dollars in gear.

Gotcha. Makes sense.

[JustADude]

Definitely a lot of interesting ideas to chew on here!

I think the suggestion to use additional BP is where I am landing at the moment.  This (to me) reflects PCs starting out well trained and funded, but leaving them room to grow through rewards (which may come quickly assuming they perform their jobs well).  Looking through the core rulebook, availability 12 seems to be plenty - if the guys really want to load up on cyberware, they should be pretty buff and at the same time this should put a cap on the mages as mentioned below.

The problem is that Rating 12 is what a typical runner on the street, going through the black market, could expect to get their mitts on by the time they get to the level of a reasonably "professional" 400BP runner. A corpsec team is going to have much, much better access to gear, since most Forbidden gear would be perfectly legal for them and they can go straight to their requisitions department to get it, rather than hunting around the underground dealers.

Plus, there are a few (mostly very cheap) pieces of 'ware, such as Muscle Toner 4, that are Availability 20... while giving them something to look forward to is one thing, It just doesn't make sense for the Corp to waste money putting in an 'interim' version (aka, Muscle Toner 2, which is Avail 12) and then pull it back out to upgrade the guy to Rating 4 version into their boy, rather than dropping the good stuff in him right up front.

Also, the fact that the 250,000¥ equipment budget isn't coming out of their 400BP is effectively exactly the same as giving them an extra 50BP, since most Runners drop the full wad on gear anyway.

[Cass100199]

Plus, there are a few (mostly very cheap) pieces of 'ware, such as Muscle Toner 4, that are Availability 20... while giving them something to look forward to is one thing, It just doesn't make sense for the Corp to waste money putting in an 'interim' version (aka, Muscle Toner 2, which is Avail 12) and then pull it back out to upgrade the guy to Rating 4 version into their boy, rather than dropping the good stuff in him right up front.

This is pretty easy to go around, though, story wise. If an up and coming VP gets permission to hire his own little crew, odds are he picked some former mercs, maybe even runners, or people from a military/ paramilitary background, or low level security members. Most of those archetypes would have lesser ware and, eventually, the corp would bless them with some upgraded toys.

[JustADude]

Plus, there are a few (mostly very cheap) pieces of 'ware, such as Muscle Toner 4, that are Availability 20... while giving them something to look forward to is one thing, It just doesn't make sense for the Corp to waste money putting in an 'interim' version (aka, Muscle Toner 2, which is Avail 12) and then pull it back out to upgrade the guy to Rating 4 version into their boy, rather than dropping the good stuff in him right up front.

This is pretty easy to go around, though, story wise. If an up and coming VP gets permission to hire his own little crew, odds are he picked some former mercs, maybe even runners, or people from a military/ paramilitary background, or low level security members. Most of those archetypes would have lesser ware and, eventually, the corp would bless them with some upgraded toys.

Right, but at that point they're just your bog-standard 400BP Runners. 400BP Runners, if built well, are already pretty badass.

[Daeryth]

@JustaDude - I definitely get what you are saying - and I think I would probably go that way if I had more (shoot... any!) experience with the system.  Right now I am inclined to err on the low end of the power scale (even if from a logical 'Return on Investment' point of view it might not make sense) if only to make sure that when bullets start flying, all the encounters aren't trivial to the PCs.  I would rather pull some punches on my side of the screen to get the group through encounters and then start boosting them up than having to escalate the difficulty of the adversaries.

Once again, I really appreciate the discussion!

[Daeryth]

Any opinions on the Corporate Enclave book?  Based on the description it looks like it would be a 'nice to have' as I work on my campaign plot, but I have been fooled before with setting books for other systems that don't deliver the goods.

[GloriousRuse]

The flip side here is that unless you want them playing "we shoot people in the face when we get our orders because we're an HTR or secret ops team, and that's what we do", there's a world of other options available.

The biggest advantage Corps have is their unparalleled resources on a macro scale. It'd be easy to make a corp sec game where as street ops, the PCs are actually on average LESS powerful in terms of raw DPs than your typical runner , but can use the macro level resources to help them handle their problem sets. Not so much "my ares alpha now has 9 points of RC and I have synaptic boosters 3", more like "I need 24/7 astral watch on the following list of individuals" or "I need 4 security teams, each running a fake package" type thing.

Of course corps being corps, you need to justify your resource use. If you ask for the entire Seattle Cyber-ops department, you'd better have a damn good reason, and produce damn good results. it'd be a look on the other side of the fence - not how do you crack into mookland with a team of elites, but how do you use your massive mookery to stop them.

[WSN0W]

I agree, Glorious.

The HTR game I have planned, both having Corp resources and competeing for them are some plot elements. Do the PC's try to side line their income by striping 'ware? When the boss comes down and says the bean counters are thinking that this and another HTR neighboring clinic/HTR station might be redundant so they are considering which one to close and our numbers are a little behind theirs...'

Really, any style can be smash and grab cowboy shoot 'em up, but I think the corp can add a different serious of RP hurdles and advantages. Being able to 'call in the Calvary' be that hacker support, drones, an extract, having a fully loaded armored van ready for you at the Airport so you can just land in New York and hit the streets, etc.

And it can allow for a different morality point of view.

[Big_Pete]

You could have a variation of this theme with the characters working for a patron/sponsor. This could be an unknown entity working through a go-between / fixer to manage the group. This gives an extra layer of deniability (if thats required)

The PCs can still benefit from additional reources (and perhaps access to gear/services), but from a player's point of view they could have a feeling of more independance.

[Ratboy]

One consideration in gear is branding, depending on their employer.  A subsidiary of Ares might discourage the use of competitors' gear (except for special purposes, of course).  This could be used to the benefit of your campaign, if you wish to have some item in the setting but in broader terms don't mean for it to be used by the PCs.

[Xzylvador]

FYI, Corporate Guide has an entire section (starting page 228) that deals with "Working For The Man"

Personally, I think the "Internal Affairs" function could be really interesting for people looking for a low-combat, high- intrigue Shadowrun game.
Since you're new(er), you're probably looking for a bit more action. It offers advice on those too, and then goes on with a long list and explanation of different missions a team can be expected to be sent on.

[Wakshaani]

Personally, I'd start them with less BP than usual, say, 360 instead fo 400, but build an equipment list that each will get ... a Standard Package, then one for a decker and one for a mage (Hermetic, natch. Who'd hire a shaman, hah!) ... then provide some extra resources that they can call up in limited number. The corporation's assault chopper is usually in for repairs or being used by higher-ranking soldiers. They can get it, but, only rarely.

This makes sure that they'll have a uniform, armor, comm gear, weapons, etc, but that they're clearly corporate property that's being loaned to them, not their own personal gear.