[Shadowjack]

Sorry Joe but digging cybereyes out of skulls is most definitely not professional, however you choose to spin it, and the notoriety gained for that would have nothing to do with looting. You'd very quickly gain yourself a cool serial killer nickname in the press. Probably something like the "Soul Stealer", eyes being the windows to the soul and all, which would shoot your notoriety up massively.

Sure maybe initially that notoriety might not be directly linked with you but it won't take long. After all your team mates will make the connection very quickly so best hope that they're really good friends and the reward on offer is too small for them to bother with, if you even run with a fixed team. Keep at it though and pretty soon that reward will climb.

No, your big problem is that your fixer knows the jobs you've been sent on and will be able to make the connection and all the Johnsons who've employed you will start to make that connection as well, after all they know who they sent on the job so it won't be difficult to work out. Is your fixer really that good a friend that they'll keep finding work for a psychopathic serial killer or do they value their own reputation too much. Is that Johnson going to offer you another job or report back that they've found a really good team it would be worth using again. Almost definitely not. Now what are you going to do for work so that you can pay the rent.

All actions have consequences, some of those consequences are greater than others.

What, you drag half a dozen bodies back to your Medical Workshop, harvest the 'ware and sell to a shaddy Streetdoc, move the organs via an organlegger network, and sell the scraps to ghouls and you get a reputation?  One time it was.  It was like free money lying there on the street.  sheesh.   ; )

I remember a long time ago I was in a campaign and we used to sell fresh bodies and remove as much ware as possible. Me made a fortune doing it but it did make the game have a very dark element lol. Haven't done that since but it's cool that options like that exist in the game.

[gyrobot]

Weapon looting in runs is fine if you are in a warzone. Part of the great circle of life. Havent Orlov or his UCAS butt buddy the Jackal taught you anything? They have out of work spec ops who was taugh enough foreign tongue to not be immediately skinned alive to sell used firearms and ammo to nations they cant sell to legally and trade in everything from raw resources to warm bodies. Then when the shooting stops they buy the surplus from looters and refurbishes them and the great circle of life continues.

That said most of us forgot what is the most valuable loot: Drug stashes from drug dens. Easy to carry and sell wholesale.

[psycho835]

Most runs don't take place in a warzone. In those cases you take EVERYTHING that you think may come in handy, assuming you can carry it without impairing your team's mobility, of course.

[gyrobot]

Gang wars also qualify for looting. Fresh outta the box guns that is to be used in a drive by or run down building renovation.

Runs that can encourage looting may include warehouses thta is holding less legal goods shipped in through PMC resupply warehouses. You know they would smuggle in illegally smuggled gold, weapons and drugs that they will say nothing about when the break in was announced.

[Mirikon]

To sum up what most people are saying, looting on runs can be fine, but it all depends on a few basic things:

1. Does it interfere with the main job? Getting in, doing the job, and getting out again are the main things you should be worried about. If your looting endangers any part of that, then you're acting like a jumped up ganger, not a shadowrunner. If the job is supposed to be a stealth run, stealing ANYTHING that isn't on the list is an instant red flag. This is really the most important part.

2. How easy is it to trace? Picking up a few Predator Vs from the gangers that tried to jump you isn't going to risk corpsec showing up at your door with a retaliation squad. Stealing the prototype for Ares's newest rifle and trying to sell it to the local fence? Your ass is grass. Stealing a beat up car near the Barrens? No prob. Stealing a corp exec's private helicopter? Stealing it is the easy part. Keeping it without getting a visit from the Knights? That's hard.

3. How much are you stealing? Stealing a few guns isn't going to cause problems. Stealing an entire container full of weapons to resell on the black market is going to open you up to 'interested parties'. Note, these parties aren't just the 'legit' types, but also whoever's toes you might be stepping on.

4. How pissed is this going to make someone important? Grabbing guns off guards isn't going to cause problems. Stealing an entire shipment of novacoke from a Yakuza warehouse? That's the kind of thing that people get made an EXAMPLE for.

5. How nasty is it? Rival runners try to jump you, but you take them all out? Selling the bodies to your local street doc for parts (or to the local ghoul population) is icky, but within limits. If you need more than one van just for the bodies, that's just WRONG.

[firebug]

Oh!  Another looting thread!  I have something very specific to post, see, it turns out one of the books goes into some detail about it.  Mirikon's summary is more or less exactly what it says, but this way "official source" and what not.

From 4th Edition's Attitude, a second written (in-setting) by Riser:
Part 1
[spoiler]

WHEN TO STEAL AND WHEN TO RUN
Posted by: Riser

My  first real trouble was over a rifle.
I ran support for a Seattle B&E team made up of gangers like myself. The client hired them to steal test data for a Steyr pistol prototype being developed here in the UCAS. My job was to guard their hacker while he hit the mainframe. You jacked in back then. He wired himself to the machine and fell back into his seat like he was sleeping.  That’s when I started to look around.  A weapons testing facility is a lot like Santa’s Workshop before Christmas. I was surrounded by dozens of  rearms, some I’d only ever hear rumors of.  Then I saw the rack at the far corner of the room. Steyr AUG A-3s in sniper configuration, fully loaded. I grabbed one off the rack, puzzling over the thumbprint indentation on the grip. When the hacker came to, wide-eyed, I just reacted. I slung the rifle over my shoulder and the two of us split.  It was like we were never there. Later, I  figured out the thumb depression was actually a biometric safety device in the testing phase. I took it to a weaponsmith to have it linked to me.  That was my second mistake. Somehow, word wound back to the Steyr folks and they came looking for their missing test data.

> So how did you get yourself out of that little mess?
> Sunshine

> A gentleman never tells.
> Riser

Stealing on the run has nearly cost me my life more than once. When FastJack asked me to deliver a few pointers on deciding when to walk away from a job, I knew I also had to talk about skimming profits and taking more than you were sent in for. We don’t often realize the role those actions play in establishing our identity and reputation as shadowrunners. Stealing on the job and failing to complete your mission are tied together on a spectrum of bad behavior. Our jobs are about following orders, doing just what is told and nothing more.  That isn’t easy to do, and besides, sometimes you just shouldn’t do what you were told. I think everyone’s been tempted to steal. When I was on the gang scene jacking corporate freight for resale, profit skimming was supplemental income. I’d slip merchandise into my satchel any chance I could. Stealing works best with non-specialized bulk equipment like chip components, commlinks, or pistols. It also works well with merchandise that is already hot—BTLs, pirated software, trideos, even car parts. So long as the merchandise isn’t too specialized, or the theft of it too noticeable, you can go on skimming for years. In fact, there are times when stealing is the only way to make the work worth the risk. Until the Steyr, everything I took was easy to move on the streets. Afterwards, I was more cautious about what and when I stole. When I graduated to wetwork, I cut my side income altogether. Experience taught me that anything you lift can be traced back to the crime scene, be it through official or non-official channels. I didn’t want to go through the hassle of making someone’s death look like an accident, only to have his or her personal effects traced back to me.

[/spoiler]

Part 2
[spoiler]

The black market is the first place corps look when something goes missing. In my opinion, when you sell extra paydata from your run on the black market, it says a lot about you as a runner. The decision to go outside the boundaries of a particular job is a personal one that ties directly to street credibility. Stealing can be considered a breach of trust with the client. If done under the right circumstances it isn’t noticed at all. However, it can have a disastrous effect on street credibility if the indiscretion is discovered. My problems with Steyr had me on the run for months.  The crew I worked with was never able to work for that employer again.  It could have been worse, though. Depending on the sensitivity of the run, they could have been blacklisted. I could have had a kill notice put out on me.

> Stealing makes stealth impossible, especially if you plan to move the stolen data. all you’re doing is painting a target on your back. What if the people who come to buy your data are the people you stole from in the first place?
> Fianchetto

> They might be interested in paying for what you stole, as well as for information on your client. after all, they couldn’t care less about a shadowrunner. Corps want two things: 1. Their stuff back. 2. The name of the rival corp trying to steal from them.
> Mr. Bonds

> The rules are different when you’re stealing from underworld figures. You take from the Vory and that’s real trouble. It isn’t just about knowing who had the balls to take from them. They
need to make an example of you in order to discourage others from trying the same thing.
> Red Anya

It’s hard for us runners to truly gauge the relationship we have with our employers. I’ve tried to operate my business like a fringe remnant of the corporate world, complete with assurances of professionalism. It helps my credibility to be seen as someone who understands the need for discretion. Unfortunately, employers don’t have that same concern for discretion and professionalism.  Their anonymity makes us expendable.  They often expect they can do whatever they want to me on a run, generally without fear of retribution. On the other hand, if I don’t meet expectations of decorum, it will come back to haunt me the next time I look for work.

> Word does get around about Johnsons, usually from fixers and runners who’ve had bad experiences. a Johnson can’t expect to short-change a runner too many times before top talent stops returning her calls. When a Johnson sends runners on a dead run, it’s a big deal. People will talk about that, and no one wants to work for the lady who sent her last operatives to die.
> Kia

[/spoiler]

Part 3
[spoiler]

> Yeah, there are some Johnsons who come with a buyer-beware tag, but that’s only helpful when the runners are working through a fixer. We vet the client beforehand, so we know the boundaries for a particular Johnson. We can let you know if it’s okay to take a little on the side, or if you’re putting your life at risk by dealing with the Johnson. Cut out the middleman at your own risk. If you aren’t coming to us first, there’s no chance you’ll get this critical information.
> Am-mut

> Anyone else want to delete this bullshit sales pitch?
> Beaker

Common sense is the best guideline for when to steal. I’ll never take anything if it puts the run or me in jeopardy. On the other hand, there is no clear, common-sense rule for knowing when a client is setting you up. Knowing when to abandon a run is part instinct, part wild guess.  ere are tells, of course. If a client is willing to pay better than forty percent up front, I get nervous. Likewise, if the client isn’t on edge at the meet, then I am. I have to assume my client knows exactly how much shit they’re getting me into with a job.

> We do have the power to hold our Johnsons accountable. If you get set up to fail, you gotta take it out on your employer. I’m not saying put a gun to his head, but maybe you sell that data he wanted to the highest bidder. if you’re feeling particularly vindictive, let word slip about who contracted the theft to be done in the first place.
> Sticks

> Yeah that’s real smart. Why don’t you put up a billboard that says, “Will sell out my employer for vengeance.” that’s sure to get you good work.
> Glitch

> There has to be an expectation that we’ll retaliate if we’re screwed. Without it we’re nothing more than helpless wage slaves.
> Icarus

> Who said we weren’t already? Our little area of work is just another free-market economy. When we start attaching stipulations to the work, employers find cheaper, easier substitutes.
> Glitch

[/spoiler]

These are all reasons why bodysnatching, or "scavenging cyberware" isn't usually a good move.  For a normal corporate run, it's stealing, it means you had to murder (which is best avoided), it's messy, and it's hard to transport.  All those things can be prepared for, mind you...  But it will paint you as a very specific, and terrifying type of person, if you regularly make guards "disappear".  Also, not normal guards, because they don't have a lot of 'ware.  Like, security captains and lieutenants and stuff.  At that point, it's certain low-level wetwork (where extraction would be an option, but they don't care if the target lives) or bounties where you have the right contacts after you give the body away.  So, not a lot of work.

[gyrobot]

To sum up what most people are saying, looting on runs can be fine, but it all depends on a few basic things:

1. Does it interfere with the main job? Getting in, doing the job, and getting out again are the main things you should be worried about. If your looting endangers any part of that, then you're acting like a jumped up ganger, not a shadowrunner. If the job is supposed to be a stealth run, stealing ANYTHING that isn't on the list is an instant red flag. This is really the most important part.

2. How easy is it to trace? Picking up a few Predator Vs from the gangers that tried to jump you isn't going to risk corpsec showing up at your door with a retaliation squad. Stealing the prototype for Ares's newest rifle and trying to sell it to the local fence? Your ass is grass. Stealing a beat up car near the Barrens? No prob. Stealing a corp exec's private helicopter? Stealing it is the easy part. Keeping it without getting a visit from the Knights? That's hard.

3. How much are you stealing? Stealing a few guns isn't going to cause problems. Stealing an entire container full of weapons to resell on the black market is going to open you up to 'interested parties'. Note, these parties aren't just the 'legit' types, but also whoever's toes you might be stepping on.

4. How pissed is this going to make someone important? Grabbing guns off guards isn't going to cause problems. Stealing an entire shipment of novacoke from a Yakuza warehouse? That's the kind of thing that people get made an EXAMPLE for.

5. How nasty is it? Rival runners try to jump you, but you take them all out? Selling the bodies to your local street doc for parts (or to the local ghoul population) is icky, but within limits. If you need more than one van just for the bodies, that's just WRONG.

How well would Johnson take it if a run mean to reduce a Ganger's weapon supply by stealing and selling boxes of guns to the black market instead of just burning the stash?

[firebug]

How well would Johnson take it if a run mean to reduce a Ganger's weapon supply by stealing and selling boxes of guns to the black market instead of just burning the stash?

Depends on the Johnson.  If it's another gang's leader/member, they probably want the guns for themselves and would be pissed you didn't hang them over.  If it's law enforcement, they might be a little annoyed that all you did was delay it ("Now they just need to save up money, which will give us a few months, but damn it, that's not what I asked you to accomplish!").  But they also might not care, if they just care about the short term (such as if a police raid is happening in a few days, and they need to make sure the gangers can't be prepared).

You have to use context of who the Johnson is, why the Johnson wants it, and what would happen because of it.

[Mirikon]

Gyrobot, it depends on the Johnson, who they work for, and what the exact wording of the mission was. Mr. J is a person, like any other, so what might set off some, won't be an issue to others. Can't make too big a call there. Who they work for, that's another kettle of fish. If the gang was targeted because they stole a shipment of Saeder-Krupp rifles, and they were being punished for the theft, then taking all those rifles and reselling them on the black market may just make you the next choice for punishment. If the gang was on the wrong side of a 'dispute' with the local Yaks, then they likely wouldn't have any problem with you selling the guns, especially if you gave Yak fences first refusal.

But really, in that case, it is the wording of the job that is most important. If Mr. J says to deliver the weapons to a certain place or person, then no looting the weapons in the crates. If Mr. J says 'destroy the weapons', then you destroy the weapons. Any looting of weapons should be limited to a rifle or two each, if that. Of course, commlinks (and any associated funds or paydata), personal weapons, and other gear you find on the guards is fair game, so long as it doesn't risk the run, and isn't something easily traced. But don't risk the run trying to do 'field surgery' to get the dead guys' cyber unless there's a compelling reason to leave no bodies behind. (And there generally isn't when smoking gangers in their own place.) Now, if Mr. J says that you should make the weapons 'disappear', or really says anything other than destroying them or delivering them, you've got the leeway to dispose of them how you see fit.

Knowing the limits on acceptable loot is just as important as knowing the Rules of Engagement regarding stealth and bodycounts. A good, professional team learns these things before setting out on the run. A group of jumped up gangers and washed out corpsec does whatever they want, and usually winds up either on suicide runs, on the wrong side of a double-cross, or not getting work.