[under_score]

Howdy all.  First, let me thank the lot of you for all the inspiration, advice, and clarification I've already seen.  I've skimmed through (and read much of) the 22 pages of threads in this forum over the past week or so and found a lot of interesting and sage thoughts floating around.  So, thanks. 

I've been playing Shadowrun (only 4th edition) for about six years now and quite a bit of dnd 3.5 in that time as well (and a little bit here and there of other games, but to no great extent).  About 3 years ago, I ran my first game, which was Shadowrun.  If I recall accurately, it ran about 10 missions over about 15 sessions.  Late last year I wrapped a very long Eberron game that saw the party from 3rd level up to the mid 20s (yes, it got a bit ridiculous).  And now, I'm itching to start a new game of SR...I'll probably be hitting the first session in just over a week.  Maybe two. 

Feeling inspired by watching a lot of police procedurals and their ilk (most notably Castle, X-Files, and Angel -- also, don't tell me anything about Angel I'm only in the first season and avoiding spoilers) and having just reread Neuromancer and rewatched the Matrix, I'm set to run a crew of Lone Star detectives. 

I'm only going to have four players (I may add a 5th later in the year) because I think shadowrun can get really bogged down with a lot of players, and this game especially would make sense with a smaller group.  The action will be set in Seattle in mid-2070 in part because I don't have any of the newest books and because I like the tension of keeping the policing contract from KE, trying to hunt down the Mayan Cutter, and dealing with the gubernatorial race. 

I've asked each of my players to come up with a character who is somehow knew to the Homicide Department of Lone Star in Seattle.  They may have worked for LS in another city or in another department or they may be fresh out of LS's academy.  I want them to be new in one way or another to give the campaign a nice feel of beginning.  Since they aren't the cream of the street crop -- yet, anyway -- I've only given them 300 build points.  I'm landing them with the SINner (not criminal), Day Job (at highest) and -- thanks to reading this thread -- the Records on File (Lone Star) negative qualities with no bonus bp.  I'm also giving them the following:

Standard Issue Gear:
-Survival Knife, SR4 305
-Extendable Baton, SR4 305
-Colt Manhunter, SR4 307 OR Ruger Thunderbolt (with laser sight, not smartgun system), Arsenal 24
-Spare clips and (regular or gel) ammo as needed. 
-Armor Vest, SR4 315
-Consider yourself to have access to SIN and license verification systems at rating 4
   Running a SIN for verification will take about 6 seconds (two combat turns from
   the time you issued the request on your comm.  Running a license (vehicle,
   firearm, or other restricted item) will take several minutes. 
-Camera, SR4 325
-Facial Recognition software, rating 3, Arsenal 61
-Forensics Tools Kit, Arsenal 62
-Handcuffs (metal restraints) 2x, SR4 326
-Plastic Restraints as needed, SR4 326
-Chrysler-Nissan Patrol-1 (Patrol Car), SR4 341
-As a job benefit, you have a life-sign monitor worn over the heart.  If your life-signs go terminal or critical, a Code 00 is automatically sent to Dispatch.  You also, effectively, have a basic DogWagon contract (when off-duty) or Gold level contract (when on-duty).
-LS will also supply you with Jazz (SR 249) on a limited basis. 

I've been working on a Guide to Policing the Seattle Shadows for them, especially since one of them is rather new to Shadowrun and two of them are entirely new to the game (but none of them are new to gaming in general). 

If any of you have any thoughts or recommendations for any aspect of this campaign, I would definitely appreciate it.  I think I'm most concerned with doing justice to the world of the game, especially as should differ from a usual Shadowrun game.  I have a bunch of seed ideas for cases, but I wouldn't mind hearing any thoughts you have on those either. 

I'm also trying to figure out what relationship Lone Star would have with other Seattle corps, especially the AAAs and whether or not they would be doing corpsec for any of them (relevant should questions of extradition come up).  It seems from what I've read that most if not all AAA corps have their own entirely in-house security.  Is that accurate? 

I'm working on a karma rubric (I like to be prepared and fair as much as I can be) to use in the game.  I'd like to give them 5-10 karma per case, depending on how they do.  This is what I have so far and I would appreciate if you have any suggestions for this based on elements of the game that are likely to arise and courses of action from which they should be discouraged. 


Karma to give out:
(+2) Solved the case – a case could be made in court against one or more suspects
(+1) Apprehended said suspect(s)
(+1) Foiled additional unrelated crime during the session
(+1) Optional player nominated MVP
(+1) Uncovered more of the mystery than was strictly necessary to get a conviction
(+1) Fulfilled any additional LSSS objectives
(+1) Gain a valuable contact?
(+1) Good PR and/or improved relations with a major political figure or megacorp
(-1) Bad PR and/or worsened relations with a major political figure or megacorp
(-1) Collateral Damage – innocents killed
(-1) Collateral Damage – major property damage
(-1) Grossly amoral behavior

Thanks for reading and I appreciate any feedback. 

[JustADude]

Looks pretty good... though I'd treat the vital sign monitor as a Biomonitor mod installed in their Armor Vest. I'd also stat them up with standard "Police Grade" commlinks, for on-duty use only, with standard programs and an agent or two to take care of day to day computer stuff for them.

Also, glad to see someone making use of that old post I made.

[All4BigGuns]

I'd say ditch the idea of giving lower than base core book points.  I don't see how anyone can enjoy playing a game where the characters are that low.

[Captain Karzak]

300 build points is pathetic. It takes 160 BP to have normal human stats (a 3 in all 8 regular stats). Since you can only spend 1/2 your BP on attributes this means you need to give them at least 320 build points. Unless you intend for them to be less capable than commoners.

How are you going to pay the players? Magically active characters benefit moderately from nuYen and benefit HUGELY from karma. Mundane characters benefit HUGELY from nuYen and moderately from Karma.If your players are detectives on a [small] salary, they will either have to be SUPER-corrupt to be able to afford to get better 'ware, or all magically active characters, who only need to obsess over Karma.

As a rule of thumb, what we are taught by veteran players is that for every point of karma you award, you should pay out approx 2,500 nuYen. Some people feel the ration should be 1 Karma : 5,000 nuYen. Obviously it's not an exact science, but have to understand the consequences of tanking this ratio, or putting it through the roof.

How does their status as lawmen affect what weapons they are authorized to carry? For example, if they are going into a very dangerous neighborhood will they be issued rational gear by their superiors? IE stuff like Swat Armor and rifles?

Why on earth would they ever be issued gel rounds instead of SnS?

Why give them a choice between a Colt Manhunter [which is garbage] and a Ruger Thunderbolt [which is one of the best pistols]? Do you just want a chance to point and laugh at the players who haven't mastered the system yet and therefore made the wrong choice?

All Megacorps have extraterritoriality - they are best thought of not as commercial entities, but rather as sovereign nations - and Lonestar is not permitted to operate on their premises without that corps explicit permission. Shadowrunners often evade the law by fleeing from "country" to "country." Lonestar hates this, but is powerless to do anything about it. The Star can try to negotiate extradition, and if the Mega has no vested interest, it may choose to play ball and let the extradition go forth.

[All4BigGuns]

300 build points is pathetic. It takes 160 BP to have normal human stats (a 3 in all 8 regular stats). Since you can only spend 1/2 your BP on attributes this means you need to give them at least 320 build points. Unless you intend for them to be less capable than commoners.

How are you going to pay the players? Magically active characters benefit moderately from nuYen and benefit HUGELY from karma. Mundane characters benefit HUGELY from nuYen and moderately from Karma.If your players are detectives on a [small] salary, they will either have to be SUPER-corrupt to be able to afford to get better 'ware, or all magically active characters, who only need to obsess over Karma.

As a rule of thumb, what we are taught by veteran players is that for every point of karma you award, you should pay out approx 2,500 nuYen. Some people feel the ration should be 1 Karma : 5,000 nuYen. Obviously it's not an exact science, but have to understand the consequences of tanking this ratio, or putting it through the roof.

How does their status as lawmen affect what weapons they are authorized to carry? For example, if they are going into a very dangerous neighborhood will they be issued rational gear by their superiors? IE stuff like Swat Armor and rifles?

Why on earth would they ever be issued gel rounds instead of SnS?

Why give them a choice between a Colt Manhunter [which is garbage] and a Ruger Thunderbolt [which is one of the best pistols]? Do you just want a chance to point and laugh at the players who haven't mastered the system yet and therefore made the wrong choice?

All Megacorps have extraterritoriality - they are best thought of not as commercial entities, but rather as sovereign nations - and Lonestar is not permitted to operate on their premises without that corps explicit permission. Shadowrunners often evade the law by fleeing from "country" to "country." Lonestar hates this, but is powerless to do anything about it. The Star can try to negotiate extradition, and if the Mega has no vested interest, it may choose to play ball and let the extradition go forth.

On the note of nuyen paid, my view is that each job should provide each character enough to pay for at least one month of a Middle lifestyle. Granted, this is based on the standard type of game.

[Captain Karzak]

On the note of nuyen paid, my view is that each job should provide each character enough to pay for at least one month of a Middle lifestyle. Granted, this is based on the standard type of game.

If by job in a "standard type of game", you mean a Shadowrun, then I strenuously disagree. But that's not important.

What is important is that there be some kind of balance between the rate at which nuYen is paid out, and the rate at which Karma is paid out. Because depending on how skewed this ratio gets, some types of characters will essentially experience no growth, while others will rapidly achieve grand ultimate power.

If the OP intends to pay his players something like 3,000 a month as salary - and that is supposed to be their character's main source of remuneration, then anyone who is not a mage is super screwed. Now I personally play a Pixie Mystic Adapt and I'm happy as a lark about it. I LOVE Magicrun. So if that's how the OP want's to run it, then far be it from me to cast the first stone. I just think he should be upfront about it with his/her players.

[under_score]

I'd also stat them up with standard "Police Grade" commlinks, for on-duty use only, with standard programs and an agent or two to take care of day to day computer stuff for them.

I originally had included some medium grade commlinks as well but wasn't sure if that made sense or not.  At your recommendation, I think I will add that back in. 

Also, glad to see someone making use of that old post I made.

Of course. 

300 build points is pathetic. It takes 160 BP to have normal human stats (a 3 in all 8 regular stats). Since you can only spend 1/2 your BP on attributes this means you need to give them at least 320 build points. Unless you intend for them to be less capable than commoners.

I spent a fair time debating between 300 and 350.  Coming off an epic level dnd game and a short-lived superhero game after that, I really want to run something that at least starts at a gritty, dangerous street level.  Yes, I know that I can make things plenty dangerous for my players by adequately pumping up the opposition and by implementing good tactics.  But it also makes sense (to me, anyway) that entry level detectives would not be as individually powerful as mildly-seasoned shadowrunners (my understanding of the usual 400 bp).  This game will also probably focus more on investigation, following leads, rp, etc than combat -- though I plan to have one or two combats per case (if even just a car chase or random crime in progress type thing). 

As far as why 300 specifically?  The Lone Star patrol squad in the regular 4th edition book works out to a little under 250 build points (not counting gear -- of which I am giving a hefty amount to they players for free).  I figured 300 would be enough of a step up from that to represent detectives. 

Your math does bring up a good point on attributes, however.  I hadn't thought too much about the half bp limit.  I will almost certainly lift that, as it would make sense that while they may not be as skilled or have as many contacts, they will have solid (though not superhuman) attributes. 

I'll reconsider 300 vs 350 bp.  Any other thoughts on that from folks? 

How are you going to pay the players? Magically active characters benefit moderately from nuYen and benefit HUGELY from karma. Mundane characters benefit HUGELY from nuYen and moderately from Karma.If your players are detectives on a [small] salary, they will either have to be SUPER-corrupt to be able to afford to get better 'ware, or all magically active characters, who only need to obsess over Karma.

As a rule of thumb, what we are taught by veteran players is that for every point of karma you award, you should pay out approx 2,500 nuYen. Some people feel the ration should be 1 Karma : 5,000 nuYen. Obviously it's not an exact science, but have to understand the consequences of tanking this ratio, or putting it through the roof.

Well, for one thing, I figure that altered ratio will, in the short term, compensate for the lower amount of build points.  I want them to have to struggle to make ends meet.  They are moderately well employed people in division that already spends more than it makes.  At the starting salary I'm giving them with day job (5k / month), that's enough for middle lifestyle right there (as good or better than we generally see cop characters get on the tele).  When they start to break bigger cases, I'll probably give them a raise of some sort. 

Since I don't expect any of them to play dedicated hackers (that isn't their job) or to have tons of 'ware (at least not yet), I think karma will be more immediately important to them. 

But I do like that they'll be shorter on cash than they want to be.  That should facilitate corruption (bribes, selling evidence on the black market, etc) when it becomes available and test the moral fiber of the characters. 

I also expect to reward them with contacts (and favors) etc to keep things interesting.  Also, with bigger cases, they may be rewarded be relevant clients directly. 

How does their status as lawmen affect what weapons they are authorized to carry? For example, if they are going into a very dangerous neighborhood will they be issued rational gear by their superiors? IE stuff like Swat Armor and rifles?

I've been figuring they'd certainly be allowed to carry anything for which they have a legal license (and are welcome to carry things illegally if they can get away with it) in addition to their standard issue gear.  They will be welcome to requisition special gear, but they aren't SWAT or a Fast Response Team.  I was considering some manner of assault rifle being standard issue, but hadn't yet given it too much thought. 

Why on earth would they ever be issued gel rounds instead of SnS?

I'm sorry, I don't know what SnS rounds are.  Generally, I figured gel rounds would be useful for less lethal apprehension of targets. 

Why give them a choice between a Colt Manhunter [which is garbage] and a Ruger Thunderbolt [which is one of the best pistols]? Do you just want a chance to point and laugh at the players who haven't mastered the system yet and therefore made the wrong choice?

The original reason for the choice was the Thunderbolt (which is a great weapon and was developed by and for LS) only operates in BF -- if I am mistaken that BF weapons can't also operate in SA, please let me know. 

In reading through the 2nd edition Lone Star book, I did see that FRT troopers typically wield either a Manhunter or a Thunderbolt.  I found that a pleasant happenstance.  Though, in looking back at that right now, I see that squad patrols would definitely have combat shotguns and some heavy armor.  I'll probably add something along those lines to the standard issue gear. 

All Megacorps have extraterritoriality - they are best thought of not as commercial entities, but rather as sovereign nations - and Lonestar is not permitted to operate on their premises without that corps explicit permission. Shadowrunners often evade the law by fleeing from "country" to "country." Lonestar hates this, but is powerless to do anything about it. The Star can try to negotiate extradition, and if the Mega has no vested interest, it may choose to play ball and let the extradition go forth.

This much, at least, I knew.  I'm just wondering if any of the megacorps contract LS for corpsec or otherwise have particularly good working relationships.  I'm sure I could just decide that some do or that none do, but I'd like to keep things consistent with the game world. 

On the note of nuyen paid, my view is that each job should provide each character enough to pay for at least one month of a Middle lifestyle. Granted, this is based on the standard type of game.

Well, I'm expecting I'll give them 3-4 cases a month (the rest of their paid time being paperwork and meetings and such like that).  So, with their straight salary (not counting bribes, other corruption opportunities, rewards from big clients, etc), they'd be making 1/3 to 1/4 of that. 

If the OP intends to pay his players something like 3,000 a month as salary - and that is supposed to be their character's main source of remuneration, then anyone who is not a mage is super screwed. Now I personally play a Pixie Mystic Adapt and I'm happy as a lark about it. I LOVE Magicrun. So if that's how the OP want's to run it, then far be it from me to cast the first stone. I just think he should be upfront about it with his/her players.

That is certainly my intent.  Heck, if anything, I'll probably be giving them more than they're expecting since I haven't said anything about raises, bonuses, and secondary rewards.  I figure that should make random extra monies (and bribes) that much more tantalizing. 

[under_score]

Another question I have for people: how do you suggest I handle the plethora of cameras and sensors throughout Seattle?  I'm sure LS would have immediate access to any sensors owned by the city and that they would have their own network operating in public areas.  I suppose for these things, I should mostly just provide the PCs with info that the first on the scene cops and forensics crews have discovered.  Or should I make the PCs have to work for this evidence themselves?  There would be plenty of digital eyes out there belonging to other corps and private individuals.  Should I play this stuff up or let it ride more in the background?  Should I let this be a regular source of leads or only occasionally?  Thoughts? 

[JustADude]

I'm sorry, I don't know what SnS rounds are.  Generally, I figured gel rounds would be useful for less lethal apprehension of targets. 

The original reason for the choice was the Thunderbolt (which is a great weapon and was developed by and for LS) only operates in BF -- if I am mistaken that BF weapons can't also operate in SA, please let me know.

SnS = Stick-and-Shock. Essentially replaces the gun's normal damage with a sticky-taser bullet that does 6S DV -Half AP, staged up normally by hits, regardless of what it's fired from. Far better than gel rounds for Less Lethal takedowns.

Also, the Thunderbolt does only fire in BF, however that isn't really a big issue, since it still uses the Pistol skill. The only downsides are the short "lifespan" of the clip, and the recoil on the second burst, which is only an issue if they fire it twice in one IP... and I might suggest allowing them to "requisition" something like a gas-vent accessory (only if they think to ask, of course) to neutralize that as well.

Another question I have for people: how do you suggest I handle the plethora of cameras and sensors throughout Seattle?  I'm sure LS would have immediate access to any sensors owned by the city and that they would have their own network operating in public areas.  I suppose for these things, I should mostly just provide the PCs with info that the first on the scene cops and forensics crews have discovered.  Or should I make the PCs have to work for this evidence themselves?  There would be plenty of digital eyes out there belonging to other corps and private individuals.  Should I play this stuff up or let it ride more in the background?  Should I let this be a regular source of leads or only occasionally?  Thoughts? 

I'd give them most information for free, after a suitable delay for the "Digital Forensics" department, or whatever you want to call it, to process the information. Consider this stuff your "Deus Ex Machina" for dropping hints in the players' laps, and use it however you want. Just remember, the more canny and streetwise the opposition, the more likely they are to erase the feeds, and the really good ones would plant false images to cover the gap.

[CitizenJoe]

This probably doesn't matter in most cases, but Lone Star requires every employee to be proficient with a hand gun. 

Re: Manhunter vs. Thunderbolt.  The Thunderbolt gets its power from the fact that it is firing three rounds at once.  Essentially burst fire.  These are special rounds that are sequentially stacked caseless rounds.  I know many of you want to just alphabet soup that ammo, but it really makes my brain hurt to think about what you're trying to do.  So, for the vanilla manhunter vs. thunderbolt, the Thunderbolt wins hands down.  But when you get into stock, easy access alternative ammo, the Manhunter outshines the Thunderbolt.

[under_score]

SnS = Stick-and-Shock. Essentially replaces the gun's normal damage with a sticky-taser bullet that does 6S DV -Half AP, staged up normally by hits, regardless of what it's fired from. Far better than gel rounds for Less Lethal takedowns.

Also, the Thunderbolt does only fire in BF, however that isn't really a big issue, since it still uses the Pistol skill. The only downsides are the short "lifespan" of the clip, and the recoil on the second burst, which is only an issue if they fire it twice in one IP... and I might suggest allowing them to "requisition" something like a gas-vent accessory (only if they think to ask, of course) to neutralize that as well.

Ah, I see this ammo now.  Clearly better, yes.  But considering the cost difference, I figure LS would only supply gel rounds as a rule.  Players would be more than welcome to buy these on their own or requisition them if they think they're going up against something particularly dangerous. 

After they've been issued their guns, I'd have no problem with them seeking to modify them.  I think I'll still give them the choice of the Manhunter though, just as a reasonable, if inferior, alternative. 

I'd give them most information for free, after a suitable delay for the "Digital Forensics" department, or whatever you want to call it, to process the information. Consider this stuff your "Deus Ex Machina" for dropping hints in the players' laps, and use it however you want. Just remember, the more canny and streetwise the opposition, the more likely they are to erase the feeds, and the really good ones would plant false images to cover the gap.

Sounds sage to me.  Since I won't be putting the PCs up against actual runners all the time (certainly not as they're still getting their feet wet), I'll try to have decent reasons/scenarios that keep these leads from being to solid every time.  If someone is murdered in a bathroom, won't be a video of the event (just people going in and out).  If someone is murdered by a drone or summoned spirit, you still need to figure out who was controlling it. 

This probably doesn't matter in most cases, but Lone Star requires every employee to be proficient with a hand gun. 

I basically told my characters that they ought to be proficient in pistols (and perhaps all firearms) for the logic of the campaign (though if anyone builds a mage with some combat spells, I would consider that an adequate alternative).

[Halancar]

Regarding the initial BP: the lower you put the bar, the more you encourage your characters to become one-dimensional since they'll tend to ditch everything secondary to their main area of focus. So you'll end up with a bunch of 1's in attributes and a handful of middle-to-high skills for each character, instead of something balanced. Of course, some people don't need any help to do it anyway, but that's a separate issue 

Personally, I'd give them 350 (given how much gear you already give them and the lessened need for contacts) but ask them to make starting cops and emphasize you don't want to see any combat monster or overpowered character. Be sure to reject the worst offenders with a 'flunked the physical' or 'got assigned straight to SWAT, nice NPC, please start again' if you need to drive the point home.

By the way, the Lone Star Police Squad Member in SR4A may come up at a measly 250 BP, but that's 200 BP of attributes and only the skills that are relevant when the average runner encounters him: 3 combat skills and perception. Realistically he's bound to have more skills (from the athletics group, the influence group, and pilot ground vehicle, for starters), they just didn't bother to flesh him out.

[CitizenJoe]

Figure out what the bare minimums are for getting in (making it through police academy) that includes access to equipment, attributes and skills.  Everyone starts with that, then give them additional build points on top of that.

In theory, someone could just BARELY make it in based solely on their contacts (daddy is the mayor or something).

Also figure out what is required for various ranks or jobs, like detective.

[farothel]

I would also supply them with a shotgun or SMG of some kind.  Most police forces have one shotgun in the patrol car, just in case.  And often they have SMGs at the station for those times they need some heavier firepower.

[All4BigGuns]

To be honest, considering everything the Lone Star officer would need in the way of skills to do his job properly, and what he'd need in the way of gear other than what you're giving to survive those he's supposed to apprehend, it would be wiser by far to give your players a full 500 at least.