[CanRay]

Given how common violence is in the world, I'm suprised that handgun training isn't part of your everyday schooling in SR. After all, you've gotta train the kids how to not hurt themselves when they find a gun lying in the street every other day.

*Cough*

[JustADude]

Given how common violence is in the world, I'm suprised that handgun training isn't part of your everyday schooling in SR. After all, you've gotta train the kids how to not hurt themselves when they find a gun lying in the street every other day.

*Cough*

Ooooh, score! Gonna have to use that, sometime.

[CanRay]

It gets better when the fiction starts.  Speaking of, I need to poke the author with a stick again.

[Crimsondude]

Oh, bother. The section Military Security is Corp Shadowfiles, pp.112-13.

Currently, no corporation fields more than a full regiment of military forces. In almost all instances, the battalion and larger units are combined-arms forces incorporating air, ground, sea, and possible space elements.

Wow.

It's just all over the place. That's all there is to it. It'd be interesting to tackle, but you could say that about a lot of things.

[JustADude]

Oh, bother. The section Military Security is Corp Shadowfiles, pp.112-13.

Currently, no corporation fields more than a full regiment of military forces. In almost all instances, the battalion and larger units are combined-arms forces incorporating air, ground, sea, and possible space elements.

Wow.

It's just all over the place. That's all there is to it. It'd be interesting to tackle, but you could say that about a lot of things.

I fall back on the idea that this doesn't count "Security Guards", guys who have regular stations among the "Civilians", since otherwise Ares couldn't possibly own Knight Errant, and also doesn't include support staff, who would be part of other divisions of the company. Continuing with Ares, that would mean that the "Light Regiment" would be like a smaller version of the grunts in the USMC*, 3000-ish metahumans whose job is to stay in shape and sit on their asses until the excrement hits the spinny thing.

*Using that 20:1 ratio T.W.O. quoted, the USMC has just over 9000 actual soldiers after you strip away the PoGs.

EDIT: And can we please spare the tired "It's over 9000!!!" jokes?

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

There are actually a couple of organizations whose units do not match up.

Uncle Sam's Misguided Children are one of them, as every Marine -- every Marine -- is first and foremost a rifleman.  He might fly trash haulers, he might cook at the base, but when the balloon goes up, Cookie is gonna grab his M-16 and hit the beach with the rest of them.  The other thing is that except for very few places, such as Camp LeJeune, the Marine support organization is ... well, the Navy.

The Navy, on the other hand, is an odd bird, because 'who do you include as being on the sharp end?'  If it's the trigger-pullers, on a ship the size of an aircraft carrier, you're looking at a few score out of the thousands needed to run the floating city.  All the rest of them are 'supply corps' -- but they're out there, keeping the boilers going.  On the other hand, you don't typically count certain others usually based on land, but sure as hell they're warriors.  (I'm lookin' at YOU, SEALs.)  On the other hand, a naval base has a huge supply train -- but they don't service ships all at once.  Sequentially tends to be the ticket...

Anyhow.  Take ratios and numbers with a grain of salt; look to the actual 'projected force' data.

[CanRay]

"The clerks, the cooks, and the Sargent-Major's band..."

[Zilfer]

I found the taught in schools post amusing, I can already hear arguments on both sides.

1: We want to keep our kids save and have them know how to defend themselves!

2: Did you just read the news? Some 16 year old went and shot up his school yesterday, we don't need them knowing how to kill each other at such a young age!

3: 16 young? What are you some blasted Faerie? 16 in troll years is like 30 to 40. Damn well old enough, and besides didn't you hear that was a cover up? They never found the kid.

2: Your talking about Shadowrunners? What a complete myth, Cooperations and good ol' Lonestar wouldn't allow them to run amuck.

3: Yeah, and they used to say Dragon's didn't exist.

1: Good point. Got to have them able to defend themselves against shadowrunners if they show up in the office somewhere down the road in their life. Make their Corp proud.

[The Big Peat]

Given how common violence is in the world, I'm suprised that handgun training isn't part of your everyday schooling in SR. After all, you've gotta train the kids how to not hurt themselves when they find a gun lying in the street every other day.

I suppose given America's history this has a fair degree of logic.

However, like the Limey I am, I'm thinking that dystopian authoritarian bodies don't want the underlings to have the capacity to get uppity, and think how a lot of the anti-Gaddafi fighters learnt how to use AKs at school because Gaddafi said they must, and I'm thinking a fair few corps and governments would stress there is absolutely no need to learn how to use guns at all...

Also, I'm skeptical about any corporation relying on security guards for its military needs. Partially because serious military needs means internal security gets hit, which is a bad idea. Mainly because those security guards are not undertaking military training, because they're busy being security guards, and would probably get chewed up by other units who are used to warfighting.

I don't doubt that most triple As would run rotations of security guards through military units and vice versa. I can see them using the security guards in a reserve role to bring units up to strength, form new units quickly if needed and so on.

But if they're serious about being able to project forces to protect their interests then they can't be relying on them. Not unless they have 2 security guards for every one actually needed.

I suppose the line between security and soldier might blur at some of their most riskily located bases I guess, but still...

[Crash_00]

I'm on the fence about that idea too. On one hand, it allows them to keep a better image (read as more peaceful) and is seemingly cost effective.

On the other, you definitely don't want every crisis to lighten your security and security forces generally aren't as trained/equipped as military forces.

Now, to counteract that, you could have your military and "security" receive the same training and be on a rotation in order to see more active duty. To some degree this can be assisted with Knowsofts for tactics and such. I still think that security should be a "reserves" style force rather than a military asset.

As for the schools, I was taught gun safety in middle school. I learned to shoot in High School. I don't find it that weird (it was target shooting of course). Then again, it bugs the hell out of me when I see people doing stupid things (running with fingers on the trigger, clearing the chamber before dropping the clip, not checking the backstop, scoping themselves, etc.). Of course I'm from Arkansas, so it may just be a southern thing.

[CitizenJoe]

Back in post WWII era, kids would bring their hunting rifles into school with them, and show them off... and demonstrate proper gun safety.  At some point, the rules changed and they weren't allowed to bring in their guns.  Crime, violence, and disrespect for authority grew dramatically.

[Mirikon]

As with most things, how commonplace weapons are depends on where you are, and what the cultural norms are. Pretty much anywhere in North America, there's still the 'home defense' idea in our psyche from the frontier days, where the two most important things a man could have were a gun and a horse. And if you didn't have a horse, a gun could get that for you.

In England, there's a long bias against private citizens owning guns, so it makes sense that in the world of SR there aren't many guns in London. In Japan, likewise, they don't have that frontier mindset, which means guns are easier to keep out of the hands of the common man. However, bladed weapons are a big thing in Japan, and have been since the days of the samurai. So this leads to the concept that cops may not bat an eye if you are openly wearing a katana (unless you're a gaijin), but they're going to clamp down hard on even that little holdout you have in your pocket.

[JustADude]

So this leads to the concept that cops may not bat an eye if you are openly wearing a katana (unless you're a gaijin), but they're going to clamp down hard on even that little holdout you have in your pocket.

And, of course, nobody EVER looks twice at the adept wearing Hardliner Gloves... until he Sub-Zero punches someone and shatters them like a meatsicle.

[CanRay]

Depends on the culture of the country/corp.  Lone Star trains EVERYONE in firearms, and I'd be Ares does as well.

Aztechnology, OTOH, wants good little drugged sheeple.

Horizon probably preaches that violence is the last solution of the stupid or the desperate.

Evo probably advises you to be the weapon, as demonstrated by their Transhumanism.

The UCAS probably thinks firearms should only be in the hands of the military, and security forces (Oh, and maybe the police as well.).

The CAS likely has a "Bring yer huntin' rifle ta school." day. 

[Wakshaani]

Standing military assets are tricky things. They have a large support cost when idle, and when active, that cost goes way, way higher. They're not that useful for most corps, either, since actual security forces handle the defense of corporate areas... why would, say, MCT need a ten thousand strong force on hand? Who are they going to occupy?

No, most corps have a tiny military force as mentioned, for those rare times when they have to pave something. What's that? Your factory in Somalia has been nationalized by some warlord with a couple hundred drugged-up teens with AK-97s? Yeah, call out the Mitsuhama 1st and remind his neighbors why this was a Bad Idea. The average corp simply isn't going to roll into, say, Spain, and claim it in the name of profit.

This means that mercenary outfits are the way to go. You can bet that your MET and such have a far larger number of on-hand bodies, ready to rent out for the conflict dejour. These guys allow the corps to have military assets when needed, but when NOT needed, they don't get saddled with the peacetime upkeep cost.

It's related to why they don't buy cities, really ... who want sto bleed money like that? Let the government deal with people who want potholes filled and are mad about their neighbor playing music too loud ... the corps go where the money is.