[ZeConster]

The problem here isn't not being able to dodge, it's not being able to flee the blast radius because of the way turns work.

[Michael Chandra]

By the way, even if with an explosion you could get a dodge test to make distance, while that reduces damage of grenades, it wouldn't reduce damage against an elemental area spell unless you score enough hits to clear the spell radius altogether. So unless the area rules are significantly errata'd, a mere dodge test won't be enough.

[Shamie]

The fact that it's impossible to avoid wireless grenades in any way, no matter whether you have 3 or 30 dodge dice, whether you are standing still or zigzagging at 60 km/h, meaning a short burst from a grenade launcher will auto-kill everyone no matter what?

Edit: Don't get me wrong, I love lethal grenades. But there's definitely some flaws with them right now. Adding dodging abilities and making their overlap less crazy would solve that perfectly while keeping them dangerous as hell as they should be.

Thank you!  This is more or less exactly how I feel!  I am not sure if grenades were this broken in 4th and just did not notice it because everything was broken in 4th or if they only gained the ability to have same turn detonation in 5th but either way if you use the grenade launcher which can do short bursts and with wireless grenades, that 24P -4AP does as much damage as a cruise missile did in 4th edition if memory serves and will obliterate all but the toughest of troll sand even they will have to spend edge to soak enough of it to stay standing.

yes, they were. I remember running back in business and using the ghost gator. He didnt last one phase. One granade on a cave and BAM! he was gone.

You're right, grenades are clearly unfair. We should reinvent these explosives to cause less harm to people caught in the blasts or at least be easier to avoid. It's completely ridiculous that a soldier can just toss a grenade into a building and everybody inside basically just dies or gets horribly injured. So unbalancing!

If you didn't catch the sarcasm, my point is, grenades are supposed to be ridiculously lethal, because that's just reality. You toss an explosive at somebody and that guy is basically screwed. Nerfing them or making it super easy to avoid damage is just unrealistic.

But it's also unrealistic for you to be able to just toss a grenade in a street fight and have nobody give a shit. Nobody likes being blown up, so the setting stepping in and punishing you for your lack of discretion IS the intended balancing factor.

So in conclusion: Not a bug, working as intended. Will not fix.

well good for you not fixing that one... i guess. Its a matter of personal taste for games more than anything else. Its game balance vs realism. Like electricity rules in 4th they were broken but realistic.

If you preffer realism then the granades work as intended. I preffer game balance so i just forbbid granades from the game until i can come out with a better solution.

Neither approach is bad.

[All4BigGuns]

yes, they were. I remember running back in business and using the ghost gator. He didnt last one phase. One granade on a cave and BAM! he was gone.

And? It sounds like your players used a good strategy and tactic. That the opponent was killed quickly is the reward for that. Do you think they should have just charged guns blazing into the cave and potentially gotten themselves killed?

[Shamie]

yes, they were. I remember running back in business and using the ghost gator. He didnt last one phase. One granade on a cave and BAM! he was gone.

And? It sounds like your players used a good strategy and tactic. That the opponent was killed quickly is the reward for that. Do you think they should have just charged guns blazing into the cave and potentially gotten themselves killed?

what strategy? Shoot it with a granade launcher? BTW they were all inside the cave

What i think is that a critter who is suppose to up the difficulty (why is in the pushing the envelope section) wich is a urban legend in the setting should last more than one attack. IMO grandes in 4th are broken, realistic but broken is that your cup of tea wonderfull, but is not mine.

[All4BigGuns]

Umm...I believe the 'Pushing the Envelope' is more to add extra stuff to the run for those who have more time than someone running the Mission at a convention, not necessarily to "increase the difficulty".

[ZeConster]

Umm...I believe the 'Pushing the Envelope' is more to add extra stuff to the run for those who have more time than someone running the Mission at a convention, not necessarily to "increase the difficulty".

Pretty much this. Heck, in one (unofficial) Mission, we were able to use the 'Pushing the Envelope' bit (the politician's maid was hosting a party while he was gone) to avoid the motion sensors we would've had to deal with otherwise, essentially making things easier.

[Shade]

It weird to me to see how many people use heavily or even exclusively catalyst generated missions. I think I've ran 2 prefab game sessions in my entire life.

[All4BigGuns]

It weird to me to see how many people use heavily or even exclusively catalyst generated missions. I think I've ran 2 prefab game sessions in my entire life.

I have looked at some, but I really only do "off the cuff".

[Crunch]

I stopped running modules some time around Temple of Elemental Evil.

I do both off the cuff and home brewed modules.

[Lysanderz]

I read a lot about tactics, I read a lot about grenades. Makes me wanna gm for them because I'm someone who loves to put the time in and build something challenging.

Perhaps perhaps....

Anywho: glad to see Grenades taken realistically in SR for a change. For those of you who are screaming "Broken" lets look back to 3rd when using RAW and you could hold a live grenade in your mouth and it STILL not fully kill you. I found 4th to be closer to the money, 5th is my salvation. When a person takes a grenade even at 6-7m you're talking burst eardrums, lack of equilibrium, potential shrapnel damage, sympathetic explosions, and a concussion wave that will knock you on your ass.

Yeah, that sounds like 16P to me.

Want more dodging options? House rule it and move on.

If you throw grenades in my game, remember that the opposition doesn't like having their friends killed and police only put up with explosions in the barrens for so long. You make it seem like more of a warzone than it is? Expect a full fledged firewatch team up your ass jack. Toot sweet.

As a rule for when I'm a player, the team agrees if anyone brings HE or Frag grenades on a mission that the team didn't authorize, that character never get hired again. Sorry, but that shit is just too obvious and attracts too much attention. Now if the opposition is carrying them and you get your hands on one.....

[Michael Chandra]

Want more dodging options?

Because there are none. I can be running at 80 km an hour with 30 dodge dice, I can be driving at 500 km an hour, and it´s still a mere Heavy Weapons(3) Test to instahit me with 24P.

If I'm missing any options aside from Jammers and Hackers, please let me know.

P.S. The damage is FINE. That isn't the problem here.

[gfrobbin84]

Uh guys I thought this thread was about your experiences as GMs in 5th edition not just a continuation of the OMG grenades are OP thread which already exist for that very purpose.  As someone who is about to start GMing with 5th ed I would enjoy some more on topic discussion in this thread and will post some once I start GMing.

[ambarmetta]

Good to hear, Gfrobbin82

[Csjarrat]

had a bit of a play with 5e so far and it seems ok. bit worried about hardcore TM's and cyberslingers but my first attempts at cyber combat went fine. i find cyber combat a bit static though, the involved parties just standing there in cyberspace slinging data spikes at each other until they go down.
meat combat is much more dynamic, running and ducking for cover, grenades, different fire modes etc
any tips on sprucing it up?