[Marcus]

Build Notes-
Conceptually I'm aiming for a tech build that will grow like a magic build. Something able to take maximum advantage of Cash and karma. It will of course still suffer from essence limitation, upside is slow but progressive recover of resonance lost too cyberware, as it advances. 

That all said there are couple rules questions that need to be considered:

What are the effects of COMPLEX FORM: OVERDRIVE on Limbs/Enhancements? It fairly easy to assume you can't go above +4, but are there any other limitations in effect?

When we have multiple attributes involved, What is valid, can they all be enhanced, I would assume separate  rolls? Is armor a valid overdrive target?

Device within Capacity, are they valid targets for Overdrive?

Specialization for hardware, what's specific enough?

This example and probably any real version of this is going end up leaning super hard on qualities in creation. Taking a resonance stream at creation is actually disadvantageous, as is taking martial arts given the builds dependency on qualities. We should look at the language of the starting quality limits and starting karma expenditures.

Complex form over drive Pool, Give, that there is no point in getting greater then +4, the wording is half hit round up get added. we need 6.5 hits for +4, So something basically 19 dice to cap for overdrive. But that is probably well over cap for many applications. '

So thoughts? Concerns?

The example while clear is not very useful in pratical terms, as using the power implanted ware is not really a great plan.

Street Name:
Character Name:
Build: Sum to 10 Resources 1 (50k) Attributes 4 (24) Skills 2 (28/2) Race 1 (Human 3)  TM 2 (Resonance) 3
Concept:

Attributes- (24)      Limits-      CM-
B   3         Mental       Physical 11
A   2         Physical       Stun 11
S   2         Social       Overflow 5
R   5
L   4          Derived-         
I   6         Composure
W   5          Judge Intent
C   5         Lift/Carry
Essence 4         Memory
Edge   2
Resonance 4
Initiative 11+1D6
Matrix Initiative 10+4D6

Combat Pools-

                  
Qualities- -23/+25 (-27 karma)         Complex Form
Golden Screwdriver (Cyberlegs) (-8)       Overclock Cyberware
Trust Lore not Data (-5)            Infusion of Matrix Attribute (Sleaze)
Data Anomaly (-3)
One with the Matrix (-2)
Candle in the Dark (-5)
Code of Honor (+15)
Stolen Gear (+10) (100k)
Resonance Stream (Cyberadept) (-20 karma)
Martial Art Style (TAE KWON DO) (-7) (Kick)    
Paragon (Soldier) (Free)

Skills- 28/2
Unarmed (TAE KWON DO)
Software
Hardware (Cyberlimbs)
Hacking (Hack on The Fly)
Perception
Etiquette


Knowledge Skills- (20)         Languages- ()

Cyberware- (Cash in k units) (Essence) [Capacity]
Customized Optimized Obvious Full Cyberleg (104k)(E-2.0) [TBD] (Stolen)

Totals: (4k) (TBD

Gear-
Ammunition-
            
Armor-
Sleeping Tiger Suit (Armor 13) (17.6)
   (Custom Fit, Holster, Newest Model, Ruthenium Polymer Coating (Rating 3))
Modifications: Non-Conductive [6], Auto-Injector (Combat Drug) [2], Biomonitor [1], AR Gloves [1]
Mirrored Sunglasses Rating 4 (2.4)
Modifications: Vision Enhancement [4]
Deck-

Programs-

Commlinks-

ID’s-
Fake Sin Rating 4 (10) (Name)       Fake Sins Rating 2 (5) (Name)
   PI license Rating 4 (.         PI license Rating 2 (.4)
   Augmentation License Rating 4 (.      Augmentation License Rating 2 (.4)
                     
Vehicle-

Medium Lifestyle
Total: 

Contacts- (15)


Karma-
Stolen Gear (+2) (100k)
Resonance Stream (Cyberadept) (-20 karma)
Martial Art Style (TAE KWON DO) (-7) (Kick)    

[Tarislar]

What is "Stolen Ware" ?

I have not seen this before.

[Marcus]

It's a negative quality in No Future.

Oops Miss typed that one:
STOLEN GEAR
(NEGATIVE QUALITY)
BONUS: 1 TO 20 KARMA
(177 No Future)

[DigitalZombie]

I think you can go above +4 with overdrive.
As to what it can buff... Im not sure. Maybe 1 device, meaning both its agility and strength rating at the same time... not sure about capacity stuff inside it.

[Tarislar]

It's a negative quality in No Future.

Oops Miss typed that one:
STOLEN GEAR
(NEGATIVE QUALITY)
BONUS: 1 TO 20 KARMA
(177 No Future)

So what is the downside to this quality?
I think it might be just what I need to finish off a character that I've been working on that is having a hard time fitting the tech into $450K
Having the gear be stolen actually fits completely into his background too, so this might be a great way to finish off the stats.

[fseperent]

Downside is people coming after your hoop for the bounty.
Minimum bounty of 25k.
Max of 200K.

[Hobbes]

Overdrive can exceed the +4 Limit, I think the Overdrive rules explicitly state that you go past any 'ware limits until it breaks.

The main drawback of Stolen Gear is that you're playing with a group of Criminal Mercenaries who kidnap and murder for Money.  This character is basically a 100k Nuyen Pinata for them.  Hope the rest of the team really, really likes you  :  )

Resonance Streams count towards your starting Positive Quality limit of 25.  GM will have to handwaive or you'll need to pick it up post chargen. 

I don't see what this character does other than Kick stuff with a Cyberleg?  You don't have Computer or Electronic Warfare so you can't really hack stuff.  No Compiling or Registering, which are kinda huge for a Technomancer.  And I don't see Social or Legwork (Ha!) skills other than Etiquette? 

You're going to have to really like kicking stuff for a very long time.   

[Marcus]

+4 is the maximum boost rule and as far as i know that's was errata'ed as a meta limit to keep stuff from getting too crazy.

Yeah the skill list is still a work in progress, I don't intended for it to be super boss hacking, just competent. .

I also looked at a shooter variant which included some other ware. But legs were easier to deal with and had the greatest capacity to essence ratio that would still lead down the path of effectiveness.

But as i proceeded in development  there were to many questions concerning overdrive, I didn't want go further until i had a better idea what was would work. Part of my concern, is the cyberadept bonus includes +2 to power that effect cyberware, does that mean anything that can target a device? Or specifically cyberware?

As to qualities, the logic would camp the karma points and drop them in session one depending on how a GM felt about that idea. 20 quality points in a builds that massively quality dependent is an issue. But I certainly agree that's  not really what is intended.


I certainly agree stolen gear is dangerous, it just opened up some doors in this case, so I gave it a go

[Tarislar]

Thanks for the info on Stolen Gear.

It kind of works for the character I'm working on which is he escaped from a corp research facility & they want him back.

[DigitalZombie]

 Part of my concern, is the cyberadept bonus includes +2 to power that effect cyberware, does that mean anything that can target a device? Or specifically cyberware?

I think it means if you use puppeteer on a drone its normal fading level. If you use it on a wirelessly enabled cyberarm then its with -2.


In the fluff section Clockwork mentions a cyberadept capable of seeing people walking around on the moon, thanks to overdriving his cybereyes. This leads me to believe that its possible to overdrive capacity items in cyberlimbs, eyes and ears etc. (Even though it was just a fluff blurb).

I would play it like this: use overdrive on either the cyberlimb itself (buffing its agi + strenght) , or to any 1 device taking up capacity inside.



Btw. Yeah you are correct. Overdrive would still be Limited by the +4 attribute max. But certain stuff breaks that for instance  combining reaction enhancers and wired reflexes wirelessly, or cyberlimbs.

You dont have focused concentration which would mean you would take a -2 penalty sustaining overdrive.
+ your sleaze attribute is already pretty good, you would have to thread infusion of sleaze at pl 6 on yourself.

Remember the free skillpoints from technomancers. You could go skills E, and technomancer A ( you go from 28/2 to 18 + 5×3 technoskillz) but also gain a bunch og complex forms).

[Marcus]

Btw. Yeah you are correct. Overdrive would still be Limited by the +4 attribute max. But certain stuff breaks that for instance  combining reaction enhancers and wired reflexes wirelessly, or cyberlimbs.

I am aware of this what's in bold and that further that overdrive break normal caps. But you put those two facts together and things start getting dangerous. So for the sake of people not abusing this concept to Nth degree, I'm assuming and pushing that +4 is max. After all +4 is solid bonus and we really don't want to this style of build running amok with  Agi and Str in high teens.

[PiXeL01]

Nothing can break the +4 limit on attributes. Even if Wired Reflexes and Reaction enhancers stack the bar is set at +4. No combination of drugs, implants, and magic can break this hard cap, just like the +5d6 on initiative is unbreakable.

[Hobbes]

IMO there are easier and far more abusive things than a Technomancer with a temporary 11 or 12 Agility Cyberlimb.  YMMV.

If you want Overdrive to be used by TMs on other PCs you've got to let it work as written and just keep on boosting past the 'wares limits.  Because the 'ware can break after you do this.  Why would you let your Cyberlimb/Wired Reflexes/Movebywire/whatever break for a temporary +1 or +2?

Overdive has limited availability, Technomancers with one of two Streams that have either gotten a Greater Form Sprite or invested in an Additional Complex Form.  And limited Application (for Augmentations anyway), Move By Wire, Wired Reflexes, Cyberlimbs, Reaction Enhancers, Cybersenses, Datajack plus I suppose....?  Not a lot else off the top of my head.   

[DigitalZombie]

Nothing can break the +4 limit on attributes. Even if Wired Reflexes and Reaction enhancers stack the bar is set at +4.

True in almost all cases. CRB og 455 under the description of reaction enhancers and wired reflexes it is stated that these 2 dont stack when not wirelessly connected. Yet with wireless on they may break the limit of +4.

If you want Overdrive to be used by TMs on other PCs you've got to let it work as written and just keep on boosting past the 'wares limits.

Overdrive can only be used on cyberware currently installed in the cyberadept.

While the cyberware may be boosted to any limit, nothing states that it may break the +4 attribute or 5d6 initiative cap.
So you could still buff your antennas to rating 6, or your dermal armour even. But not muscle replacements above +4.

You could buff the #%$@ out of MBW though.
Say a MBW buffed to rating 6 would grant you +4 reaction( because of the hardcap)  + 18 initiative and +1d6 initiative. And functioning as a rating 12 skillwire system.  (Good luck finding those non-existant activesofts at rating 12 ).

[Marcus]

At +4 this build would be 14, an elf would be 15.
1 skill and a spec and you hit 18 dice. With skill wire 20 is in easy reach. This can will get a little more complex when you keep in mind a cyberskull is a limb.

The mechanic that prevents this, is mitigatable on limbs. This example with golden screw drive and a recent skill will fix legs with little issue.  Sure it won't work as well on other pieces. But there's a lot thing you can put into 20 capacity. 

Now sure you can't do this over the top with init ware. But it something to be aware off.

Based upon the power to me you can effect capacity. Cyber eyes seeing stuff on the moon could happen if you jacked Vision magnification, that's a capacity feature not the eyes rating. Boosting limb attributes would be jacking up limb enhancement mods. Now that based on fluff so not a totally clear source.

I'm saying we don't want to open the door to cyber adapts with all physical skills running at low 20s because of one power. That will have GMs screaming at every table come gencon