Shadowrun

Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Icarus on <05-21-11/2100:21>

Title: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: Icarus on <05-21-11/2100:21>
My friend was describing in the new COD game there's a shotgun that apparently sets your 'victims' on fire. I was curious if such a thing was available in Shadowrun for his character. And if not, any suggestions for a house ruled version?
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: bigity on <05-21-11/2103:51>
Honestly that sounds more like Borderlands to me, where weapons can have 'elemental' effects, such as explosions, fire, shock, and corrosion.

And yes, you can get shotguns that set people on fire.

If there is a CoD game with that, it only furthers my dislike for the series.
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: Rockopolis on <05-21-11/2105:02>
Uh, you can use flare rounds in your shotgun.  They're not that great, because they're, you know, flares, but there is a chance to set your target on fire.

Or, you can go crazy like I did and get an underbarrel flamethrower for your shotgun.
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: CanRay on <05-21-11/2135:08>
They're called "Dragonsbreath" Shotgun shells, and exist IRL indeed.  Not sure if they were around in Vietnam, and Black Ops was really, REALLY bad for accuracy of weapons.

I do know that they, apparently, won't work with Semi-Auto Shotguns.  Pull out your Pumps, people.  :P
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: Rockopolis on <05-21-11/2148:14>
Forgot about those.  Supposed to be a good way to ruin a gun.
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: CanRay on <05-21-11/2152:13>
Forgot about those.  Supposed to be a good way to ruin a gun.
Great against certain types of Vampires using Double-Barreled Shotguns.

Or so a Dresden Files character puts it.  :P
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: Icarus on <05-21-11/2206:30>
Uh, you can use flare rounds in your shotgun.  They're not that great, because they're, you know, flares, but there is a chance to set your target on fire.

Or, you can go crazy like I did and get an underbarrel flamethrower for your shotgun.


I like the sounds of a flamethrower.
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: CanRay on <05-21-11/2207:59>
Assault Rifle With a Masterkey System With and Underbelly Flamerthrower.  :P
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: Mäx on <05-21-11/2228:05>
My friend was describing in the new COD game there's a shotgun that apparently sets your 'victims' on fire. I was curious if such a thing was available in Shadowrun for his character. And if not, any suggestions for a house ruled version?
From my Weapons&Equipment text file:
Dragonsbreath rounds
These shells use low-explosive propellant charges to expel burning powdered zirconium out of the barrel, basically turning the shotgun into flamethrower.
When using these shells use tazer ranges.
6P -half I 12R 140
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: Patrick Goodman on <05-22-11/0020:25>
We had these rounds in Cannon Companion back in the SR3 days. Did they not make it into Arsenal?

EDIT: Yep, Big D's Temper rounds, page 39 of Cannon Companion. Weird that they didn't make into the newer book.
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: savaze on <05-22-11/0048:42>
Just stick with things that don't ruin your weapons and actually are cooler and scarier than dragons breath...
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs291.ash1/21844_108806539130706_100000040816963_232383_4594587_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: Rockopolis on <05-22-11/0104:16>
Hey, isn't there a backpack mortar system?  Or was that an AA missile launcher?  Because there's always White Phosphorus shells.  Or WP grenades.
Actually...can you load Willy Pete into shotgun shells?  Capsule rounds, or Silver bullets.

Capsule rounds filled with napalm.  Like a paintball gun full of holy water if you're fighting vampires.

Actually, on the high tech side, you could load your capsules with Surtr nanomachines.
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: CanRay on <05-22-11/0121:36>
Or, you know, steel shot or steel-jacketed lead.  If it ain't broke...  :P
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: Rockopolis on <05-22-11/0724:28>
...you aren't trying hard enough.
That'll hardly set someone on fire.
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: hobgoblin on <05-22-11/0731:32>
I guess some kind of phosphor or napalm round may work for short range options.
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: Stahlseele on <05-22-11/0814:30>
Have Incendiary Rounds been cut too?
They were in SR3 Canon Companion on Page 38 . .
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: Teyl_Iliar on <05-22-11/1109:15>
I can't find them in the core book or Arsenal. so it looks like Traser rounds or capsule will have to suffice. Personally if I was gonna make a shotgun lay down real figure, I'd either go with an under barrel ares-s III super squirt modified to shoot napalm (making it a flame thrower without an ignition source.) or a Shiawase blaser so that you can cover someone with the "flammable chemical" and then hit them with a flare, explosive, EX explosive, to ignite. Otherwise you'd need to so a serious knowledge skill check or data search test to find plans to build them, then an Armorer test to make them yourself.
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: savaze on <05-22-11/1253:26>
I'm foreseeing a runner that likes skate boards or roller blades with super soakers full of chems, a monofilament whip, and water balloons full of napalm with contact paper glued on for the  big ignites!
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: CanRay on <05-22-11/1258:17>
...you aren't trying hard enough.
That'll hardly set someone on fire.
Want me to try harder?  FINE!

"Hey, check out my new cybernetic system!"  "You're just...  Urinating on that guy we have tied up.  And now you're pulling out a zippo, and..."  *FOOM*  "WHOA!  YOU CAN PEE NAPALM?"
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: savaze on <05-22-11/1306:17>
Want me to try harder?  FINE!

"Hey, check out my new cybernetic system!"  "You're just...  Urinating on that guy we have tied up.  And now you're pulling out a zippo, and..."  *FOOM*  "WHOA!  YOU CAN PEE NAPALM?"
That's more doable than I would think! Hrmmmmm... Now the Face has a secret weapon -DUN DUN DUUUUN-
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: baronspam on <05-22-11/1413:56>
...you aren't trying hard enough.
That'll hardly set someone on fire.
Want me to try harder?  FINE!

"Hey, check out my new cybernetic system!"  "You're just...  Urinating on that guy we have tied up.  And now you're pulling out a zippo, and..."  *FOOM*  "WHOA!  YOU CAN PEE NAPALM?"

I laughed untill everyone in the room stared at me like I had gone suddenly and totally insane.  The title of this thread alone is why I love this silly game.
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: Teyl_Iliar on <05-22-11/1423:04>
...you aren't trying hard enough.
That'll hardly set someone on fire.
Want me to try harder?  FINE!

"Hey, check out my new cybernetic system!"  "You're just...  Urinating on that guy we have tied up.  And now you're pulling out a zippo, and..."  *FOOM*  "WHOA!  YOU CAN PEE NAPALM?"
:o...........+1 8)

Why just have showers that are golden? when they can also be fire-y!
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: CanRay on <05-22-11/1809:04>
"So you have a system that allows you to spit venom that blinds people and burns flesh, you can urinate flammable materials, what's next, high explosive scat?"  "Funny you should mention it..."  "WHAT HAS SCIENCE DONE??? (http://youtu.be/6ziKnyvBZks)"
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: Teyl_Iliar on <05-22-11/1833:14>
We here at Aperture science would like to remind you that science is our business, and business is good. ;D
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: Wolfboy on <05-22-11/2011:45>
personally if i'm gonna be using fire, i use an MGL with all but one of the magazine loaded with splash grenades full of LP (liquid propane) and the last round in the mag being WP
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: Teyl_Iliar on <05-22-11/2019:48>
personally if i'm gonna be using fire, i use an MGL with all but one of the magazine loaded with splash grenades full of LP (liquid propane) and the last round in the mag being WP
Now that, sounds like a good time. ;)
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: hobgoblin on <05-23-11/0629:32>
Remember to bring soydogs.
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: Stahlseele on <05-23-11/1135:43>
"So you have a system that allows you to spit venom that blinds people and burns flesh, you can urinate flammable materials, what's next, high explosive scat?"  "Funny you should mention it..."  "WHAT HAS SCIENCE DONE??? (http://youtu.be/6ziKnyvBZks)"
Kinda Sounds like the one guy from Schlock Mercenary.
Got a full on soldier boosting from combat nanites, turned him into a living explosives factory . .
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: JoeNapalm on <05-23-11/1348:54>

I'm not sure about SR4 (just getting back into SR) but I can verify that CP2020 allowed for thermite shells to be fired from a breach-loading shotgun.

It would eventually ruin the barrels, and if you put them into a weapon with an action, it would fuze it shut...but they were Hell-on-wheels for CQB.

In my campaign, they were a favorite of the biggest, baddest "Prime Runner" on the block. Carried two sawed-off double-barrel 20ga shotguns that would simply burn the cold iron heart outta a full borg at point-blank ranges.

Good times...good times... :'(

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: Morg on <05-23-11/1511:19>
The times where a Remington roomsweeper could do anything are past. A moment of silence please  :'(
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: Charybdis on <05-23-11/1935:01>
Historically, my gun-bunnies always kept a nice-cheap sawn-off T-250 on-person specifically for  weird ammo (shock-lock requirements, flare rounds, Dragons'breath in old versions etc)

Does SR4 have rules for Coin Shot? This could bring the Roomsweepers back into action :P

Myself, I've never dealt with it before, but having just seen resident Evil:Afterlife, and playing too much Fallout:New Vegas, I'm curious as to the mechanics of it.

A) It looks like the mass of a slug, but spread like Flechette.... Would it be just a higher Power Flechette Round?
B) Is it just the same as Teflon Flechette, where the AP penalties no longer apply?.. or would they be worse as coins more likely to bounce of hard armour?
C) Secret option C)
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: Morg on <05-24-11/1530:18>
Truth be told coin shot has awful ballistics it instead has all of the Weakness of a Slug cobined with the Weakness of Flechette

ie a large deformation of the coin witch causes an irregular pattern, short range and few Pellets to hit the target

not optimal at all

but still Props for coolness factor of shooting out coins, I would like to see  saboted (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabot) shotgun slugs
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: hobgoblin on <05-24-11/1546:01>
SR shotguns fire slugs by default. And i suspect they would be sabot-ed by default, rather then just a big ball of metal, to get max effect.
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: Mäx on <05-24-11/1605:16>
I would like to see  saboted (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabot) shotgun slugs
From my Weapons&Equipment text file:
Sabot round
A sabot round consists of a small, dense core surrounded by a lightweight jacket (the sabot itself). When the round is fired, the sabot falls away within a few yards ofthe muzzle,
leaving the projectile to travel on at extremely high velocity increasing the effective range of the slug. Increase the shotguns range by 50% when using these.
- - B 4R 40
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: Morg on <05-24-11/1608:53>
SR shotguns fire slugs by default. And i suspect they would be sabot-ed by default, rather then just a big ball of metal, to get max effect.

In this case I will disagree with you sir saboting is an extra cost to a round and not all operations need saboting to do the job, the corps would not give you an advantage for free they would market it to you. secondly the writers have already called attention to saboting with APDS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armour-piercing_discarding_sabot) as an additional cost and availability value

@ max sounds good
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: hobgoblin on <05-24-11/1617:28>
Then load your SR shotgun with APDS and be happy. No need for special rules for them when the effect is basically the same (except for the larger bore of the barrel).

Thing is that sabot is a misnomer, any time one pack something around a object to minimize propellant leakage one is dealing with a sabot. This independent of the round fired being a crash test dummy or a tungsten/DU penetrator.
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: Teyl_Iliar on <05-31-11/0138:12>
They're called "Dragonsbreath" Shotgun shells, and exist IRL indeed.  Not sure if they were around in Vietnam, and Black Ops was really, REALLY bad for accuracy of weapons.

I do know that they, apparently, won't work with Semi-Auto Shotguns.  Pull out your Pumps, people.  :P
exhibit A.  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP4FjODPDFA) God bless that crazy Russian bastard. He always seems to have access to wonderful toys.
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: CanRay on <05-31-11/1154:02>
They're called "Dragonsbreath" Shotgun shells, and exist IRL indeed.  Not sure if they were around in Vietnam, and Black Ops was really, REALLY bad for accuracy of weapons.

I do know that they, apparently, won't work with Semi-Auto Shotguns.  Pull out your Pumps, people.  :P
exhibit A.  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP4FjODPDFA) God bless that crazy Russian bastard. He always seems to have access to wonderful toys.
"Do not try this at home, unless you are professional."  *Points to shirt that says "Professional Russian"*  Nearly fell over at that.
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: Ten-Hex on <05-31-11/1423:40>
Since you bring up that guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOoUVeyaY_8

"Shotguns double modifiers from uncompensated recoil, just like heavy weapons."

Yeah.
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: Teyl_Iliar on <05-31-11/1424:45>
"Shotguns double modifiers from uncompensated recoil, just like heavy weapons."
Where is this quoted from?
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: Operator on <05-31-11/1426:47>
"Shotguns double modifiers from uncompensated recoil, just like heavy weapons."
Where is this quoted from?

SR4A, p.152 contains the paraphrasing.
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: Ten-Hex on <05-31-11/1427:11>
"Shotguns double modifiers from uncompensated recoil, just like heavy weapons."
Where is this quoted from?

It's a paraphrase of the actual rules. I don't have my book pdfs with me, otherwise I would have just quoted the SR4A verbatim.
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: Teyl_Iliar on <05-31-11/1430:35>
"Shotguns double modifiers from uncompensated recoil, just like heavy weapons."
Where is this quoted from?

SR4A, p.152.
....... Someone's face should be pretty red right about now.
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: Ten-Hex on <05-31-11/1443:26>
....... Someone's face should be pretty red right about now.

Well, maybe the average person has trouble with shotgun recoil. After all, "there is no more deadly weapon system in the world than a Russian with two AA-12s."  8)
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: Operator on <05-31-11/1444:38>
"Shotguns double modifiers from uncompensated recoil, just like heavy weapons."
Where is this quoted from?

SR4A, p.152.
....... Someone's face should be pretty red right about now.

Well, that's the reference. It is a paraphrase, and I first thought the language was more in line with the SR4 printing, but it isn't.  ???

"Any shotgun fired in burst fire mode also doubles the modifier for any uncompensated recoil." Does this mean full auto is off the hook?
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: Stahlseele on <05-31-11/1528:53>
If you have a BF shotgun, that Shotgun produces 3 points of Recoil.
If you only have 2 points of Recoil compensation, then one point is left.
This point is then doubled. Meaning you lose 2 dice for your shooting stuff.
So if you have a 6 round FA Shotgun with no Recoil Compensation, then you lose 12 dice.
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: hobgoblin on <05-31-11/1611:50>
"Shotguns double modifiers from uncompensated recoil, just like heavy weapons."
Where is this quoted from?

SR4A, p.152.
....... Someone's face should be pretty red right about now.

Well, that's the reference. It is a paraphrase, and I first thought the language was more in line with the SR4 printing, but it isn't.  ???

"Any shotgun fired in burst fire mode also doubles the modifier for any uncompensated recoil." Does this mean full auto is off the hook?
Not at all, as full auto in SR terms is basically a collection of bursts.
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: hobgoblin on <05-31-11/1619:52>
They're called "Dragonsbreath" Shotgun shells, and exist IRL indeed.  Not sure if they were around in Vietnam, and Black Ops was really, REALLY bad for accuracy of weapons.

I do know that they, apparently, won't work with Semi-Auto Shotguns.  Pull out your Pumps, people.  :P
exhibit A.  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP4FjODPDFA) God bless that crazy Russian bastard. He always seems to have access to wonderful toys.
The unmatched flexibility of the pump action shotgun.
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: CanRay on <05-31-11/1622:49>
Good combination of magazine size, ability to load special rounds, and rate of fire.  And, if you get the right kind of Cooling Shroud, you can also mount a bayonet.

Still can't beat the reliability of a good ol' Double-Barrel.
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: The Seven on <06-01-11/0016:57>
My friend was describing in the new COD game there's a shotgun that apparently sets your 'victims' on fire. I was curious if such a thing was available in Shadowrun for his character. And if not, any suggestions for a house ruled version?

They're called "Dragonsbreath" Shotgun shells, and exist IRL indeed.  Not sure if they were around in Vietnam, and Black Ops was really, REALLY bad for accuracy of weapons.

I do know that they, apparently, won't work with Semi-Auto Shotguns.  Pull out your Pumps, people.  :P

Quote from: Wikipedia, Dragon's Breath page
A Dragon's Breath usually refers to a zirconium-based pyrotechnic shotgun round. When the round is fired, sparks shoot out to about 5 m (20 feet).

While it has few tactical uses, the visual effect it produces is impressive, similar to that of a short-ranged flamethrower. The pyrotechnic shell is expensive compared to other shells, costing around 5 US dollars per shell.

Because it is a very low-power round, it cannot be used in an automatic shotgun; it does not produce enough recoil energy to cycle the next shot, causing the firearm to jam. An additional reason for use only in a manually-operated firearm is the fact that the round shoots at least a little flame for 3–5 seconds. This would cause a hazard if a shell still emitting flame were to be ejected from an automatic shotgun.

Legality
Dragon's Breath rounds are banned in many locations, due to their inherent fire hazard. Even in areas where the round may be shipped, an extra fee for hazardous materials may be charged.

The law in the State of Illinois states that a Dragon's Breath round is any round that "contains exothermic pyrophoric misch metal as the projectile and is designed for the purpose of throwing or spewing a flame or fireball to simulate a flame-thrower". This shotgun round is banned for use by anyone who is not authorized to possess, manufacture, or sell by the law." The wording is very similar for Florida as well.

http://youtu.be/RP4FjODPDFA (http://youtu.be/RP4FjODPDFA)
(Wait until about 4:20 - no pun - and check the ammo in effect).
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: CanRay on <06-01-11/0035:04>
The sheer measure of what you can pack into the hull of a shotgun shell boggles the mind.

Really, the only "Round" that I heard of that has more "Options" is the 40mm Launched Grenade.
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: Stahlseele on <06-02-11/1139:52>
He's a good shooter, i'll give him that.
Even when pepper sprayed he still did not miss . .
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: Rockopolis on <06-02-11/1243:57>
Who is that guy? And where does he get those wonderful toys?
Title: Re: Shotgun that sets people on FIRE?
Post by: hobgoblin on <06-02-11/1330:52>
Half the fun of his videos is the very hollywood-like accent.