Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Snake Eyes on <06-15-12/0227:08>
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I read over the entry on the High Power rounds from WAR, but i was wondering if these rounds can have the explosive or EX-explosive type like regular ammo.....
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High-powered is an ammunition type (like EX and regular), it just happens to be one that requires a modification to the gun, in able to be used.
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Combining EX-Explosive Warhead with High Power Rounds tends to do things like cause it to explode inside the chamber. It also puts Stick and Shock rounds THROUGH people rather than tasering them. And don't even ask what happened with the Gel Rounds!
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Combining EX-Explosive Warhead with High Power Rounds tends to do things like cause it to explode inside the chamber. It also puts Stick and Shock rounds THROUGH people rather than tasering them. And don't even ask what happened with the Gel Rounds!
It tends to leave a mess 8)
Thanks guys
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It would be nice to have this at least in APDS/ AV versions. Well, in current version I really cannot see reason why would anyone use this kind of ammo (and battleriffles in general)
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It would be nice to have this at least in APDS/ AV versions. Well, in current version I really cannot see reason why would anyone use this kind of ammo (and battleriffles in general)
I agree on the High-power, but as for battle rifles, that answer is simple. Automatic fire that can get sport rifle ranges, and do just as much damage as the sporting rifle, usually. And they're just as good at close quarters, too.
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Thats right well I had an feeling that Battle Rifles are only capable to fire Hi powered rounds (In fact, I had a feeling that hi-oower chamber and consequentialy ammo is the only thing that makes Assault rifle become Battle rifle. Or is there possibility of firing standard types of ammo from Battle riffles?
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There is one Battle Rifle that fire hi-powered ammo (the Onotari Urban Hunter from GH2), all the other ones use standard ammo.
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Thats right well I had an feeling that Battle Rifles are only capable to fire Hi powered rounds (In fact, I had a feeling that hi-oower chamber and consequentialy ammo is the only thing that makes Assault rifle become Battle rifle. Or is there possibility of firing standard types of ammo from Battle riffles?
Most battle rifles don't use high power chambering, it would have to be listed as a modification. They just have that high a base DV. They're awesome really. I ran with a HVBAR once and that thing was sweet (sure I couldn't silence it, but when the team is going loud, it's a good gun to reach for).
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Indeed. Battle rifles are the new hotness. Load one up with AP Flechettes. Fun fun!
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I don't understand peoples negative attitudes to hi power rounds.
Yes you get a -2 to shoot, but those dice only provide a 30% chance of extra damage. A guaranteed extra damage AND armour penetration are well worth the cost.
I suppose if you only shoot with 2-4 dice it would be an issur, but any gunslinger adept, street Sam or weapon specialist that shoots with that few dice is doing something wrong. Our ws has rolled 27 dice with a pistol....
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The problem I have is more that you can't use any other ammunition type, and the base availability of them makes prohibitively expensive at character creation. And I don't really feel like jumping through those hoops when I could just load up flechette ammo and get nearly a similar result (with slightly worse AP, but impact armour is usually bad anyway). Only flechette ammo can be passed off as legal during inspection, while high powered stuff is going to turn a few more heads.
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The problem I have is more that you can't use any other ammunition type, and the base availability of them makes prohibitively expensive at character creation.
Ditto. Hence, my houserule:
High Powered Ammunition is not a separate type unto itself; many kinds of ammunition are available in high powered ("HP") variants. (Disallowed HP ammunition includes Stick-and-shock, Capsule, Gel, and Subsonic.)
Firearms must be modified to fire such rounds, and once modified can fire only HP ammunition. Any firearm, including assault cannons, can be modified in this way. Modifying a weapon to fire High Powered ammunition costs 2 slots, has a threshold of 20, requires an armorer's shop, and costs as much as the original weapon (with an availability of 7R). This modification is incompatible with Extended Magazine and Increased Cylinder.
HP ammunition gains +1 damage and -1 armor piercing, in addition to the base values for that type of round. Price is multiplied by four, and availability increases by +8. When fired, all recoil is doubled before compensation. Additionally, HP ammunition is especially loud and has a large muzzle flash. Attempts to detect or pinpoint the firing of HP ammunition gain +3 dice for hearing tests, or +1 die for visual tests (these modifiers are cumulative with silencers / suppressors).
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I like your house rule _Pax_.........The Barrett Model 121 is a monster with the HP mod (11P -6AP), i agree that HP ammo should be a mod for other ammo types
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The way I see it is: HP modifies the propellant charge, not the actual metal (etc) bit that gets flung out the end of the barrel.
So, I basically treat HP rounds as Magnum rounds.
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high powered is just that you put 20% more propellant into the same round (which does not become a magnum round jsut by that) which is problematic because it can destroy your weapon... if it doesn't the muzzle velocity and therefore the kinetic energy of the projectile is greater...
to counter the "my weapon will explode" you can mod your weapon to withstand the increase in propellant... that's the the mod.,..
when not using the mod:
other games handle it like 1/5th chance that your weapon explodes with high powered rounds... I'ld go with 1/6 because we only have d6 or leave it to handle it like a test with gremlins 3 (count 3 more 1s and if it goes bad it'll explode)...
all in all though you could theoretically high power every round you want (especially no problem for AV, hollow point or the like which is basically still a solid metal(or other durable material) round)
it could of course get really problematic with capsule rounds, explosive rounds, and I really don't know about the disposable sabot... maybe it get's blasted to pieces before it does it's thing
that of course is only to the extend of my knowledge and by no means RAW
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I don't understand peoples negative attitudes to hi power rounds.
Yes you get a -2 to shoot, but those dice only provide a 30% chance of extra damage. A guaranteed extra damage AND armour penetration are well worth the cost.
It's pretty simple really:
HP ammo is +2P -1 AP goes against ballistic, give you -2 dice to shoot and require a 2 mod slots taking modification to your gun if you don't get one that has it as standard.
Where as AP flechette is +2P - AP goes against impact witch is often 1 or more points slower then ballistic, doesn't give you dicepool penalty and doesn't need a mod to your gun.
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I've got a character that has the HP mod for their hold out pistol.....but i'm deciding whether EX-explosive wouldn't be better, considering the penalty.
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I've got a character that has the HP mod for their hold out pistol.....but i'm deciding whether EX-explosive wouldn't be better, considering the penalty.
Get Tiffany needler and load it up with Armor Piercing flechette rounds.
That gives you hold-out with damage code of 8P - AP Impact :o
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I've got a character that has the HP mod for their hold out pistol.....but i'm deciding whether EX-explosive wouldn't be better, considering the penalty.
Get Tiffany needler and load it up with Armor Piercing flechette rounds.
That gives you hold-out with damage code of 8P - AP Impact :o
Not quite, Max. If we assume that the Needler already includes the +2 DV, +5 AP from Flechette ammo, which it certainly appears to do, then switching to the +2 DV, 0 AP Armor Piercing flechette would give it a damage code of 6P(f), -3 AP.
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I've got a character that has the HP mod for their hold out pistol.....but i'm deciding whether EX-explosive wouldn't be better, considering the penalty.
Get Tiffany needler and load it up with Armor Piercing flechette rounds.
That gives you hold-out with damage code of 8P - AP Impact :o
The Tiffany Needler's stats already include the effects of flechette ammo. That's what the little "(f)" after the damage means. However, they are pre-errata stats, back when the AP mod fo flechette was only +2 instead of +5.
So a Tiffany Needler with Armor-Piercing Flechettes would be 6P(f), AP --. Which is still more damage than you can usually get for a holdout pistol.
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Needler Pistol with AP Flechette, now thats brutal
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Do they make AP flechette assault cannon ammo? Just wondering...
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Miriko and TheNarrator, read ]the Arsenal errata, needlers errated damage code is 8P(f) +5 AP witch AP fletchette turns to 8P(f) -AP
8)
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....what. :o
That has to be a mistake on somebody's part that resulted in them accidentally adding the flechette damage bonus twice.
Because when you subtract the damage increase for flechette ammo, that still leaves 6 DV, and one generally doesn't get assault rifle level damage out of a hold-out pistol.
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Why not? You already have the heavy revolver with 6P AP-2 base....
Why not give a gun which can fire flechettes and only flechettes. A base 6P code before the +2D +5Impact on the ammo.
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Because that's a heavy revolver, not a semi-automatic hold-out? And every other hold-out in the game does 4P? Especially when it's a hold-out designed for fashionable social climbers who want to accessorize their gun with their outfit?
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No, the slivergun is also a heavy pistol same as a predator or warhawk. It's NOT a holdout or a light pistol.
Again, the heavies pistols are generally 5P AP-1. 6P AP-2 for the warhawk BEFORE ammo. So a pistol which can fire flechettes and only flechettes SA having a base code of 6P before ammo isn't all that far out of whack. Even it's BF capability isn't that bad considering how hard it is to get RC for pistols (you can't get gas vents or a whole bunch of other things because by RAW they're not available to modify pistols).
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Falconer, this discussion is about the Tiffany Needler, not the Ares Slivergun.
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Ahh... thanks for the clarification... though the arguments still hold.
The ares slivergun does 3D more than the predator baseline heavy pistol... but can only fire flechettes with a +5 impact armor.
The Tiffani needler similarly only does 2D more, but can only fire flechettes with the +5 impact armor. (though just glanced at the errata it seems to have missed the list of guns fixed for +5AP.... I'd think that's an oversight... even if it wasn't an oversight, if it followed the sliverguns example it'd be +3D +5Impact... so it's still not that far out of whack errata'ed or not).
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The Tiffany Needler was mentioned in the Arsenal errata. The AP was changed from +2 to +5, as per the change in the rules for flechettes. But the damage was inexplicably changed from 6P(f) to 8P(f), which is damage on par with what you'd get if you loaded an assault rifle with flechettes. That doesn't seem appropriate to me for an extremely small hold-out pistol made for upper-crust dilettantes. It makes the Needler the most powerful semi-automatic handgun in the game.
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I'm looking at the errata... and the table entries... it's showing 6P AP+2.
p. 174 Compiled Tables
The following weapon entries should list an AP of +5 (per the updated flechette rules): Raecor Sting (p.174), Ares Viper Slivergun (p.175), Remington Roomsweeper w/ flechettes (p.175), Mossberg AM-CMDT (p.176), Remington 990 w/ flechettes (p.176), Street Sweeper (p.176).
No mention of the gun or a damage code change on the chart.
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The errata in question is specifically the errata for the Arsenal sourcebook where the Tiffany Needler appears. Version 1.3.2 dated September 12, 2008.
It's possible that it's been errata'd back since then. If anybody has the newest reprint of Arsenal, perhaps they can check.
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The errata in question is specifically the errata for the Arsenal sourcebook where the Tiffany Needler appears. Version 1.3.2 dated September 12, 2008.
I've got the PDF, and I believe it's been updated since then. It lists the Needler as 6P(f), AP+2i ... the file was created 22 September 2011, and last modified 2 July 2011.
How's that for screwed up? ???
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The errata in question is specifically the errata for the Arsenal sourcebook where the Tiffany Needler appears. Version 1.3.2 dated September 12, 2008.
I've got the PDF, and I believe it's been updated since then. It lists the Needler as 6P(f), AP+2i ... the file was created 22 September 2011, and last modified 2 July 2011.
How's that for screwed up? ???
Yup, i have the Arsenal (2nd printing 2011) pdf, and it shows the damage you mention. So did a mistake creep in again or did the errata get an errata
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Okay, so they made a mistake in the errata in 2008, and fixed in later errata sometime before 2011.
That's about what I figured.
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Guys, note one thing that was cause of some crying and anger when reprint came out...they forgot to incorporate erratta into it. So it has same glitches as previous version.
see here:
http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=4077.0
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Okay, so they made a mistake in the errata in 2008, and fixed in later errata sometime before 2011.
That's about what I figured.
Nope, they just accidentally reprinted the original arsenal without any errata what so ever.