[Marcus]

I do really think the game would be well served by a way to boost initiative in AR and only while in AR, without going into Wired, I know we have boosted reflexes, and maybe if they introduced back in the more advanced level of that it might be good, but i just feel like AR is a sticking point in the decker running around with the party concept.

[Mirikon]

I do really think the game would be well served by a way to boost initiative in AR and only while in AR, without going into Wired, I know we have boosted reflexes, and maybe if they introduced back in the more advanced level of that it might be good, but i just feel like AR is a sticking point in the decker running around with the party concept.

Well, the decker has pretty much always been a character who either tried to hamstring himself in order to keep going with the party, or they found someplace safe (or safe enough) to go VR and do what they needed to do, all the while hoping that no one came along and shot them in the face while they were diving the Matrix. There was a REASON why matrix types did their very best to stay in the nice, safe van if they had anything resembling a choice in the matter.

[Cabral]

I do really think the game would be well served by a way to boost initiative in AR and only while in AR, without going into Wired, I know we have boosted reflexes, and maybe if they introduced back in the more advanced level of that it might be good, but i just feel like AR is a sticking point in the decker running around with the party concept.

There's EARRS (or whatever it abbreviates to). It may be kind of what you're looking for. It let's you use your VR initiative, but physical actions take a big penalty (-10?). It's from Kill Code.

[Marcus]

I do really think the game would be well served by a way to boost initiative in AR and only while in AR, without going into Wired, I know we have boosted reflexes, and maybe if they introduced back in the more advanced level of that it might be good, but i just feel like AR is a sticking point in the decker running around with the party concept.

There's EARRS (or whatever it abbreviates to). It may be kind of what you're looking for. It let's you use your VR initiative, but physical actions take a big penalty (-10?). It's from Kill Code.

Yeah I know what your talking about but your right that the penalty is to big to over come realistically.

Well, the decker has pretty much always been a character who either tried to hamstring himself in order to keep going with the party, or they found someplace safe (or safe enough) to go VR and do what they needed to do, all the while hoping that no one came along and shot them in the face while they were diving the Matrix. There was a REASON why matrix types did their very best to stay in the nice, safe van if they had anything resembling a choice in the matter.

Your right about all of that Mirikon, but it doesn't change the fact that something could be done to help effect change to the issue.
 
The wireless thing was super popular in 4th, and I'll be the first to admit cellphone hacking also killed decking, which no one wants a repeat of. But surely we can find a happy medium between the two points. Being tier 2 combat and tier 2 decking isn't like a horrible concept. You can achieve this to some meaningful degree but it's despite of the system not in cooperation with the system.

[Cabral]

Well, the decker has pretty much always been a character who either tried to hamstring himself in order to keep going with the party, or they found someplace safe (or safe enough) to go VR and do what they needed to do, all the while hoping that no one came along and shot them in the face while they were diving the Matrix. There was a REASON why matrix types did their very best to stay in the nice, safe van if they had anything resembling a choice in the matter.

Your right about all of that Mirikon, but it doesn't change the fact that something could be done to help effect change to the issue.
 
The wireless thing was super popular in 4th, and I'll be the first to admit cellphone hacking also killed decking, which no one wants a repeat of. But surely we can find a happy medium between the two points. Being tier 2 combat and tier 2 decking isn't like a horrible concept. You can achieve this to some meaningful degree but it's despite of the system not in cooperation with the system.

I disagree.

I think decker in a box agents were more problematic. Cyberdecks didn't need a comeback; they could have taken a middle of the road approach with hacking capable commlink costs versus basic commlinks. The decker gear spike overdid it in 5e and the only thing the  return of cyberdecks fixed was Bull's cosplay. 

I am also a big fan of characters can support fill multiple roles as a support character. For example, a secondary decker to assist the primary or to take on parallel tasks. However, I want to see characters who have those talents, not characters with bots (aside from riggers).

I think 4e had an echo Technomancers could take to enhance their initiative. I thought it affected meat initiative, but it looks like either 5e changed it to VR only or I misremembered it ever affecting normal initiative.

[PiXeL01]

Kill Code has an echo that boosts Technomancers’ Initiative in meat space.

[mcv]

It seems the consensus here is that Matrix/VR initiative does not add to regular Initiative, but is a completely separate form of initiative. But Matrix AR uses regular/physical initiative. If this is the case, then it's possible for a decker with Wired Reflexes to be faster in AR than in VR (while invulnerable to biofeedback).

A few years ago I asked a question about this on https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/35959/can-ar-decking-be-better-than-cold-sim-vr, and the top rated answer there was that regular initiative is not just physical initiative, but the base initiative on which all others build. So Wired Reflexes would also add to Matrix/VR initiative.

I didn't ask whether it also adds to astral. That still seems unlikely, but is less of an issue because the boundary between astral and physical is clearer. AR is the thing that really muddies it.

[Michael Chandra]

An AR decker might be faster, but also much poorer (due to spending so much on the ware) and will not have the Hotsim bonus. So yes, you could spend tons of cash on the ultimate AR-decker, but in the end they're still 2 dice behind.

Incidentally, I see that top-answer has the claim that WR adds to 'all' the initiatives, which would automatically mean Astral.

[mcv]

Yeah, my big question is whether that top answer is wrong or not. Most people here seem to claim it's wrong.

If it's correct, then decking in AR certainly seems like an attractive option, especially for a part-time decker. You could have a decker that could also be a decent (and certainly quick) street samurai. But even for decking, the real comparison is with cold-sim VR, which doesn't get the bonus, but still gets biofeedback, and leaves the decker incapable of doing anything else. The AR decker could keep moving, interact alternatingly with meat space and cyberspace, and be very fast in both. Sacrificing two dice to be immune to the physical biofeedback of hit-sim VR does not strike me as a terrible deal.

[Michael Chandra]

It's a good trick yes. Just don't forget your distraction penalties when dealing with both.

[mcv]

Do you get distraction penalties? I thought AR is generally assumed to be always on. I've also never heard of a penalty for using the Matrix in AR.

[Michael Chandra]

Possibly, yes:

If your attention is really focused
on your AR display and not your surroundings,
your gamemaster may impose a –2 dice pool penalty on
any Perception tests you make to notice things going on
around you in physical space.

[mcv]

Sure, but again, still better than not being able to perceive at all.

[Marcus]

If your asking if can boost physical initiative above base vr, the answer is yes. This is not new nor is it surprising. We been joking about cold SIM adept hackers for years. That concept is just an adept with max initiative boost sitting at keyboard going as fast as vr Decker.

Doing it from ar isn't new ether in a different sense. There are many on here who miss 4e decking cabral for instance disagreed with my call for hybred decking saying we need more hybreed decking lol. Which all very normal for this board.

Anyways the distraction penalty is a pain, but it's dealable.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

An AR decker might be faster, but also much poorer (due to spending so much on the ware) and will not have the Hotsim bonus. So yes, you could spend tons of cash on the ultimate AR-decker, but in the end they're still 2 dice behind.

Being immune to biofeedback is a tradeoff that can situational be quite worth the -2 dice handicap.