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Cybereyes (Built In Camera

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Sir Ludwig

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« on: <07-27-21/2236:54> »
Hello everyone,

I had a idea for a game, but have a question for the forums. 

Basic Cybereyes comes with free stuff including a built in camera.  Where is the video/images for the camera stored? 

I assume in the eye, but the more I thought about it, wasn't sure. 

Thanks,
SL
Si vis pacem, para bellum

Reaver

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« Reply #1 on: <07-28-21/0151:00> »
This is actually a good question:

From 4e up, digital storage is no longer a concern, as everything can now store data. From the cybereye, right down to the Runner's tightie whities (or butt floss, I don't judge)...

And this all boils down to a single paragragh in the 4e corebook...

5e continued this tradition, and only gave it (i think) 2 lines in the CRB.

6e, made no mention of storage that I can recall... (but only read the matrix section once) so I would assume that they are continuing the "storage don't matter" tradition.
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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #2 on: <07-28-21/1034:40> »
Yes, it's true that ever since there's been a wireless matrix, data storage has incorporated "cloud" access. 

Surely there's some finite physical storage built in to devices directly. But it's not discusssed whether physical storage has continued to advance/improve or if it's become a dead end tech due to already having infinite storage in the cloud. In a hypothetical case where you want to run your cybereyes wireless off, it'll come down to gm discretion on whether the eyes can call up old, recorded files... and how much more video it can record.

RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Sir Ludwig

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« Reply #3 on: <07-28-21/1459:51> »
Thanks everyone,

I missed 5th, and have learned some of my assumptions don't always track. 

SSRD answer was what I was hoping.

Thanks again,
SL
Si vis pacem, para bellum

Smogg

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« Reply #4 on: <07-29-21/1640:55> »
The question of data storage is interesting. My understanding is that just about any object can hold data, with the RFID chips likely having the most limited storage down to just a few files. In case of video feed from cybereyes, it is fair to assume it could be stored in the eyes, connected comlink or cloud storage where it the file might still be accessed (and hacked) from the eyes or the comlink. You might also have cases where data is streamed or copied continualy to a secure host and that stream might have a icon representation in the matrix which you could try follow. Or you might not store the data at all. Lots of options.

Of course in some cases it could be important how the runner or security guard cybereyes data storage is set up. My advice is to allow the runners to have plenty of freedom to set it up like they prefer. Relying on cloud is likely very standard, but you might miss some footage if you lost matrix connection. Maybe store both on eyes and sync to cloud to avoid that issue. On the other hands runners might consider the data very sensitive - maybe it gets stored to a chip in a comlink or datajack that can be removed and disconnected. In the end Shadowrun is full of difficult choices.

On the other hand, I would have some consistency in how cybereye NCPs and cameras are generally set up so runners mostly can deal with it in a standard way... except when you want to emphasize more savy adversaries.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #5 on: <07-29-21/1908:58> »
Rules-wise, the physical location of where the 1s and 0s of the data file are stored is largely irrelevant.  Whether it's on a tiny optical chip or in some data farm via the cloud, it's still "on that device".

The caveat of course is what I already said upthread:  if you insist on running your gear wireless-off, then you're giving the GM carte blanche on saying "your file can't be saved/accessed" until you go back to wireless-on.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Xenon

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« Reply #6 on: <07-30-21/0130:28> »
Just hack the network the camera is part of and edit the live feed in real time as your team pass the camera's line of sight.

Once footage have been uploaded to the matrix it will become much harder to scrub all versions and backups of the footage...

RickDeckard

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« Reply #7 on: <07-30-21/0450:29> »
If you must have physical storage I'd imagine it's on your comm, which is typically the master of all our slaved devices, including cybereyes. A comm would probably hold a few kazingabytes, or whatever we're up to.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #8 on: <07-30-21/1118:29> »
If you must have physical storage I'd imagine it's on your comm, which is typically the master of all our slaved devices, including cybereyes. A comm would probably hold a few kazingabytes, or whatever we're up to.

That's likely true, at least in part...but it's still a potential problem if the cybereyes are wireless-off.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

RickDeckard

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« Reply #9 on: <07-31-21/1402:59> »
If you must have physical storage I'd imagine it's on your comm, which is typically the master of all our slaved devices, including cybereyes. A comm would probably hold a few kazingabytes, or whatever we're up to.

That's likely true, at least in part...but it's still a potential problem if the cybereyes are wireless-off.

As the rules state, you must run wireless to get the full benefits. Offline storage could be a datajack connected to your comm amd all your cyberware linked to your datajack.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #10 on: <07-31-21/1521:49> »
If you must have physical storage I'd imagine it's on your comm, which is typically the master of all our slaved devices, including cybereyes. A comm would probably hold a few kazingabytes, or whatever we're up to.

That's likely true, at least in part...but it's still a potential problem if the cybereyes are wireless-off.

As the rules state, you must run wireless to get the full benefits. Offline storage could be a datajack connected to your comm amd all your cyberware linked to your datajack.

That only establishes a direct connection between datajack and commlink.  Your eyes still must communicate wirelessly with the datajack, in that scenario.  If you want to go full wireless off and still have your cybereyes access files on your commlink, then you have to do a direct connection between commlink and cybereye.  Which of course is technically feasible, but it may have awkward social implications to have a datacable coming out of your eyeball.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

RickDeckard

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« Reply #11 on: <07-31-21/1800:00> »
If you must have physical storage I'd imagine it's on your comm, which is typically the master of all our slaved devices, including cybereyes. A comm would probably hold a few kazingabytes, or whatever we're up to.

That's likely true, at least in part...but it's still a potential problem if the cybereyes are wireless-off.

As the rules state, you must run wireless to get the full benefits. Offline storage could be a datajack connected to your comm amd all your cyberware linked to your datajack.

That only establishes a direct connection between datajack and commlink.  Your eyes still must communicate wirelessly with the datajack, in that scenario.  If you want to go full wireless off and still have your cybereyes access files on your commlink, then you have to do a direct connection between commlink and cybereye.  Which of course is technically feasible, but it may have awkward social implications to have a datacable coming out of your eyeball.

I don't see any reason why you couldn't have all your cyberware internally connected by wire to your datajack, which would then act as a hub. Would make a lot of sense, actually.

Also, I think Cloudless answers the questions of where data is stored:

Cloudless: Not comfortable with your data stored
only in the Matrix’s cloud? This program uses legacy
code from previous incarnations of the Matrix to place
data in physical media and physical media only. In addition
to saving a file, it allows the user to use a successful
Edit File action to move a file off the Matrix into
the memory of a single designated device. This test is
an Opposed Test, using the normal rules for Edit File (p.
239, SR5). The Public grid has a dice pool of 6, local
grids a dice pool of 8, and global grids a dice pool of 10
for the purposes of this test.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #12 on: <07-31-21/2014:32> »
I don't see any reason why you couldn't have all your cyberware internally connected by wire to your datajack, which would then act as a hub. Would make a lot of sense, actually.

In a world where everything is designed to communicate wirelessly by default... with respect but no it doesn't make sense to have a general practice where you multiply the degree of implant invasiveness by laying a hardline infrastructure throughout your body between cyberware systems. The internal router cyberware was 5e's version of doing exactly this.. but you paid even more nuyen/essence for that capability to run your various cyberware systems wireless-off and still retain the capability to talk to each other.  And 6e hasn't re-introduced the internal router cyberware... yet.  I'll agree that yes there's some niche (i.e. shadowrunner) value in running cyberware wireless off, so an internal router makes sense to exist for criminals/espionage applications.  But does it make sense for all cyberware to be connected to each other via hardline by default?  Honestly... no.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Reaver

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« Reply #13 on: <07-31-21/2056:09> »
Remember 99.9% of cyberware was developed for the medical commercial market: To be used on individuals that had suffered an accident or disease.

For the market they are designed for, wireless makes sense. They can have their 'ware monitored by DocWagon for signs of problems. They can get software
 updates from the manufacters easily, and effortlessly.

Now, for the 1% of the market that goes "wireless is bad, mm'kay" <Shadowrunners, off grid workers, luddites> Well, they can turn it off and "lose out" on those nifty features... like auto updated software, cloud storage, and what not.


Now does that mean you couldn't store that video in the cybereye? No, it just means the video stays in the eye.
Now, as to how much can be stored in the eye... well, that's going to be up to the GM, because like I said before, 4e got rid of storage tracking altogether with their "you can store it anywhere" motto, and 5e expanded with "cloud" storage.

A few minutes to hours storage in the eye? Sure, why not? You're entire waking life since the eye install? Probably not.

So this leaves runners in a catch 22 situation. If they wonder about "wireless off" in the wrong areas, well that attracts attention. However, wondering about wireless on, does leave them open to attacks and tracking.
There is NO perfect solution, you don't get to have your cake, and eat it...

You have to manage the risks based on the situation you find yourself in. If you are in an AAA Zone, going wireless off is not just a giant neon sign that says "HEY! ABOUT TO DO SHADDY SHIT HERE!!" its against the law! (And thus, they are already after your ass). Going wireless off in the RedLight District? Well no one gives a shit. Hell its expected! So a Runner has to plan, and really think about what they are doing, and WHERE. In that AAA Zone, where MAD sensors, Chemsniffers, RFID readers are the norm, along with random security foot, drone and astral patrols: Do they really want to wander around not broadcasting? Do they really need 6 guns on their person? Are their licenses going to stand up to checks?

Now, some of this you can get around. Optical chip burners and chips to keep private data private. Good Fake SINs for cover, and licenses  for most ware. And yes, even the ability to turn wireless on and off is an advantage. Wireless on, you are just a Stream of Data in an Ocean, and when the shooting starts, you go offline for the advantages wireless off gives you,cand deal with the clean up later...

But you're never going to have all the advantages of being online, while being wireless off... Everything has a price.
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #14 on: <07-31-21/2111:11> »
But you're never going to have all the advantages of being online, while being wireless off... Everything has a price.

Good summation.  If you can get both at once, then there's no point in establishing pros and cons between the two.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.