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My Input on Anarchy

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Shadowjack

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« on: <08-12-16/1757:42> »
It's no secret that I am a huge Anarchy fan. I am extremely excited to play but I do have some feedback that I think warrants thought.

1. The priority system from SR5 is set up in such a way that players often move away from their initial character plans in favor of getting more karma value from shuffling their priorities in an optimal manner. I really hope that Anarchy will not havre a priority system or if it does, it would be perfectly or close to perfectly balanced.

2. I think it would be amazing if the book included a high quality character sheet that covers all the mechanical aspects of your character, tags, dispositions, cues, etc. This would be very convenient for filing major NPC's. 1 page for gameplay stuff, 1 for background and other information.

3. I don't know how driving vehicles and vehicle combat works but I hope it is very simple and fun. SR5 vehicles are very cool but not actually that fun for me to use. I read that non-weapon gear has no stats, so maybe this won't be an issue.

4. I am very happy to see that contacts do not have loyalty and connection ratings. This has been a huge problem for me for a very long time and my friends are not a fan of it either. I hope this remains to be the case in the final version.

5. Each player selecting 2 positive qualities and 1 negative quality seems like a very good system to me.

6. Reducing the number of attributes looks very promising.

7. Not having to roll for intiiative is a very good thing. It's way too slow otherwise.

8. It looks like the amount of armor players can utilize is greatly reduced and also seems more reasonable for low strength characters. I hope the book does not include things like forearm guards and vitals kits because too much armor stacking leads to many problems.

9. The simplification of matrix and magic rules is a godsend. I especially like how the spells look on character sheets. Cyberware is looking very nice as well.

10. Tags, dispositions, and cues look very good. I especially like them because they seem very convenient for designing high quality NPC's.

Overall I'm loving everything I've seen, read, and heard. This is the most excited I've ever been about a Shadowrun product and solves all of my most pressing concerns (ammo and recoil tracking, initiative, complex matrix/magic/vehicles/grenades, contacts with connection and loyalty ratings, slow character creation, slow gameplay, and more)

Thanks so much for catering to those us that always wanted a faster paced version of Shadowrun!

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Shadowjack

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« Reply #1 on: <08-14-16/2042:17> »
It would also be nice if the average height and weight for races were included in the book. Previous editions had this but SR5 didn't iirc. It would be nice too if feet and pounds were used instead of kilograms and meters. I always found that strange that a Seattle based game is using meters and kilograms.
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Patrick Goodman

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« Reply #2 on: <08-15-16/0206:12> »
SR5, page 380. I'll ask that it be included somewhere in the final book.
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Jack_Spade

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« Reply #3 on: <08-15-16/0251:43> »
It would also be nice if the average height and weight for races were included in the book. Previous editions had this but SR5 didn't iirc. It would be nice too if feet and pounds were used instead of kilograms and meters. I always found that strange that a Seattle based game is using meters and kilograms.

No. No. No.
Learn the metric system - like the rest of the civilized world. This is not an USA centric game. The USA don't exist anymore. Using body parts of dead kings for measurement is a thing of the past.
talk think matrix

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Medicineman

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« Reply #4 on: <08-15-16/0449:43> »
It would also be nice if the average height and weight for races were included in the book. Previous editions had this but SR5 didn't iirc. It would be nice too if feet and pounds were used instead of kilograms and meters. I always found that strange that a Seattle based game is using meters and kilograms.

No. No. No.
Learn the metric system - like the rest of the civilized world. This is not an USA centric game. The USA don't exist anymore. Using body parts of dead kings for measurement is a thing of the past.

+1 from me (a German User)

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grauetheorie

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« Reply #5 on: <08-15-16/0931:39> »
Using body parts of dead kings for measurement is a thing of the past.

qft

Patrick Goodman

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« Reply #6 on: <08-15-16/1113:45> »
I don't suppose we could shut this argument down now, could we? Or at least take it elsewhere?
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jim1701

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« Reply #7 on: <08-15-16/1659:30> »
It would also be nice if the average height and weight for races were included in the book. Previous editions had this but SR5 didn't iirc. It would be nice too if feet and pounds were used instead of kilograms and meters. I always found that strange that a Seattle based game is using meters and kilograms.

No. No. No.
Learn the metric system - like the rest of the civilized world. This is not an USA centric game. The USA don't exist anymore. Using body parts of dead kings for measurement is a thing of the past.

+1 from an American that has lived in Europe long enough to be really tired of not having the metric system at home. 

Carmody

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« Reply #8 on: <08-15-16/1835:31> »
Using body parts of dead kings for measurement is a thing of the past.

+1
You're right Patrick, we will not close this argument here, but this was worth reading, and worth the off-topic imho  ;D ;D

Back on topick, Thanks ShadowJack for this feedback, I'm look forward for the final version
« Last Edit: <08-15-16/1838:02> by Carmody »
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ByteStorm

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« Reply #9 on: <08-17-16/1447:41> »
I haven't had a chance to test Anarchy myself yet and I don't have access to the prototype, but I've listened to the actual play on the arcology podcast and one thing got me worried.

The edge mechanics were described as follows:

You can use Edge to either:

A) Pre-Edge: count 4s as hits too
B) Post-Edge: reroll failures

Now A) doesn't seem to make sense, as long as you're using fair dice, since it provides no benefit over B).

The probablities for a success on a single dice are:

A) 1/2
B) 1 - (1 - 2/6) = 5/9 > 1/2  (it's the same as not rolling 2 failures in a row)

Also with option B) you've get the chance of choosing not to use edge, if the number of successes on the initial roll is already high enough, so you may also use less edge...

IMHO there is no point in offering a option that is worse in all regards (except maybe for people with 4 as lucky number).

So if my limited information on this topic is correct, this should be improved...

Shadowjack

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« Reply #10 on: <09-09-16/0030:17> »
Maybe Edge should always be used in the same way, pre or post. Otherwise it does boil down to math.
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Carmody

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« Reply #11 on: <09-09-16/0332:25> »
It's already the same issue with SR5 and was also an issue with SR4 after they changed clarified the post roll edge use.
However, I fully agree with you that it shall be changed.
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HappyTheDwarf

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« Reply #12 on: <09-19-16/1730:22> »
On the Pre/Post Edge question, there's an extra mechanic involved in Anarchy that makes a small difference:
Many Amps (the generic term for almost anything that gives your character a benefit such as spells, cyberware, etc) can do things like grant you a re-roll of a failed die when making a test.  Presumably this would be applied to failures after a pre-Edge, still allowing 4-5-6 to be hits, but before a post-Edge re-roll.  A fellow runner did the math, and in this situation the math comes out a little better to pre-edge if you only have a few dice.

However, that still probably doesn't outweigh the benefit you get with post-edge of waiting to see if you need to use the Edge or not (as you mentioned).

But as this friend pointed out to me, if I'm focusing that much on the math, I'm missing what Anarchy is really about.  It's meant to be more narrative, and less numbers-focused.  Maybe in Anarchy the option to pre-edge vs. post-edge isn't really about which has the best probability in a given situation, it's just to give the player rolling the dice a choice about how to go about it...   I can think of lots of times people at the table have said "these dice just aren't rolling well for me, I'm going to switch to those other dice."  That's not about increasing the odds, its just about making a change based on how they feel about their luck.  In a narrative-focused game, I think this is probably a similar option, even if the mathematical difference is inconsequential.  Sometimes players might just think it's fun to roll a bunch of dice and see all the hits their pre-edged 4s, 5s, and 6s make.

Personally, I think that exploding 6's in Shadowrun are even more fun for the table than making 4s a hit.  "Wow, roll it again!  And again!!!"  But, unless they also put into Anarchy that you can add the edge dice to the pool when pre-edging, I don't think exploding 6's would be enough of a benefit on their own.  We'll just have to see how Edge is handled in the final Anarchy rules.   

Gingivitis

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« Reply #13 on: <09-25-16/0342:06> »
I hope they incorporate exploding 6's in Anarchy.  They have been a part of SR for a really long time.
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Hobbes

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« Reply #14 on: <09-25-16/0956:19> »
On the Pre/Post Edge question, there's an extra mechanic involved in Anarchy that makes a small difference:
Many Amps (the generic term for almost anything that gives your character a benefit such as spells, cyberware, etc) can do things like grant you a re-roll of a failed die when making a test.  Presumably this would be applied to failures after a pre-Edge, still allowing 4-5-6 to be hits, but before a post-Edge re-roll.  A fellow runner did the math, and in this situation the math comes out a little better to pre-edge if you only have a few dice.

However, that still probably doesn't outweigh the benefit you get with post-edge of waiting to see if you need to use the Edge or not (as you mentioned).

But as this friend pointed out to me, if I'm focusing that much on the math, I'm missing what Anarchy is really about.  It's meant to be more narrative, and less numbers-focused.  Maybe in Anarchy the option to pre-edge vs. post-edge isn't really about which has the best probability in a given situation, it's just to give the player rolling the dice a choice about how to go about it...   I can think of lots of times people at the table have said "these dice just aren't rolling well for me, I'm going to switch to those other dice."  That's not about increasing the odds, its just about making a change based on how they feel about their luck.  In a narrative-focused game, I think this is probably a similar option, even if the mathematical difference is inconsequential.  Sometimes players might just think it's fun to roll a bunch of dice and see all the hits their pre-edged 4s, 5s, and 6s make.

Personally, I think that exploding 6's in Shadowrun are even more fun for the table than making 4s a hit.  "Wow, roll it again!  And again!!!"  But, unless they also put into Anarchy that you can add the edge dice to the pool when pre-edging, I don't think exploding 6's would be enough of a benefit on their own.  We'll just have to see how Edge is handled in the final Anarchy rules.   

Really doesn't matter if it's tweaked or not, there will always be one statistically better option for any given situation.

IMO Pre-Edge should be "Better" because post Edge gives you the option of seeing the result first.  So you know if you need two hits and you get two hits, you save your edge.