[trunglefever]

I've shot rifles and handguns before and anytime you fire more than one bullet, you will need a bit of time to reset yourself and be more accurate.

Non-wired persons (like yourself) get one action phase every 3 seconds.
Do you find that shooting 1 bullet every 2-3 second cause progressive recoil (little more than 1 bullet per three seconds)?
(my answer to this is no - not even for semi-automatic rifles).

Do you find that shooting 3 bullets every 2-3 seconds cause progressive recoil (little more than 1 bullet per second)?
(my answer to this is yes - at least for semi-automatic rifles).

From a real life perspective it make a lot of sense that recoil is reset if you don't spend the entire action phase shooting bullets (i can't being to grasp why would you still feel the effects of recoil after you spend 1-2 second to slot your rifle with a new magazine)

I agree completely, the game mechanics, however, have something to say about it. Hell, if we really wanted to be getting into real life emulation, you would fire the weapon, run out of bullets, eject (simple if not smartgun), reload (simple) and take aim (simple), prior to shooting (simple). That's two passes of action which would tell me that's enough time for recoil progression to reset.

That's how I would picture it going anyway.

[Psikerlord]

It definitely needs clarification, but I think the intent is that you simply do not fire for a single pass. Otherwise, resetting recoil would be way too easy.

this. plus it is clear u must use an action other than shooting for an entire phase to reset recoil. therefore one simple action not shooting, and another in the same phase shooting, cannot meet the requirement. Aarons interpretstion, if it suggests otherwise is incorrect. clearer wording would be nice though.

[ZeConster]

It definitely needs clarification, but I think the intent is that you simply do not fire for a single pass. Otherwise, resetting recoil would be way too easy.

this. plus it is clear u must use an action other than shooting for an entire phase to reset recoil. therefore one simple action not shooting, and another in the same phase shooting, cannot meet the requirement. Aarons interpretstion, if it suggests otherwise is incorrect. clearer wording would be nice though.

Actually, Aaron's interpretation is quite simple:

• an action other than [shooting for an entire Action Phase]
  instead of
• [an action other than shooting] for an entire Action Phase

[Crunch]

It definitely needs clarification, but I think the intent is that you simply do not fire for a single pass. Otherwise, resetting recoil would be way too easy.

this. plus it is clear u must use an action other than shooting for an entire phase to reset recoil. therefore one simple action not shooting, and another in the same phase shooting, cannot meet the requirement. Aarons interpretstion, if it suggests otherwise is incorrect. clearer wording would be nice though.

Actually, Aaron's interpretation is quite simple:

• an action other than [shooting for an entire Action Phase]
  instead of
• [an action other than shooting] for an entire Action Phase

Nope. Those are both possible interpretations. Aarons interpretation is
[an action other than shooting]
and then he throws the last part of the sentence in the gutter. A simple action cannot be [shooting for an entire action phase].

[Xenon]

I am pretty sure that when i played shadowrun back in 2nd ed you would never get recoil if you had a low rating gasvent system on your heavy pistol even if you fired it twice per "action phase".

In SR5 i can roll a troll and raise his strength to 10, augment it with 3 points of used muscle augmentation. Buy a Fichetti Security 600 light pistol that come with a detatchable folding stock. Mod it with a gasvent III system. Place it in a gyromount. Hold the pistol with both hands. Fire only once per action phase (half the rate of fire compared to SR2).
- But before i empty the clip in this light pistol i will have so much cumulative recoil that i cant even hit a stationary target at <5m.

That can not be intended. Seriously?


As I see it the only explanation is that:

1) we don't fully understand how to read the rule (maybe recoil compensation should be added every action phase or maybe recoil should reset every action phase if you only spend a simple action shooting bullets - or something else entirely).

or

2) The rule is wrong and need an errata (would not be the first).

[Michael Chandra]

It's something they deliberately changed due to being able to fire just once per Action Phase. At that point, you cannot compare an ancient edition with the current one.

[Crunch]

Xenon even the harshest (and most internally consistent) reading of the rule resets recoil if you don't fire for a single action phase (a variable concept but a time period as short as half a second). That's hardly an egregious restriction.

[Angelone]

I agree completely, the game mechanics, however, have something to say about it. Hell, if we really wanted to be getting into real life emulation, you would fire the weapon, run out of bullets, eject (simple if not smartgun), reload (simple) and take aim (simple), prior to shooting (simple). That's two passes of action which would tell me that's enough time for recoil progression to reset.

That's how I would picture it going anyway.

This is how I think it works. I believe it gives that as an example in the book under one gun recoil on page 177.

[Xenon]

Xenon even the harshest (and most internally consistent) reading of the rule resets recoil if you don't fire for a single action phase (a variable concept but a time period as short as half a second). That's hardly an egregious restriction.

A normal non-wired person have an average initiative score that is 10 or less, which mean each action phase is ~3 seconds. To reset recoil a normal person would need ~6 seconds without shooting (or ~3 seconds if he have an initiative score of 11-20)

Each action phase is only ~0.5 seconds if you have an initiative score of 51+ (good luck with that).

[Michael Chandra]

A normal non-wired person have an average initiative score that is 10 or less, which mean each action phase is ~3 seconds. To reset recoil a normal person would need ~6 seconds without shooting (or ~3 seconds if he have an initiative score of 11-20)

Honestly the example given seems badly written, no sane interpretation of the rules as written suggests you need to not fire for 2 full Action Phases.

[Crunch]

Xenon even the harshest (and most internally consistent) reading of the rule resets recoil if you don't fire for a single action phase (a variable concept but a time period as short as half a second). That's hardly an egregious restriction.

A normal non-wired person have an average initiative score that is 10 or less, which mean each action phase is ~3 seconds. To reset recoil a normal person would need ~6 seconds without shooting (or ~3 seconds if he have an initiative score of 11-20)

Each action phase is only ~0.5 seconds if you have an initiative score of 51+ (good luck with that).

As I noted "as short as half a second" that's as fast as it gets. A dead average person (with a statistical average of 3.5 in all stats) would actually average 10.5 on initiative and go twice. If you take 3 as average instead a normal person will still get a second action almost half of the time. And again, it's one full action phase for recoil reset under the harshest reading.

But take the case of an average person with a pistol. Assuming they only take one action a turn every turn (Very unlikely, but your case). They wouldn't have to worry about any recoil at all until they had been shooting as quickly as physically possible until the third combat turn.

[Xenon]

...I believe it gives that as an example in the book under one gun recoil on page 177.

In the example Wombat fire a single shot in one simple action, then he use his other simple action to take cover.
In the next action phase he use one simple action to take aim "...which removes the effects of progressive recoil and reset hit recoil compensation back to its initial 3 points..."

So if you go by the example alone the recoil reset after you spend 2 simple actions in a row not shooting bullets no matter if they are in the same action phase or not (then again, the example does not say what Wombat does with his second simple action in that last action phase).

Honestly the example given seems badly written, no sane interpretation of the rules as written suggests you need to not fire for 2 full Action Phases.

I am not sure if i follow you now. I don't suggest that.....

This might be a better way to illustrate what i mean:


Initiative 11-20

Time  Action
0.00    Action phase 1 Combat turn 1. Fire one shot
1.50    Action phase 2 Combat turn 1. Fire second shot after 1.5 seconds. recoil does not reset.
3.00    Action phase 1 Combat turn 2. Fire third shot after another 1.5 seconds. recoil does not reset.
4.50    Action phase 2 Combat turn 2.
6.00    Action phase 1 Combat turn 3. Fire fourth shot after 3.0 seconds. recoil reset.
7.50    Action phase 2 Combat turn 3. Fire fifth shot after 1.5 seconds. recoil does not reset.


Initiative 0-10

Time  Action
0.00    Action phase 1 Combat turn 1. Fire one shot
3.00    Action phase 1 Combat turn 2. Fire second shot after 3.0 seconds. recoil does not reset.
6.00    Action phase 1 Combat turn 3.
9.00    Action phase 1 Combat turn 4. Fire third shot after 6.0 seconds. recoil reset.

But take the case of an average person with a pistol. Assuming they only take one action a turn every turn (Very unlikely, but your case). They wouldn't have to worry about any recoil at all until they had been shooting as quickly as physically possible until the third combat turn.

Fire a semi-automatic pistol as fast as you can is 3 shots per action phase. That generate 3 points of progressive recoil. In the second action phase you would suffer 6 points of recoil. You get 1 + strength / 3 (round up) recoil compensation. To reach 6 recoil compensation he would need a strength of 13. (Good luck with that).

In this case he would suffer uncompensated recoil in the second action phase.

Unless he only have strength 1-3 of course, in that case he would suffer uncompensated recoil in the very first action phase


(note that i don't have a problem with people getting recoil if they fire as fast as they can, taking up complex actions to do so. My issue is when you only fire once. In a simple action).

[ZeConster]

So if you go by the example alone

Why would you do that.

[Xenon]

So if you go by the example alone

Why would you do that.

you don't.
almost every example in this book also seem to be wrong.

it was a direct reply to Angelone. This time i even included the quote so you would not be confused that i talked to you ZeConster.

[Michael Chandra]

It's not not firing for 6s, since you spend 3s not firing. Actions don't happen in an instant, they consume time. So when you said not firing for 6s, I assumed you meant not firing for 2 Action Phases.