Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: bobo69 on <09-29-10/0139:53>
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I think that even in 2070s , non caseless assault rifles are still being produced or used in numbers soemwhere in the world.
Case in point, the AK-47, produced in the many millions. The gun is robust enough to survive even into the 2070s. While its succesor AK-97 is in huge numbers. The AK-47 still probably exists in the more remoter parts of the globe like Africa etc. The AK-97 while relatively easy to produce, the AK-47 is even easier to produce even in a old vintage workshop(note: Africa, Congo etc.).
Wonder how they would rate in Shadowrun?
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Unless we assume that all AR:s in SR are firing something like 7,62Nato or some other bigger round, i would say that AK-47 is identical to 97.
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I would assume that assault rifles would be firign probably in the 5-6 mm range similiar to the M-16 round.
7.62 N would be akin to battle rifles or in Shadow run Machinegun rounds.
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Light machine guns, most likely.
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Light machine guns, most likely.
Medium actually, light shoots same ammo as assault rifles.
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Real life, "LMGs" are mostly the M249 SAW or equivalent. Fires 5.56 rounds, can be carried and fired by one man on the move.
MMGs are the M240 or the old M60. 7.62 ammo, most often carried/operated by two men, fired from bipod/tripod while bunkered down.
HMGs are the M2 Browning or similar. Fires .50 caliber ammo, can ONLY really be fired from mounts or tripods, takes two-three men to carry around.
Shadowrun does not really model the differences in machine gun classes all that well.
-k
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Maybe modern firearms are recoiless or have neglibible recoil(well its high tech caseless).
Old firearms still have recoil. Maybe that's the difference.
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I doubt that, the recoil thing, because firearms in Shadowrun do have recoil. The old cased bullets would be a niche thing. Noone would produce high quanties of it as most people buy caseless, you might have to special order them or make them yourself.
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What? Caseless ammunition is waaaaayyyyy more expensive than cased. Even allowing for tech advances reducing the cost to produce, cased ammunition is still 1) cheaper to produce, 2) easier to mass manufacture (i.e. cheaper) and 3) easier to reload (which makes it cheaper to maintain). When you are talking about multinational corporations, then the obvious advantage goes to the less expensive ammunition.
Sure, caseless is cleaner than cased ammunition in a weapon (with no open breach to eject the case, the interior of the weapon is exposed to fewer contaminants), but cleaning kits are an inexpensive option. Only spec ops units would be equipped with caseless ammunition, due to their specialized needs. Since you are blowing a bundle on spec ops training anyway, often the spec ops are given high end equipment to allow your expensive investment to carry out their missions without dying a lot (thus cutting into the bottom line for training replacements).
For generic grunts? The least expensive, mass-produced weapon/ammunition combination possible that will let them carry out their fuction. Which is usually taking ground or surrounding an objective and laying down a lot of firepower. Your grunts are going to die a lot, so why bother spending bunches of extra money on them.
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That's why I give grunts AK-97s when I make them. Those things are dirt freaking cheap.
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That's why I give grunts AK-97s when I make them. Those things are dirt freaking cheap.
It's hard to beat for availability 4 and 500 bucks, that's for danged sure.
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Availabilty 3 and 499?
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Give them Mosin Nagants. You can supply and entire squad for the cost of one regular firearm. ;) Course the recoil would probably take them out before the runners did.
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Give them Mosin Nagants. You can supply and entire squad for the cost of one regular firearm. ;) Course the recoil would probably take them out before the runners did.
Ah, RL milsurp weapons. Proving that the price of a gun in real life has nothing to do with the damage it inflicts, or the range brackets it uses. It's great to be able to grab 12 or 14 combat rifles for the price of one tricked out 1911 handgun.
TAKE THAT, game balance! ;D
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Give them Mosin Nagants. You can supply and entire squad for the cost of one regular firearm. ;) Course the recoil would probably take them out before the runners did.
Ah, RL milsurp weapons. Proving that the price of a gun in real life has nothing to do with the damage it inflicts, or the range brackets it uses. It's great to be able to grab 12 or 14 combat rifles for the price of one tricked out 1911 handgun.
TAKE THAT, game balance! ;D
I know right :D?
Those things are monsters, if you run out of ammo you can still beat your opponents to death with them, and that's not even mentioning the huge freaking spear that is the bayonet. I love em.
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The heck with old, in my game there are still two types of firearms that are always cased; revolvers and shotguns. Seriously, how the drek would you even LOAD a revolver with caseless ammo? As for shotguns, I suppose you could make one that would only fire slug rounds with caseless, but the entire point of shotguns is the variety of speciality rounds they can fire, and several of those would pretty much have to be cased to work, the most obvious one being shot.
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Many versions of current-day "caseless" ammo have the projectile partially or wholly embedded in the solid propellant.
The way they work is that they have a starter charge at the back of the bullet that goes off first, pushing the bullet into the barrel.
Then the main charge goes off, propelling the bullet like normal.
Shot ammo is usually contained in a plastic or paper "cup", which besides keeping the shot together also allows the propellant to push the shot down the barrel better. A caseless version would work pretty much the same as a caseless single bullet - starter charge pushes the cup with shot into barrel, main charge goes off propelling the shot just like any other shotgun.
-k