Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => The Secret History => Topic started by: Mirikon on <10-26-11/0908:48>
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Are the only elves that survived from the Fourth World the big time players, or could there be others out there who simply decided to keep their heads down, and played supporting roles in getting things moving? I kindof like the idea of an immortal elf looking at a cocky young mage, and saying "Kid, I've forgotten more about magic than you will ever know."
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We have immortal elves that do that now. :)
To the best of anybody's knowledge, the IEs that you've met so far are all there are. There was an unfortunate trend during the developing reign of Carl Sargent (half of the SR Toxic Twins) of having them pop up just about every damn place, whether it made sense or not, and there's been a lot of work by freelnacers ever since to dial that back, so I'm doubting you're ever going to find one just hanging about at a Starbuck's talking politics and ogling a barista.
Some writers have even suggested a purge of the existing ranks, but I personally kinda like the ones we've got so I hope there's not one.
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There's rumors and half-spoken conspiracies. Things like Theran blood-mages come forward through Atzlan teocallis/locuses. The life-rocks of Obsidimen being found in the wild.
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The drop bears coming together to enact their millennias-long plot to rule through Proctor & Gamble products.
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You really shouldn't speak of such things, Valashar. They're everywhere.
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Yeah, but first they have to figure out Cincinnati traffic patterns.
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Yeah, but first they have to figure out Cincinnati traffic patterns.
There are patterns in there?!? ;)
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It's like chaos theory. In this case, mostly theory.
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... There was an unfortunate trend during the developing reign of Carl Sargent (half of the SR Toxic Twins) of having them pop up just about every damn place, whether it made sense or not,...
Out of curiosity, who is the other half of the SR Toxic Twins?
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I've had a Immortal human in the background for some time.
He was a archivist and Nethermancer from the Libaray of Throal back inthe Earthdawn days and mostly kept to himself during the down time.
The players only recently became perhipherally aware of him after a run involving a dictionary (of most of the languages of the time) he had worked on as a master translation copy had resurfaced. Given something of that magintude (mages treatise anyone?), he was decidedly desperate to get it back and used the runners to get it away froma second string corp (who had no idea what they had really).
Interestinglly for the players, the contents showed up on the WB a few months later and has driven the Other IE's and GD's up the Wall as the 'Rosetta Codex' has opened up areas of magic research previously out of reach as there is now the ability to translate what has been found on elder artifacts
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Yeah, but first they have to figure out Cincinnati traffic patterns.
There are patterns in there?!? ;)
It's like chaos theory. In this case, mostly theory.
Maybe it's like Confusion Corner in Winnipeg? It's actually slowly summoning the Elder Gods so that they can come and eat all of Mankind?
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I thought that was Dallas/Fort Worth Traffic
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... There was an unfortunate trend during the developing reign of Carl Sargent (half of the SR Toxic Twins) of having them pop up just about every damn place, whether it made sense or not,...
Out of curiosity, who is the other half of the SR Toxic Twins?
Presumably, Marc Gasçoigne.
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Hey, Lou, welcome to the party!
Out of curiosity, who is the other half of the SR Toxic Twins?
That would be Marc Gascoigne, Carl's frequent partner in crime.
Note that this is a personal opinion based on their output for the game, much of which I didn't care for. I've never met either of them, never exchanged so much as a single word with either one of them, and I wouldn't know them if I passed them on the street. You, having worked with them, might have different thoughts on the matter. :)
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Presumably, Marc Gasçoigne.
You presume correctly, good sir.
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Note that this is a personal opinion based on their output for the game, much of which I didn't care for. I've never met either of them, never exchanged so much as a single word with either one of them, and I wouldn't know them if I passed them on the street. You, having worked with them, might have different thoughts on the matter. :)
You know, I've read stuff they've each individually done for other game systems, and generally, it's not bad. As well, I'm sure they're fine people -- or at least okay, right? But what they wrote for Shadowrun -- England, that disgusting obscenity that is Imago, 99.95% of the Prime Runners book -- it's just bad. Arrogant, contemptuous -- Patrick, I cannot agree with you enough on this one. Apart, they're okay; together, they're an ecological disaster.
What particularly gets my goat is the fact that 'no matter what the runners do, they cannot understand XYZ'. 'Person Q has stuff / knowledge that will always be better than the PCs.' I mean, really?? I could understand this in a piece of fan fiction -- you know what I mean. "Teachdaire is k001!!! He has a Thing that lets him Hipnotiz every1 in teh r00m when he walkz in!!!1!' Every GM in the world -- okay, all the ones I've ever met -- would laugh the character out of the room. England is Bigger and Better and Bestest at magic than everyone else in the world, and they're so neat, and and and ...
... but let me tell you how I really feel .... :P :)
Like I said -- all their writing would have been fine -- or rather, tolerable -- if it had been fanfic. That it was written, approved, and made canonical makes me wish I could tear out the portion of my brain where the knowledge of their writing survives...
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Imago? Must have missed tha one
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Well, you're in luck! The PDF is available at Drive Thru RPG (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=64097) for just $4.
Enjoy!
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Glad you didn't specify which kind of luck there, FJ....
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Hey, Lou, welcome to the party!
Hi Patrick!
Out of curiosity, who is the other half of the SR Toxic Twins?
That would be Marc Gascoigne, Carl's frequent partner in crime.
Note that this is a personal opinion based on their output for the game, much of which I didn't care for. I've never met either of them, never exchanged so much as a single word with either one of them, and I wouldn't know them if I passed them on the street. You, having worked with them, might have different thoughts on the matter. :)
I can understand that. IMO, Carl went a little too far with mome of his IE stuff, and that's coming from someone who loves the whole IE / Great Dragon thing in ED/SR.
Take Care,
Lou
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Note that this is a personal opinion based on their output for the game, much of which I didn't care for. I've never met either of them, never exchanged so much as a single word with either one of them, and I wouldn't know them if I passed them on the street. You, having worked with them, might have different thoughts on the matter. :)
You know, I've read stuff they've each individually done for other game systems, and generally, it's not bad. As well, I'm sure they're fine people -- or at least okay, right? But what they wrote for Shadowrun -- England, that disgusting obscenity that is Imago, 99.95% of the Prime Runners book -- it's just bad. Arrogant, contemptuous -- Patrick, I cannot agree with you enough on this one. Apart, they're okay; together, they're an ecological disaster.
What particularly gets my goat is the fact that 'no matter what the runners do, they cannot understand XYZ'. 'Person Q has stuff / knowledge that will always be better than the PCs.' I mean, really?? I could understand this in a piece of fan fiction -- you know what I mean. "Teachdaire is k001!!! He has a Thing that lets him Hipnotiz every1 in teh r00m when he walkz in!!!1!' Every GM in the world -- okay, all the ones I've ever met -- would laugh the character out of the room. England is Bigger and Better and Bestest at magic than everyone else in the world, and they're so neat, and and and ...
... but let me tell you how I really feel .... :P :)
Like I said -- all their writing would have been fine -- or rather, tolerable -- if it had been fanfic. That it was written, approved, and made canonical makes me wish I could tear out the portion of my brain where the knowledge of their writing survives...
Please, don't hold back. ;)
I can definitely understand your point here. I think some (note, *some*) of the "this guy is better than any PC" thing comes from the idea that "If you give it stats, they will kill it." This was something Tom Dowd used to talk about in relation to important NPCs, and was one of the reasons you never (or only *very* rarely) saw official stats for any of the important characters in the SR world. The idea is if you provide fixed statistics, then the character can be killed/defeated. If you don't provide stats, the GM is free to let that character be as powerful (or skilled, etc.) as necessary for that character to serve their purpose in the story the GM and players are telling.
The important distinction here is that this is intended to help support the story, not just to make the characters "Mary Sues" (at least that's the intended idea... I can't say that some writers haven't done this to make their own pet characters extra cool).
As for the "England is better" thing, that's probably just patriotism.
Lastly, as for how this sort of stuff got to be "approved", as I remember, Tom (and I don't really know so much about MIke M. and later Developers) preferred to give authors a fair amount fo slack in developing things, so as to not limit them too much when contributing to the universe.
Take Care,
Lou Prosperi
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England is Bigger and Better and Bestest at magic than everyone else in the world, and they're so neat, and and and ...
Yet, French peasants with forks can stop a SAS commando and a Foreign Office face ;)
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England is Bigger and Better and Bestest at magic than everyone else in the world, and they're so neat, and and and ...
Yet, French peasants with forks can stop a SAS commando and a Foreign Office face ;)
Yes, but the greatest French leader was frightened off by a herd of Fluffy Bunny Rabbits. Not to mention the US had to bail them out when Germany overran their borders... Twice.
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They held their own the first time (With British help, of course), and the second time, their government screwed the military over and they didn't have a chance (They certainly showed their courage at Dunkirk, however.).
And the US showed up late to both events. Try to be on time next time. ;)
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Sorry. Damn snooze button....
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We didn't show up late. We showed up exactly when we meant to. Just because we got an invitation to come at a specific time doesn't mean we accepted :-p. Also, in both wars, if the USA didn't get involved we would all be speaking German.
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And if the French didn't get involved in the American war of independence in the first place, the American colonies would have had to send troops in when London ordered it.
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Let's calm this one down before the mods have to get involved. K?
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Let's calm this one down before the mods have to get involved. K?
No, no, no... Let this go. I'd LOVE to say I locked a thread because of Franco-American relations during the War of Independence from almost 250 years ago.
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As a descendant of UE Loyalists that got to Canada a few steps ahead of being tarred and feathered, I only have this to say: "Bloody Seps." :P
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I like how the English cover the war as the "War of the Colonies".
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You know, I wonder how the BBC and CBC would have covered that if they had TV back in those days? ;D
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No, no, no... Let this go. I'd LOVE to say I locked a thread because of Franco-American relations during the War of Independence from almost 250 years ago.
You're the mod, Jack. I leave it up to you. I just know that I tried. :)
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No, no, no... Let this go. I'd LOVE to say I locked a thread because of Franco-American relations during the War of Independence from almost 250 years ago.
You're the mod, Jack. I leave it up to you. I just know that I tried. :)
It'd win him some awards at Forum Mod Conventions in Las Vegas, that's for sure!
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Yeah the "What was your most 'out of left field' reason for locking a thread?" award.
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And if the French didn't get involved in the American war of independence in the first place, the American colonies would have had to send troops in when London ordered it.
Yes the French did help the US in the Revolution. This I cannot deny, but remember, that was mainly because they were still ticked off at England for the 100 Years War.
They held their own the first time (With British help, of course), and the second time, their government screwed the military over and they didn't have a chance (They certainly showed their courage at Dunkirk, however.).
And the US showed up late to both events. Try to be on time next time. ;)
Yes we didn't come to the party along with everyone else. I'm sorry but technically speaking, we are still a young nation. Why should a 5 year old have to settle things between midde schoolers.
Now we do accept blame for Vietnam, though it was a French Colony.
As a descendant of UE Loyalists that got to Canada a few steps ahead of being tarred and feathered, I only have this to say: "Bloody Seps." :P
I can't argue there. My family has defended the US since it was a british colony. Including the French and Indian war (our expansion of the 100 Years war). My family has killed it's share of French, British, German, and Viet-kong.
And I still blame the UK for Iraq. Their empire crumbling allowed a madman into power there. Yes, Cuba is our fault. We may not be perfect but we are still a little kid compared to the European powers.
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Now I know more about the War of Northern Aggression, I suppose ;)
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Now I know more about the War of Northern Aggression, I suppose ;)
What can I say, I am studying to be a high school history teacher.
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The French and Indian War happened at the same time as the Seven Years' War, from 1754 to 1763. The Hundred Years' War was fought between 1337 and 1453.
Regarding the American Revolutionary War, France did not openly support the American Revolution until 1778, when they felt the insurgents actually had a chance to defeat the British. France expected the United States of America to become an ally along with Spain to fight a new war against Great Britain. When France finally went war with Great Britain in 1793 after their own Revolution, the US stayed neutral, and actually signed a commercial treaty with Great Britain the following year.
What's the saying, "Nations do not have friends, they have interests" ?
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Now I know more about the War of Northern Aggression, I suppose ;)
Heh. don't joke. I know people who really do call it that. Right before they start blathering on with how we should rise up and <insert racist drek here>. Sometimes I hate living in a red state.
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Guys, there are reasons we're not supposed to talk politics much. Take it easy, before someone crosses a line and/or prompts a response that does so.
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Now I know more about the War of Northern Aggression, I suppose ;)
Heh. don't joke. I know people who really do call it that. Right before they start blathering on with how we should rise up and <insert racist drek here>. Sometimes I hate living in a red state.
The US Civil War/The War of Northern Aggression/Oh Look, The Seps Are Having A Bit Of A Spat. ;)
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Now I know more about the War of Northern Aggression, I suppose ;)
Heh. don't joke. I know people who really do call it that. Right before they start blathering on with how we should rise up and <insert racist drek here>. Sometimes I hate living in a red state.
Sadly, so do I. Nodding and smiling politely seems to work in situations like that.
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"Don't look at me, I'm Canadian." would probably get me shot at, as they'd think I said Communist. :P
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"Don't look at me, I'm Canadian." would probably get me shot at, as they'd think I said Communist. :P
When I'm in the USA a lot of the time people just want to hear me talk, no matter what it's about...
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People just typically want me to shut up.
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People just typically want me to shut up.
Not me! I look forward to your posts!
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People just typically want me to shut up.
Not me! I look forward to your posts!
Admit it, you're just trying to get the right windage. ;)
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People just typically want me to shut up.
Not me! I look forward to your posts!
Admit it, you're just trying to get the right windage. ;)
Is that wind as in breeze, or wind as in what you do with a rubber band?
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People just typically want me to shut up.
Not me! I look forward to your posts!
Admit it, you're just trying to get the right windage. ;)
Is that wind as in breeze, or wind as in what you do with a rubber band?
Wind as in breeze as in figuring bullet drop and wind adjustment as in sniping.
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With my luck, lightning strikes near me is just God walking his shots and trying to get on target. :P
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With my luck, lightning strikes near me is just God walking his shots and trying to get on target. :P
Amateur. Pros get it in one.
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With my luck, lightning strikes near me is just God walking his shots and trying to get on target. :P
Amateur. Pros get it in one.
Hey, at His age... ;)
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With my luck, lightning strikes near me is just God walking his shots and trying to get on target. :P
Amateur. Pros get it in one.
Hey, at His age... ;)
... He should be able to 'Boom! Headshot!' with no problem ...
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With my luck, lightning strikes near me is just God walking his shots and trying to get on target. :P
Amateur. Pros get it in one.
Hey, at His age... ;)
... He should be able to 'Boom! Headshot!' with no problem ...
... Unless He has performance anxiety...
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Or you take into account that he is firing from billions of light years away... and he has to bracket his target like they do with the m107. 5 rounds, two in front, two behind, and one dead center.
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Yeah the "What was your most 'out of left field' reason for locking a thread?" award.
Elsewhere, the infamous flamewars are on tipping, Bigfoot, Michelle Kwan, and mayonaese.
The most odd was probably one about Fraggles. It was a happy thread, taking about chlldhood memories, and then one poster pops up with a RAGING HATE-ON for Mokey Fraggle, who wants to rape and dismember.
Needless to say, that was a bit of a shock.
Gradually, it turns out that, no, not trolling, he just is filled with boiling rage for this muppet and wants to destroy it in terrible, terrible ways.
Thread winds up locked, but it's still one of those that you look back on and go, "Dubya tee eff, mate?"
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Wow! I don't think I was ever that passionate about Fraggles...
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At one time, it was the only thing worth watching on non-cable TV in my area.
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OK, Fraggles and David Suzuki.
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Don't get me wrong, as a young tacker I loved the show, and I still find myself humming the theme song now and again, but I wasn't obsessed with it to that degree...
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Yeah the "What was your most 'out of left field' reason for locking a thread?" award.
Elsewhere, the infamous flamewars are on tipping, Bigfoot, Michelle Kwan, and mayonaese.
The most odd was probably one about Fraggles. It was a happy thread, taking about chlldhood memories, and then one poster pops up with a RAGING HATE-ON for Mokey Fraggle, who wants to rape and dismember.
Needless to say, that was a bit of a shock.
Gradually, it turns out that, no, not trolling, he just is filled with boiling rage for this muppet and wants to destroy it in terrible, terrible ways.
Thread winds up locked, but it's still one of those that you look back on and go, "Dubya tee eff, mate?"
True, the fraggles weren't that big a deal.
Now if he'd raged against Elmo I might have been a quiet supporter. I mean, rape is a bit far, but dismemberment? sure.
... Oh, did I say that out loud?
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Elmo knows where you liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiive!!!
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worse, elmo knows when you're asleep.
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Why do I all of a sudden have this urge to play a Muppet RPG...
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Shadowrunning, Avenue Q style?
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I was thinking more Meet the Feebles, actually.
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So.... is there also an award for "Oddest Thread Derailment", or can anyone explain to me the link between 'Immortals lying low', 'the 100 year war', 'God's amazing sniper skills' and 'sesame street' in a single in a single coherent phrase? That's a nice collection of topics in a thread only 5 pages long.
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More like God's Artillery Skills... Lightning isn't exactly a precise thing. ;D
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So.... is there also an award for "Oddest Thread Derailment", or can anyone explain to me the link between 'Immortals lying low', 'the 100 year war', 'God's amazing sniper skills' and 'sesame street' in a single in a single coherent phrase? That's a nice collection of topics in a thread only 5 pages long.
What can I say we're talented. At least we didn't throw racial, political, or religious differences in there.
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So.... is there also an award for "Oddest Thread Derailment", or can anyone explain to me the link between 'Immortals lying low', 'the 100 year war', 'God's amazing sniper skills' and 'sesame street' in a single in a single coherent phrase? That's a nice collection of topics in a thread only 5 pages long.
What can I say we're talented. At least we didn't throw racial, political, or religious differences in there.
I think I can work out a rant about Mithra-worshipping Oompa Loompas and the outsourcing of confectionary jobs, if you really want.
Otherwise, I wonder if anyone recalls the name of the Dwarf that might be an Immortal? I know that no Orks or Trolls can lay claim to it, but I know that there was one, and only one, Dwarf who might.
Mind you, there aren't a lot of Dwarf-centric plots out there. Everybody overlooks the little guys.
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Mind you, there aren't a lot of Dwarf-centric plots out there. Everybody overlooks the little guys.
Unless they stand on a box.
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More like God's Artillery Skills... Lightning isn't exactly a precise thing. ;D
Only when wielded by amateurs
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Mind you, there aren't a lot of Dwarf-centric plots out there. Everybody overlooks the little guys.
Unless they stand on a box.
Christmas
Got a Dwarf on a box.
Hanukkah
Got a Dwarf on a box.
Kwanzaa
Got a Dwarf on a box.
Every single holiday it's a Dwarf on a box!
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So.... is there also an award for "Oddest Thread Derailment", or can anyone explain to me the link between 'Immortals lying low', 'the 100 year war', 'God's amazing sniper skills' and 'sesame street' in a single in a single coherent phrase? That's a nice collection of topics in a thread only 5 pages long.
This is obviously not a derailment but a carefully orchestrated plan on the part of IE's to reveal the truth to those who would seek it out.
The immortals laid low until the 100 years war which was when the (dark) god(s) began sniping at them to force them out in the open, but by using muppets the IEs were able to psychologically prepare mortals for accepting their upcoming return. "le duh."
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Christmas
Got a Dwarf on a box.
Hanukkah
Got a Dwarf on a box.
Kwanzaa
Got a Dwarf on a box.
Every single holiday it's a Dwarf on a box!
Halloween
The Dwarf got a rock. ;D
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Christmas
Got a Dwarf on a box.
Hanukkah
Got a Dwarf on a box.
Kwanzaa
Got a Dwarf on a box.
Every single holiday it's a Dwarf on a box!
Halloween
The Dwarf got a rock. ;D
More like a pumpkin. :P
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Are the only elves that survived from the Fourth World the big time players, or could there be others out there who simply decided to keep their heads down, and played supporting roles in getting things moving? I kindof like the idea of an immortal elf looking at a cocky young mage, and saying "Kid, I've forgotten more about magic than you will ever know."
I've always thought the links with the ED universe were some of the best bits of SR (even if the PCs would never be aware of them)...surely I'm not alone here? Granted I understand the arguments about the 'Mary Sue' effect but it strikes me that the immortals, while powerful compared to the PCs, are equally flawed individuals with centuries of spite, slights and wrongs to dwell on. I've not yet read the SL supliment on Harlequin but I've enjoyed the write ups on the other immortals...although I'm not convinced we needed stats for them.
Are they really any different (at least in terms of their relationships - loose term - to the PCs) than a powerful corp boss or Azzie blood mage? They can all kill you quite happily without breaking a sweat, but that's not what makes them interesting.
So, roll on more immortal stuff, at least as background to the universe rather than as a foil for the PCs
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I've always thought the links with the ED universe were some of the best bits of SR (even if the PCs would never be aware of them)...surely I'm not alone here? Granted I understand the arguments about the 'Mary Sue' effect but it strikes me that the immortals, while powerful compared to the PCs, are equally flawed individuals with centuries of spite, slights and wrongs to dwell on. I've not yet read the SL supliment on Harlequin but I've enjoyed the write ups on the other immortals...although I'm not convinced we needed stats for them.
Totally agree with that ;D
Anyway if Artifacts Unbopund is anything to go by, it looks like the Immortal Elves are back to the front stage...
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There's always a balancing act between introducing a cool character or plot point, and having said being take center stage away from the PCs.
It's easier in books, but even then one should play fair with the reader, and not have a deus ex machina suddenly resolve everything.
In the same vein, although it might be tempting (fun even) to speculate as to what events the IEs have had their hand in, it's probably better to have most of their plots run parallel to the course of history, rather than influencing it.
Considering that for every IE's plan, there are two others out there seeking to derail, either out spite, because it interferes with their plans, or just because they can. (I'm looking at you, Harlequin.)
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I liked the immortal wendigo that was in an earlier noval. That was a cool idea...
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I liked the immortal wendigo that was in an earlier noval. That was a cool idea...
Aren't all HMHVV I infected immortal? I know vampires and nosferatu are, but I am pretty sure the other kinds are immortal as well.
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All wendigos are immortal. Part of the package.
I need to double-check, since my brain has been getting scrambled, but I don't think goblins and dzoo-noo-qua are.
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They do not. That strikes me as odd.
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So Vampires, Nosferatu, Wendigos, and Banshees are immortal, but Goblins and Dzoo-noo-qua are not. Interesting. And I don't think any of the HMHVV II or III Infected are immortal.
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Unless I really slipped up somewhere, they aren't.
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Are the only elves that survived from the Fourth World the big time players, or could there be others out there who simply decided to keep their heads down, and played supporting roles in getting things moving? I kindof like the idea of an immortal elf looking at a cocky young mage, and saying "Kid, I've forgotten more about magic than you will ever know."
I've always thought the links with the ED universe were some of the best bits of SR (even if the PCs would never be aware of them)...surely I'm not alone here? Granted I understand the arguments about the 'Mary Sue' effect but it strikes me that the immortals, while powerful compared to the PCs, are equally flawed individuals with centuries of spite, slights and wrongs to dwell on. I've not yet read the SL supliment on Harlequin but I've enjoyed the write ups on the other immortals...although I'm not convinced we needed stats for them.
Are they really any different (at least in terms of their relationships - loose term - to the PCs) than a powerful corp boss or Azzie blood mage? They can all kill you quite happily without breaking a sweat, but that's not what makes them interesting.
So, roll on more immortal stuff, at least as background to the universe rather than as a foil for the PCs
Ever since finding out about the SR-ED link(s), I always wondered about the possibility of SR PCs being reincarnated ED PCs. Not reincarnated the way the IEs, GDs & Spirits are - more like public-consumption reincarnation: same soul, different person. All the IEs (particularly) were reincarnated as themselves - in fact 'reincarnation' may well be not the right term.
An added draw was the possibility of one of the immortals becoming infatuated with a PC, for reasons unknown for a good while.
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You know, I wonder how the BBC and CBC would have covered that if they had TV back in those days? ;D
Actually, my godfather is a radio editor for CBS. When I was a kid (17 years ago?) I can remember him passing me a cassette with a radio drama that was basically radio news broadcasts, including interviews with Minutemen, a press conference by Cornwallis, and one news report from a battlefield who's signal got cut off.
All anachronisms aside, it was a delight to hear. I'll see if i can hunt it down and somehow post it on youtube or something.
You know... I'd LOVE to hear an in-character world-building podcast for the Sixth World... maybe I'll work on developing one...
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One of my long-time characters is a vampire (playing out the weaknesses has always made it... well, not a NORMAL character, but I enjoy glass cannons.), and one of the runs someone ran for me involved some ED ties and the Ordo Maximus. At once point, he got to listen in on a conversation between someone he never identified but revealed out of game as an Immortal Elf and one of the exceptionally old Nosferatu high up in the Ordo. The Immortal Elf treated the Nosferatu (who may have been a 4th Age creature, himself) with disdain, not only because of his blood-sucking, megalomaniacal nature, but referred to him, and all Infected, as "False Immortals."
I always enjoyed this notion, that a dragon or IE would not consider the Infected's version of agelessness as a cheat, or a counterfeit.
As for the SR-ED ties, over-use in early editions aside, I've always enjoyed the crossovers, at least for world-building purposes. When you're building setting details for yourself, it's an incredibly rich resource. I can remember a run I did using Tainted Orichalcum from the ED Gamemaster Guide. Drove all the miners insane during the Hailey's Comet.
I also liked the idea "Ultimate-Level" NPCs. It's not that I like the Mary-Sue effect, but around 3rd ed, when it was saved for the likes of Lofyr and Hestaby: creatures so damned powerful, ancient, mysterious and wise that they are capable of whatever they need to do. Stats kind of... made them TOO tangible? I'm not sure how to say it. I suppose looking at the numbers is like finding the borders to an unexplored frontier. There's less to explore, or it at least feels that way to me.
Is Living Room Games still holding EarthDawn? Think they would mind SR doing the occasional (RARE) crossover?
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Is Living Room Games still holding EarthDawn? Think they would mind SR doing the occasional (RARE) crossover?
I think RedBrick holds Earthdawn nowadays. In any case there are some winks and nods to Earthdawn in some of the recent books (Artifacts Unbound notably) but I don't know if a "real" crossover could happen. Beyond the legal mumbo-jumno I think some of the current writers of Shadowrun have an "over my dead body" attitude on this subject ;D
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So I've noticed. ;)
Which is kind of a shame. Early overdoses aside (Damn near every first ed book and novel), the interactions are rich with possibility. Ah well.
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My attitude is less "over my dead body" than it is "who's got the time?" these days. I like them, and like the nods to them, but dealing with them much is just not my bailywick...though I might do something with Harley and Ehran one of these days, just to mess with people.
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That's really all I could ask for. :)
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That is one of the biggest mistakes I think Fasa did was letting the rights to Shadowrun and Earth Dawn go to two different companies.
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They didn't really have a choice.
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That is one of the biggest mistakes I think Fasa did was letting the rights to Shadowrun and Earth Dawn go to two different companies.
I think its hard to call anything a mistake without being privy to the factors influencing the decision. Its a shame though.
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The links are there, and shy of the Line Dev and every freelancer deciding to completely sever them, and no future Freelancer or Dev deciding to pick them back up>, they will always be around.
Hell, I've been having great fun slipping things into Missions and AU. I wouldn;t want it to overwhelm Shadowrun, but it's fun to have easter eggs and linttle things to make old players go "Hey, cool!"
It's a balancing act, to be sure, but so long as I'm involved with SR, the links will be around. Not used very often, to be sure, but they are there. It just doesn't control Shadowrun (and SR doesn't control it) anymore. So if Red Brick kills off the dragon that is supposed to become Lofwyr, no big deal. And if we decide to introduce something that's supposed to be from teh 4th age, we don't have to go looking at Earthdawn and RedBrick to see if it would have been possible. We're seperate realities now. So Shadowrun's past is "Earthdawn-3", with Red Brck being "Earthdawn 1" and Living Room Games being "Earthdawn 2" (Since they diverged a bit, and at one point were both developing a version of the game, LRG with 2nd edition, and RB with a revised 1st edition). Same source, but different worlds.
Bull
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As long as we don't get into Earthdawn-69. Those books have to come in plain brown wrappers, and have to be hidden behind the counters. ;)
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As long as we don't get into Earthdawn-69. Those books have to come in plain brown wrappers, and have to be hidden behind the counters. ;)
Pointing Ears, Tusks and Immortals with far too much time on their hands! Whooahh!
um... oh... wrong forum.... :-[
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This got /gonewild pretty damn fast. ;)
Definitely digging on the easter eggs, Bull. Good on ya.
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This got /gonewild pretty damn fast. ;)
Of course, I'm here. ;D
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CanRay, please stop channelling Harlequin :o ;)
I kid, of course.
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CanRay, please stop channelling Harlequin :o ;)
Channeling? What makes you think I'm not him? ;D
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CanRay, please stop channelling Harlequin :o ;)
Channeling? What makes you think I'm not him? ;D
Because HE gets to play more than you do :P ^^
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CanRay, please stop channelling Harlequin :o ;)
Channeling? What makes you think I'm not him? ;D
Because HE gets to play more than you do :P ^^
Ooh, BURN!
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CanRay, please stop channelling Harlequin :o ;)
Channeling? What makes you think I'm not him? ;D
Because HE gets to play more than you do :P ^^
Ooh, BURN!
See, I was just gonna say "Harlequin's got 12 Charisma." :P
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And yours was the kinder of the two comments....
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Ooh, BURN!
Buy Burn, the new Shadowrun Missions!!! DO IT NOW!!!
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Somehow, somewhere, there's gotta be a game CanRay can play in . . .
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Somehow, somewhere, there's gotta be a game CanRay can play in . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BQMgCy-n6U
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Somehow, somewhere, there's gotta be a game CanRay can play in . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BQMgCy-n6U
My response, sir.
http://www.theargonath.cc/characters/gollum/sounds/burns.wav
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BEHOLD! I AM THE THREAD NECROMANCER! KNEEL BEFORE MY POWER!
*ahem* Anywho, I'm really hoping the immortal character I created will become accepted into the fold. That said, my introduction of her in Blood of the King could have been written far better than it was. It was not the story I actually wanted to tell, but without it Maisie's story wouldn't make any sense. I rushed, and I regret that. I swear, I will go back and fix it.