[ZeConster]

So, on how much essence you need to survive: 1+. You always round down with essence, so as soon as you have 1 essence and you lose even 0.1 essence more, that's it, you're done. You count as having 0 essence and are now dead.

That must be new. There are plenty of characters rocking less than 1 essence out there. Care to link?

I'd like to see that link as well, since that means the Street Samurai character in the book is dead.

That sounds like a Shiamalan-like plot twist, actually: "Your street samurai has been dead all along".

[DigitalZombie]

...But does that mean according to Aaron that I can diagnose my katana and gain several bonus dices to attack?? ... that doesnt seem right. And those muscle replacements are still wireless cabable devices, so they should also work.... I think I will houserule, that one cant do that.

This thread did raise a whole new questionfor me though.
I cant run diagnostics on my commlink or deck when Im using it (as the device gets merged with my persona) but I can still run diagnostics on them if I were to repair them, seems fair enough. BUT what happens if I slave the deck to my commlink? (for the good old classical firewall master stat, leaving the cyberdeck with its 3 highest ratings on attack, sleaze and response)
Is it A) I can only use one persona at a time, and therefore NOT use the cyberdeck at all, I would have to switch persona (and loosing the commlinks superior firewall ,if I wanted to hack) and not be able to gain diagnostic power on my comm\deck
or B) The commlink is my persona, and therefore cant be diagnosed. The deck is a slaved device to my commlink (gaining its firewall) and therefore shows up as a device, making it elligible for the diagnostic anyway, And I can still use it to hack with, as its a slaved device.?

B) seems like it just totally ignored the limitation put on by diagnostics, making a technomancer backed decker nasty (and using shenanigans like the commlinks superior and cheaper firewall)

[ZeConster]

...But does that mean according to Aaron that I can diagnose my katana and gain several bonus dices to attack?? ... that doesnt seem right. And those muscle replacements are still wireless cabable devices, so they should also work.... I think I will houserule, that one cant do that.

I wasn't aware katanas were electronic devices with device ratings. Page 228 certainly says they can't be bricked, which at the very least heavily implies a non-electronic nature.

B) seems like it just totally ignored the limitation put on by diagnostics, making a technomancer backed decker nasty (and using shenanigans like the commlinks superior and cheaper firewall)

Cleaner and Static Veil already make a technomancer-backed decker pretty sweet, actually.

[Xenon]

You are no longer awakened if your max magic reach 0.
You can not cast spells etc if your Magic Rating reach 0, but you can still increase your magic rating with Karma to cast spells again as long as your max magic rating is 1+

if your max magic ever reach 0 then you become mundane forever.

book reference p.278:

If your Magic is reduced to zero, you can no longer use any skill requiring the Magic attribute, even if your maximum Rating is still greater than zero (but you can still raise the attribute with Karma and then get back to the spellslinging). If your maximum rating falls to zero, you’ve burned out, losing all magical abilities, including astral perception and projection. You are mundane forever. Burnedout magicians retain all magical skills and knowledge, but they lack the ability to use them. All Magical active skills except for Arcana become Knowledge skills.

Having max magic 6 and magic rating 3 after step 2 (special attributes from metatype) and step 3 (magic priority) of character creation and then drop to max magic 3 and magic rating 0 due to essence loss in step 6 (spending resources) and then finally increasing your magic rating from 0 to 3 (with a max magic rating of 3) at step 7 spending your left over karma (in this case 30 Karma).
- Is perfectly legal and supported by the book (book reference p.65-98 Creating a Shadowrunner)




There is actually no rule in SR5 that state what happens if you reach 0 essence. In previous editions you would die or turn into a mindless cyberzombie NPC if you ever reached essence 0.00 (maybe the startup rules state what happens...? this was the case for what happens when you fill your condition monitor - also not explicit described in SR5 core). Edit. Shadowrun Fifth Edition Quick-Start Rules does not mention a lower essence limit either. Ill add it to Errata.


The only SR5 book reference is that a critter that use Essence Drain will kill you if you reach 0 (and at this point he might infect you if he got that power as well). p.397 Essence Drain Critter Power.

Even if I can't confirm RAW for this I think it is safe to assume that RAI is that you die at 0.00 essence, not at 0.99 essence.

[DigitalZombie]

After rereading some sections in the book, you are ofcourse correct ZeConster.
The katana is not an electronic device, but it has an inbuilt computer; that takes care of informing you when its in need of a rub down with an oilcloth (with oil produced by its own manufactors ofcourse), when it needs sharpening, general stress built up, storing your favorite anime series, registration numbers for your legal or fake permit and contact and adress information on its manufactors, a weapon ARO in AR and lastly where you can buy a matching wakasashi.  Bricking that computer wouldnt do squat to the lethality of the sword, but I guess using the sprites diagnostic would help you maintain\repair it.
(but bricking its computer makes its completely invisible in the matrix)

But if one where to ramp up the engine in the vibro sword, it could get really nasty

[Xenon]

Q Can you have a negative essence in SR5?
and a follow up on that
Q What happens when you reach 0 essence in SR5?


The SR5 rule book does not answer this as far as I can see.


In previous editions you died or turned into a cyberzombie if you reached 0.00 essence.
I guess RAI is the same for SR5....

[ZeConster]

Q Can you have a negative essence in SR5?
and a follow up on that
Q What happens when you reach 0 essence in SR5?


The SR5 rule book does not answer this as far as I can see.


In previous editions you died or turned into a cyberzombie if you reached 0.00 essence.
I guess RAI is the same for SR5....

It's currently described only in the Essence Drain power (if your Essence is drained to 0, you die) on page 397 and in the Essence Loss critter weakness (once their Essence is reduced to 0, they die in Body + Willpower days unless they replenish it) on page 401, but it should definitely be put on page 52 as well.

[ZeConster]

Having max magic 6 and magic rating 3 after step 2 (special attributes from metatype) and step 3 (magic priority) of character creation and then drop to max magic 3 and magic rating 0 due to essence loss in step 6 (spending resources) and then finally increasing your magic rating from 0 to 3 (with a max magic rating of 3) at step 7 spending your left over karma (in this case 30 Karma).
- Is perfectly legal and supported by the book (book reference p.65-98 Creating a Shadowrunner)

Did we ever get a response on "does your current Magic level or the pre-essence-based-loss Magic level determine how much Karma you need to spend to raise your Magic"? Because your interpretation seems like it opens the door to taking Magic 2 as an Adept, then taking 3.01-4.00 Essence worth of 'ware (reducing Magic to 0 (actually -2?) and max Magic to 2) and then spending 15 Karma to raise it back to 2 in Step 7.

[T-Hatchet]

The difference between the rules on page 250 and 287 where Resonance ever reaching zero causes burnout of technomancer abilities and Max Magic reaching zero causes burnout of magical abilities does propmpt me to ask if this was intended. p250 also does not seem to take in to account the possibility of having exceptional Resonance attribute positive quality ether.

[Xenon]

You spend karma at step 7 so from that aspect it should be ok. But I doubt it would be OK with negative magic rating at any step of chargen.

No, I never got an official response.

[Xenon]

Set data bomb p.242
(complex Action)
Marks Required: 1
Test: Software + Logic [Sleaze] v. (Device Rating x 2)

There is a ( ) around Device Rating x 2


Q Should we read this as when you set a bomb on a file that is located in your own cyberdeck it will not try to resist you?

[Unahim]

1. Anything with a Device Rating.
2. I don't see any other way to do so, so yes.
3. How does a sprite get a direct neural interface?
4. Sprites use their powers through the wireless Matrix, so no.
5. Neither a living persona nor another sprite is a device (as defined on p. 219), so no.
6. a and b, and possibly some instances of c.
7. No, because you can't use trodes or a satellite uplink on your living persona. You're either using your Resonance abilities or you're not.

Based on your answers, people are now trying to rule that Machine Sprites can be used on Muscle Replacement to get the bonus to any strength/agility roll, Skillwires to get the bonus to Software, Skilljacks, and pretty much every single diceroll in the entire game.

Please tell me that was an unforeseen consequence, and that Machine Sprites are not supposed to use Diagnostics on everyone from the melee street samurai to the Decker's skillwires?

[Unahim]

Seems I'm still struggling around with old concepts here.

[DigitalZombie]

What attribute does a jumpedin rigger use when cutting down nosy corp kids with his ares duelist? is it logic+blades or agility+blades? what about other physical linked skills like palming?

[Xenon]

... taking Magic 2 as an Adept, then taking 3.01-4.00 Essence worth of 'ware (reducing Magic to 0 (actually -2?) and max Magic to 2) and then spending 15 Karma to raise it back to 2 in Step 7.

Actually, this is probably OK after all.
I no longer see why it should be illegal to install cyberwear if you have 0 magic rating and 3 max magic. Your magic rating will stay at null... and as long as you have max magic 1+ you can always increase it with karma.

You will lose all your power points and adept powers, but you get new power points you can use for other adept powers once you raise your magic rating with Karma.

Note that this only work if you plan on leaving chargen with a very low magic rating (max 3 i guess). A very powerful advantage of going [physical] adept is that you can start with improved reflex 3 (or improved reflexes 2 and a focus 4 qi focus with improved reflexes to give you 3) - but this require that you to leave chargen with magic rating 4+

Also note that special attribute points from metatype are wasted if you allocate them to magic rating if you plan on doing this. You can still place them in Edge (or you might pick an even lower metatype priority that have less special attribute points to allocate).

...and you probably need to prioritize resources a lot higher than the average [physical] adept since cyberwear is pretty expansive (and you will need your leftover karma to increase your magic rating rather than converting them to resources).