[Aaron]

Preparations vs. Spellcasting: The Drain Edition

Are preparations supposed to be inherently more dangerous to produce?

Spellcasting, Step 4: Cast the Spell (p. 281): If the number of hits (not net hits) you get (after applying the limit or Edge spending) exceeds your Magic rating, the spell’s Drain is Physical instead of Stun damage.

Based on that description, it sounds like you're not going to run into Physical Drain unless you set the force of the spell higher than your magic rating (or use a limitbreaker of some sort).

Alchemy, Step 6: Resist Drain (p.305): If you get more hits on your Alchemy Test than your Magic rating, the Drain is Physical, otherwise it’s Stun.

No mention of calculating hits after applying the limit. The exemplar on the same page makes me think that the final potency should be used for determining whether drain is Phyiscal or Stun, but I can't find anything that clarifies that.

If there's a limit in place (and there is, the Force of the preparation), then one can't get more hits than the limit unless a limit breaker is involved. Basically, it's exactly the same as spellcasting.

Oi. I need to stop exhausting discussion on things.

The Subject: Machine Sprites and Diagnostics
1. Is anything with wireless considered an "Electronic Device?" If not, what is considered an Electronic Device?
2. May a Machine Sprite use Diagnostics on an item through a wireless connection?
3. May a Machine Sprite use Diagnostics on an item through a DNI?
4. May a Machine Sprite use Diagnostics on an item if its only connection is visual / through sensors?
5. May a Machine Sprite use Diagnostics on a Living Persona or a fellow Sprite?
6. What is required to be "using" the item? Is it
a. The item in question is modifying the diceroll somehow. I.E. Diagnostics on a Smartlink applies to guns benefiting from its bonus.
b. The item in question is required for the diceroll period. I.E. It works when performing Matrix actions with a Cyberdeck because you can't perform Matrix actions without it.
c. Something else entirely.
7. Technically a repeat of 6, but its the one I actually care about so I want to be extra sure. Can a Technomancer use Diagnostics on Trodes or a Satellite Uplink to gain the benefits on their Living Persona while using those Trodes or Satellite Uplink with their Living Persona.

1. Anything with a Device Rating.
2. I don't see any other way to do so, so yes.
3. How does a sprite get a direct neural interface?
4. Sprites use their powers through the wireless Matrix, so no.
5. Neither a living persona nor another sprite is a device (as defined on p. 219), so no.
6. a and b, and possibly some instances of c.
7. No, because you can't use trodes or a satellite uplink on your living persona. You're either using your Resonance abilities or you're not.

[JackVII]

Thanks for the response, Aaron! Makes sense, just a little wonky having asymmetrical language. Then again, if we had to wait for language symmetry, t would probably be a few more years before this book would have come out.

[Crunch]

So diagnostics on Muscle Replacement would apply it's teamwork bonus to ANY Str or Agi related test?

[Chrona]

So diagnostics on Muscle Replacement would apply it's teamwork bonus to ANY Str or Agi related test?

No.  Very No. You cannot use it on vat grown muscles.

[SoulGambit]

Thank you Aaron! You cleared up a lot of stuff. Not happy with 7 but meh... I'll live.

Hrm... This makes a classical hacking Technomancer less viable due to fewer dice, re-emphasizing a "combat Technomancer" and emphasis on using their abilities. Its... a hard blow... but, I suppose, not an unwarranted one. On the upside(?), the Technomancer + Decker combo reigns supreme. Musing for another thread at another time.

More imminently, this brings up a question of a Living Persona's relationship with off-the-grid Matrix stuff--primarily privately stored files.

1) Can a Living Persona connect to an archive or device in a LAN or otherwise off the Matrix through a Data Tap that is set to Wireless?

2) Security Spyder Jones has a Cyberdeck that he uses, but is "Owned" by his company--something that is hinted at as being the norm. Jones has three marks on his device and permission to use it freely in his line of work, and is currently using it. Can a Technomancer use Puppeteer on Jones' Cyberdeck to perform the Invite Mark or other Owner-only actions (Full Matrix Defense, Invite Mark, Jack In, Jack Out, Jam Signals, Switch Interface Mode)? If so, does Jones spend his action doing them or does the "Owner," who may not even be otherwise present in Matrix Combat?

3) In the case of Invite Mark, who between the Technomancer, the Owner, and Mr. Jones (the user) can take back or modify the invitation? Assuming no other indicators, are Mr. Jones or the Owner aware enough of the action to do so?

[Crunch]

That was my reading as well, but going by Aaron's answers it seems that diagnostics would work on anything with a device rating regardless of whether it directly or indirectly impacts the roll.

Since the book is clear thar anything with a wireless presence is a device and that virtually everything has a wireless presence, the conclusion is that, if Aaron is correct, then essentially diagnostics is an across the board bonus to absolutely everything.

Relevant citations.

p234

A device in the Matrix is any wireless device in the real
world.

p 417

Even non-electronic items
without any moving parts have built-in computers, so
now your pants can store your favorite music (and tell
you when it’s time to do the laundry).

 p 420

Because nearly every piece of gear and ’ware is wireless
capable,

slipped by SoulGambit

[T-Hatchet]

I would like to ask for another rules clarification. It relates to Essence and Magic loss during character creation. Does Essence lost to cyberware reduce the points I get from my magic priority and metatype priority? for instance with priority E for Metatype with special point going into magic and priority D for Magic going for Aspected Magician would buying Wired-Reflexes 2 at character creation give me a starting  Magic attribute of 3 or 0? If it reduces my magic attribute to 0 could I buy my magic attribute back up to 3 with karma during step 7 of character creation?
What is the lowest I Essence a Character can have and stay alive? Assuming I can take my Essence as low 0.1 If I take exceptional attribute magic and Magic priority D (or greater)  at character creation could such a low essence character raise his Magic attribute up to 1 and then proceed to raise it further after successive initiations?

Small clarifications
The thing that prompted me to ask about the timing of Magic and Essence loss was p250 "Whenever you lose Essence (after character generation)." in relation to technomancers.
The equivalent entry on p278 makes no mention of the timing of Essence loss.

[Unahim]

So, on how much essence you need to survive: 1+. You always round down with essence, so as soon as you have 1 essence and you lose even 0.1 essence more, that's it, you're done. You count as having 0 essence and are now dead.

Every point of essence you lose loses you a point of magic, doesn't matter if you got it from your metatype or your priority in magic, or whatever. If at any point in life a character reaches 0 magic, he or she burns out and is no longer Awakened. It's not really clear if you could drop points in magic and then rebuy them with karma at the end of char gen, but even if it is allowed it is a clear perversion of the rules and an obvious attempt to get your magic at a way cheaper rate than what you should be getting. If you want to drop 3 essence and have 3 magic, you should start with 6 magic. It's pure munchkinism to try and first drop 3 points, and then buy 1->3 magic because of it being cheaper than 4-6, and if I were your GM I'd never allow it.

Your mileage may vary, however. Ask your GM, maybe he's softer than I on this.

[JackVII]

So, on how much essence you need to survive: 1+. You always round down with essence, so as soon as you have 1 essence and you lose even 0.1 essence more, that's it, you're done. You count as having 0 essence and are now dead.

That must be new. There are plenty of characters rocking less than 1 essence out there. Care to link?

[Aaron]

Thanks for the response, Aaron! Makes sense, just a little wonky having asymmetrical language. Then again, if we had to wait for language symmetry, t would probably be a few more years before this book would have come out.

I think part of the problem is that one person wrote the procedure for Spellcasting while a different person wrote the procedure for Alchemy. The former (and more precise) rules were written well after the latter.

[Aaron]

Thank you Aaron! You cleared up a lot of stuff. Not happy with 7 but meh... I'll live.

Hrm... This makes a classical hacking Technomancer less viable due to fewer dice, re-emphasizing a "combat Technomancer" and emphasis on using their abilities. Its... a hard blow... but, I suppose, not an unwarranted one. On the upside(?), the Technomancer + Decker combo reigns supreme. Musing for another thread at another time.

Forgive my curiosity, but how do you figure technomancers have fewer dice? They get the same attribute and skill options as deckers get. And it's possible for a technomancer to start with 6 5 5 5 for Matrix attributes, while a decker is generally limited to 5 4 4 2. What am I missing?

1) Can a Living Persona connect to an archive or device in a LAN or otherwise off the Matrix through a Data Tap that is set to Wireless?

If I understand your question (i.e. target to tap to technomancer), then yes.

2) Security Spyder Jones has a Cyberdeck that he uses, but is "Owned" by his company--something that is hinted at as being the norm. Jones has three marks on his device and permission to use it freely in his line of work, and is currently using it. Can a Technomancer use Puppeteer on Jones' Cyberdeck to perform the Invite Mark or other Owner-only actions (Full Matrix Defense, Invite Mark, Jack In, Jack Out, Jam Signals, Switch Interface Mode)? If so, does Jones spend his action doing them or does the "Owner," who may not even be otherwise present in Matrix Combat?

No, because the cyberdeck isn't a separate icon while Jones is using it, it's his persona. Jones can invite a mark on his persona (because it's his), but not the deck icon (because it's not his). As to whether or not Jones spends his own action doing pushed Matrix actions, that's in the complex form description.

3) In the case of Invite Mark, who between the Technomancer, the Owner, and Mr. Jones (the user) can take back or modify the invitation? Assuming no other indicators, are Mr. Jones or the Owner aware enough of the action to do so?

That'd be the owner of whatever did the inviting. There's nothing erasing the memory of whoever did the inviting, so they're aware of the invitation.

[FastJack]

So, on how much essence you need to survive: 1+. You always round down with essence, so as soon as you have 1 essence and you lose even 0.1 essence more, that's it, you're done. You count as having 0 essence and are now dead.

That must be new. There are plenty of characters rocking less than 1 essence out there. Care to link?

I'd like to see that link as well, since that means the Street Samurai character in the book is dead.

You don't round down Essence for anything. Every fraction of a point of Essence will drop your Magic and Resonance abilities a full point. But even with the Social limit, you round Essence UP to calculate the limit.

[Raiden]

Hackers can have 5+ stats in log,int, and will easily even on art. C. Also an adept hacker at magic D can get 23 dice without VR bonus out of char gen.  With a limit of 7-7-6-5 I think.

[firebug]

No, because the cyberdeck isn't a separate icon while Jones is using it, it's his persona. Jones can invite a mark on his persona (because it's his), but not the deck icon (because it's not his). As to whether or not Jones spends his own action doing pushed Matrix actions, that's in the complex form description.

Hmm, the fact that a commlink/deck/whatever isn't available as a device or icon when it is a persona is a pretty big deal.  For one, relating to Technomancers again, it means you couldn't have the whole "Machine Sprite using Diagnostics for a bonus to everything Matrix" on a deck because as soon as it was used, it becomes a Persona and isn't a valid target.

Forgive my curiosity, but how do you figure technomancers have fewer dice? They get the same attribute and skill options as deckers get. And it's possible for a technomancer to start with 6 5 5 5 for Matrix attributes, while a decker is generally limited to 5 4 4 2. What am I missing?

The issue with TMs having lower dice pools is that, it seems, Resonance doesn't really do shit for you.  Complex Forms are already weighed against just basic Programs and other stuff a deck can do, and not being a TM means having a free spot for your E Priority and the ability to use things like Cerebral Boosters without a power-reducing drawback.  With cyberware and buying a good deck, a decker can have better limits and attributes.  I dunno about you, but with Attributes B I couldn't afford a 5 or 6 in all my mentals, seeing as I already had 1 STR and didn't want to have to reduce my REA, AGI and BOD below 3 just to have limits comprable to those you can buy with money.  Deckers don't need Charisma at all, as well, allowing them more flexibility with their attributes.  Even Intuition isn't as needed because only what, two actions use it for the dice pool, if you're in VR you're already getting +3d6 initiative dice, and it isn't related to your Sleaze cap.

With an automatic Resonance/Magic Priority of E, that's probably going to be a D in Metatype (meaning either 2 more Edge or being an elf), C or B in Skills or Attributes, and A in Resources.  Spending half of that on a deck to get 6/5/5/3 is an easy choice, with the ability to spend another 250,000 or so nuyen on things like cybernetics, drones, vehicles, etc.  With their attributes, they can ignore Charisma, only need moderate Intuition, and can thus jack up Logic and Willpower, then buy a Cerebral Booster to have higher Logic than a TM should ever be capable of.

[RHat]

Forgive my curiosity, but how do you figure technomancers have fewer dice? They get the same attribute and skill options as deckers get. And it's possible for a technomancer to start with 6 5 5 5 for Matrix attributes, while a decker is generally limited to 5 4 4 2. What am I missing?

The general argument is that hackers can more easily get higher skill and attribute priorities (while not needing to allocate as many attributes or skills), and can combine that with the ability to directly augment their most important attribute.  And seeing as Matrix Attributes don't give you any dice...

That, and they're not going to be running on the CM penalties that technomancers will be.