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[SR5] Rules Clarifications and FAQ

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Aaron

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« Reply #225 on: <08-03-13/0916:43> »
How do Sensor Arrays and the Sensor Function slots within them work? Should the number of slots equal the rating of the array?

The sensor array housing can hold up to eight sensors, each of which have the rating of the sensor array (p. 445).

The Wireless Bonus rule state that all devices need to be wireless ON, meshed into your wireless personal area network and have access to the Matrix as a whole.

Q: Can there be a case when you need access to DNI to take advantage of a wireless bonus?
Q: Can there be a case when you need access to AR to take advantage of a wireless bonus?

Devices don't need to be meshed into your personal area network to have their wireless bonuses. They just need to be "meshed," a Sixth World slang term meaning "connected to the Matrix" (p. 216). So the answers to your questions are no and no, respectively.

[spoiler]
Sidenote: I've been finding that, for the most part among those who have posted about the Matrix rules, the better one understood the SR4 Matrix rules, the harder a time one has understanding the SR5 Matrix rules. Since this is probably due to the number of concepts that were not carried over from one edition to the next, I think we did a disservice to some players. If I could travel back in time, I'd add a sidebar that said something like "WARNING: forget everything you know about the SR4 Matrix rules. It won't help."
[/spoiler]

In this thread http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=11992.0 we more or less came to the conclusion that the only fire mode that let you attack multiple enemies with a single firearm are SA-Burst, Long-BF and FA in Suppressive Fire.

Q: Can you confirm that to hit multiple targets with FA-mode you need to use Suppressive Fire?
(that you can not use Simple FA or Complex FA to attack multiple targets - unless you dual wield).

Q: Can you confirm that to hit multiple targets with BF-mode you need to use Long-BF
(that you can not use BF [that spit out 3 bullets in 0.1 - 0.2 seconds] to attack multiple targets - unless you dual wield).

I'm not sure that conclusion is supported by the rules. The descriptions of fire modes on p. 179 indicate that Semi-Auto Burst, Burst Fire, Long Burst, and Full Auto modes all can use the multiple attacks option. I'll check the errata to see if multiple attacks with a firearm presupposes a Complex Action.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #226 on: <08-03-13/0921:03> »
So knowledge of the SR4 Matrix is a downside for understanding the SR5 Matrix? I haven't checked the Matrix section yet but it's good to know it will be really easy for me to understand. :)
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MagusRogue

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« Reply #227 on: <08-03-13/1211:44> »
Thanks Aaron!!! Yeah I understand its not the same thing, but the Limits should still remain the same. Besides, this potentially breaks the game, as I could cast a Level 18 Data Spike while running a Biofeedback Echo and kill... well, most anyone, and all it takes is one Submersion. Even without the Echo, that's an insane limit, one that's definately and EASILY obtainable by starting pcs, and far more than other limits by far. Yeah sure then I get to be rolling with 18P damage from Fading.... and that's another thing as well. If the Level limit is Resonance x 3, but the Physical marker is Resonance (like Magic), then thats going to have serious self-fragging capabilities.... Just wanted you guys to seriously think this one over, as Resonance x 3 is incredibly excessive.

Forgive me for pointing this out, but technomacners can't "cast" Data Spike. Data Spike is a Matrix Action. I think you're thinking of Resonance Spike, and Level doesn't factor into the effect of that complex form except as a limit. Also, the Biofeedback Echo acts as a program, and the rules don't allow for programs to affect complex forms. Until there's a complex form for biofeedback damage, you don't have to worry.

Yeah I was thinking Resonance Spike, my bad. Still a 18 damage limit on Resonance Spike is pretty dang nasty... And I wasn't aware that the Resonance [Program] Echo didn't allow the programs to be used with Complex Forms.... Well that's not so bad, but I still would like some thought on it. Some of the Complex Forms could easily be abused with Resoance x 3, and there's also the severe Fading issues. Thanks for the consideration!

Xenon

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« Reply #228 on: <08-03-13/1813:36> »
My guess is that it's a special rule that applies to throwing weapons, since the rule you quoted is in the section on throwing weapons and not in the general rule for multiple attacks. I'll check with Da Boss to make sure, though.

What I really wanted to know is what happens when you dual wield two firearms ;)

If a [another] game let you dual wield, the "norm" use to be that you can fire both weapons at the same target.
Some games also let you hit two individual targets, once with each weapon - but that is normally an edge case.

Since you are allowed to hit one target multiple times with throwing weapons it felt natural that you were allowed to hit one target twice if you dual wield two firearms in addition to hitting two individual targets, once with each weapon.




Devices don't need to be meshed into ...
I was thinking about Change Linked Device Mode on p.163 (and Eject Smartgun Clip on p.164) that both quite specific mention you need DNI to take advantage of various action economy wireless bonuses including, but not limited to smartgun firemode.

If you don't need DNI - how DO you take advantage of the various action economy wireless bonuses that let you do things with a free action (probably the Change Linked Device Mode Free Action) instead of the [manual or AR] simple action Change Device Mode.... Thought only technomancers could influence the matrix directly with their mind without using some sort of DNI :)

...that some wireless bonus would require DNI - in addition to have access to the matrix
 



I'm not sure that conclusion is supported by the rules. The descriptions of fire modes on p. 179 indicate that Semi-Auto Burst, Burst Fire, Long Burst, and Full Auto modes all can use the multiple attacks option. I'll check the errata to see if multiple attacks with a firearm presupposes a Complex Action.
Yes, we had (have) a long discussion about this earlier today in the linked thread.
Seem as if there are different rules on different pages that say different things and/or that there are rules missing.

P.179 State that you can use BF weapons to fire at multiple targets with the same burst, Long Burst weapons to fire at multiple targets with the same burst. Full auto weapons to fire at multiple targets with the same burst.
P.179 Also state that you can use suppressive fire for a combination of controlled and fully automatic bursts focused over a narrow area and directed at anything that moves. Suppressive fire is explained in detail, but it does not actually state which weapons that can use it (only that it cost 20 bullets over the cause of a full combat turn).
P.165/167 State that you can dual wield SS, SA, BF, Long BF, simple FA and complex FA to do multiple attacks.
P.165/167 State that you can use a single firearm for a SA burst or a Long Burst to attack multiple targets within Short or Medium range (but it does not state that you can use a single firearm in BF, simple FA or complex FA to fire at multiple targets)
P.164 State that you can do multiple attacks when combined with Fire Weapon Action, Throw Weapon Action, Melee Attack Action, Reckless Spellcasting, or Cast Spell Action.
P.196 State that you can take Multiple Attacks with a single melee weapon and when dual wielding firearms or melee (but it does not state that you can use a single firearm or throwing weapons to take the multiple attacks free action).
P.196 Also state you are limited to weapon skill / 2 targets.

Q If p.179 is correct - where are the rules at p.165/167 describing number of targets, stray shots between targets, how far away targets can stand, what their defense modifier will be, does it act like a cone spray, if so size of cone, do targets need to stay at close or medium range like the complex action description for SA-Burst and Long Burst on p.167. what happen when you use 3 bullet burst and have automatic skill of 7+ and according to p.196 can attack 4 targets. How do you even split an individual BF on different targets (tap trigger once and it fire 3 bullets in 0.1 to 0.2 seconds...)

Q If p.165/167 is correct (and you can only attack multiple targets with SA burst, Long BF and suppressive fire) why does p.179 state you can attack multiple targets with BF, simple FA and complex FA (or is p.179 talking about attacking with SA Burst, BF, Long BF, simple FA and complex FA while you dual wield...? That would actually make most rules fall in place and make a lot of sense from a real life perspective - but in that case the wording on p.179 is very bad).

Q If p.196 is correct (and you can only take the Multiple Attack Free Action if you have a single melee weapon or dual wield melee or firearms) then why does p.167 state you can use SA Burst and Long Burst to attack multiple targets when you wield only one firearm and p.179 that state you can attack multiple targets with SA Burst, BF, Long BF, simple FA and complex FA.

Q Do you need a weapon with FA mode to use Suppressive fire. p.179 only mention you need [up to] 20 bullets...
« Last Edit: <08-03-13/1831:29> by Xenon »

Raiden

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« Reply #229 on: <08-03-13/2029:37> »
Do you get. +2 when making an attack with shock gloves?
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Dracain

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« Reply #230 on: <08-03-13/2322:23> »
A spell "attached" to a sustaining focus becomes "unattached" and disappears when the focus is turned off, which means every time someone because unconscious, the spell disappears and needs to be recast upon waking.  So a Mage who wants their aug spells up at all times will need to recast every morning. 

Sichr

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« Reply #231 on: <08-04-13/0352:30> »
I got a question about character conversion:
When transfering points for skills like Shadowing or Dodge, what to do with specialization? Skill transfers to karma in Rating x 2 ratio, but specializations have nothing like that mentioned. Any clue?

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #232 on: <08-04-13/0545:36> »
As Dracain pointed out elsewhere, Page 318 mentions Foci deactivate on unconsciousness.
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Xenon

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« Reply #233 on: <08-04-13/0644:35> »
Do you get. +2 when making an attack with shock gloves?
You do as long as the intention of the attack is simply to make contact.
The action is described under Touch-Only Attack p.187

Also when just making contact is enough the attacker, not the defender, win on a tie.
Touch-Only Attack p.187 and Grazing Hit p.173
(Shock gloves were given as a specific example)



You will not get +2 if you got go all out with a punch with the intention of dealing full unarmed damage.

The real question then is rather what happens damage wise.
Will you deal only unarmed damage. Only shock damage. Will they stack.
I don't have a rule supported answer for that :(
« Last Edit: <08-04-13/0652:48> by Xenon »

Novocrane

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« Reply #234 on: <08-04-13/0844:27> »
How do Sensor Arrays and the Sensor Function slots within them work? Should the number of slots equal the rating of the array?

The sensor array housing can hold up to eight sensors, each of which have the rating of the sensor array (p. 445).
Perhaps I should have asked, "What reason is there to take less than the maximum of eight sensor functions in a sensor array?"

Carmody

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« Reply #235 on: <08-04-13/1610:26> »
First Aid: why is the fact that a character wears a full-body armor handled by dividing by 2 the net effect of first aid?
Quote from: SR5 p. 205/206
divide the net effect in half (rounded up) if the victim being treated is wearing any kind of full-body armor in order to represent the difficulty of treating the patient through armor
Why such an exception to the usual rules? it would have been simpler to add 1 row to the Healing modifiers table with a dice pool penalty rather than a very specific and unusual rule.
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KarmaInferno

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« Reply #236 on: <08-04-13/1839:47> »
Does firing a SA grenade launcher in Semi Auto Burst mode impose only the standard SAB -2 defense penalty, or does the Multiple Simultaneous Blasts explosives rule also apply, which would add half the DV of each subsequent grenade to the first?



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SoulGambit

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« Reply #237 on: <08-04-13/2203:11> »
How does a Technomancer grabbing Resonance [Virtual Machine] via Submersion work, if at all? Can they suddenly buy and load programs into those slots? Do they spontaneously grow programs to fill the slots, like they do for other purchases of Resonance [Program]?

How does a Technomancer grabbing Resonance [Configurator] via Submersion work, if at all? Would this allow a Technomancer the limited ability to reconfigure their living persona like a deck?
« Last Edit: <08-04-13/2216:08> by SoulGambit »

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #238 on: <08-05-13/0323:04> »
I got a question that requires some introductionary talk first, to make absolutely clear where this is coming from.

There's a significant difference between Compiling/Registering Sprites and Summoning/Binding Spirits. The rules on Sprites make clear you can only have one compiled, when registering the sprite no longer counts for your limit of 1 compiled at a time and it will stay with you until it's out of tasks, though you can make it go standby for a task. In other words, you can be accompanied at any time by (likely limited as written in chargen) registered Sprites and 1 unregistered Sprite.

On the other hand, there's Spirits. You can only have 1 spirit summoned at a time, a summoned unbound spirit will disappear on dusk, dawn or when you run out of services. With Binding, you compel it to long-term services. This states you can have up to Charisma spirits, and you can call/dismiss them with a Simple Action. However, nowhere does it state you can have more than 1 spirit, bound or unbound, active at the same time. In fact, the way things are phrased with things such as the Spirit-Summoner Link and Spirit Range, they do not acknowledge in any way having more than one active at a time.

Q: Can you have only 1 spirit, no matter whether bound or unbound, active at any time?

In all fairness, this seems rather balanced, especially since you can switch spirit in 2 Simple Actions and they're rather powerful. And the significant phrasing differences between Registering Sprites and Binding Spirits appears to heavily imply this conclusion.
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Xenon

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« Reply #239 on: <08-05-13/0358:37> »
Crack File Complex Action

p.238 state that this is a Hacking + Logic [Attack] v. Protection Rating x 2
Table on  p.244 state that this can be both an Attack Action and a Sleaze Action.


Q: Can you do a Crack File action using a Sleaze Action instead of an Attack Action



If so, comparing Brute Force and Hacking on the Fly indicate that a Sleaze version of the Crack File action should be a Hacking + Logic [Sleaze] v. Protection Rating x 2




Since a successful [Attack] will always alert the owner that the file is under attack I personally feel there should also be a way to Sleaze your way through the protection as well... Ghost in the machine and all that ;)

Also, BK example on p.224 seem to indicate that he first failed a Sleaze Action when trying to crack the file protection (something went wrong and the host automatically got a Mark on his Persona, p.231 and p.236). On p.225 he again tries to break the protection but this time it seem as if he is using an Attack Action (that fails and he is hit by Matrix Damage - just like you would when failing an attack action, p.231). The third attempt seems to be another attack action; This time he is successful - but successful attack actions always make the target aware (p.236) and the host start searching for him again.
« Last Edit: <08-05-13/1847:28> by Xenon »