Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => The Secret History => Topic started by: Cranstonvm on <06-13-11/1551:51>
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I was reading one of the books dealing with dragons (one of the source books) they said in a comment that dragons are not able to go into Egypt. Why is this? Or did I misread something?
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Deals with a VERY old magickal 'agreement' from back in the 'EarthDawn' Era. the essence being that the local passions didn't like the dragons overly much and puta curse to strike down a dragon if they set claw on Egypt. Apparently the dragons take it seriously enough not to mess with it
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Which tells you just how much of a heavyweight these things are!
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Wait a minute let me get this straight,
(Disclaimer: I have never actually read earthdawn, and have no real plans to)
Wouldn't that imply that these Passion things are still around in the Sixth World? I mean, what's keeping the Greats to that agreement? The Passions would still need to be around in order to enforce this thing.
Also, I have no idea what a Passion is.
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Just because Shadowrunners don't know about it, doesn't mean they aren't around.
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Passions are a Earthdawn way of Saying 'Gods', but they are more archetypes than anything else. The two major pantheons I was aware of Were the Barsivian Passions and the ones of What was Egypt's Precusor. In fact the Egyptian ones names were slightly changed versions some of the elder form egyptian translations of the Gods Names. To wit, The Egyptian Passions are still around. And they are VERY powerful
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Or, to put another way:
Bill Robinson: "Jesus is coming and he is pissed!" - Maximum Overdrive
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Ugh. As much as I hate ED connections, this is making the hamster in my brain spin his wheel like someone gave him crank.
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Ugh. As much as I hate ED connections, this is making the hamster in my brain spin his wheel like someone gave him crank.
As if my Coked Out Cow wasn't bad enough...
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food for thought, neh?
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Ozul shares his skies with NO ONE.
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maybe Egypt is/was the territory of the once-referenced 'You-Know-Who' . . .
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Actually....that would be Aztlan and the Big 'V' (we do not speak the name) that hunts dragons
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Ah, the Great Hunter.
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The Passions are still around, but without avid followers they are pretty weak. It's kind of a symbiotic relationship with Passions: Passions spring forth from a set of metahuman emotions/impulses, metahumans emulate Passions to gain power, Passions gain power from emulation/worship, metahumans emulating Passions gain greater power...and so on. Without active emulation/worship, the Passions weaken and wither away.
However, there is evidence that some are still around in some form or another (take a look through Harlequin's Back for an example in the fluff). Given how cautious dragons can be, it is unsurprising that they don't set foot in Egypt.
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Actually....that would be Aztlan and the Big 'V' (we do not speak the name) that hunts dragons
Unclear, since the 'You-Know-Who' reference was connected to Booryazmei, the dragon (adult, as far as is known) in Russia - known to the dragon/IE community as Wild Child. See Shadows of Asia, pg 144.
I also have to wonder if the Big 'V' was connected to that whackjob bunch of dragon hunters, and if they were in turn being hunted by Sirrurg. Which would put a different spin on his pre-war atrocities.
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The Passions are still around, but without avid followers they are pretty weak. It's kind of a symbiotic relationship with Passions: Passions spring forth from a set of metahuman emotions/impulses, metahumans emulate Passions to gain power, Passions gain power from emulation/worship, metahumans emulating Passions gain greater power...and so on. Without active emulation/worship, the Passions weaken and wither away.
That good, ol' time religion is coming back, however!
One of my characters in my fanfic is an Ásatrú.
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Actually....that would be Aztlan and the Big 'V' (we do not speak the name) that hunts dragons
Unclear, since the 'You-Know-Who' reference was connected to Booryazmei, the dragon (adult, as far as is known) in Russia - known to the dragon/IE community as Wild Child. See Shadows of Asia, pg 144.
I also have to wonder if the Big 'V' was connected to that whackjob bunch of dragon hunters, and if they were in turn being hunted by Sirrurg. Which would put a different spin on his pre-war atrocities.
hadn't considered that possability, but considering it's pretty much implied he's running Azltan....
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Actually....that would be Aztlan and the Big 'V' (we do not speak the name) that hunts dragons
Unclear, since the 'You-Know-Who' reference was connected to Booryazmei, the dragon (adult, as far as is known) in Russia - known to the dragon/IE community as Wild Child. See Shadows of Asia, pg 144.
I also have to wonder if the Big 'V' was connected to that whackjob bunch of dragon hunters, and if they were in turn being hunted by Sirrurg. Which would put a different spin on his pre-war atrocities.
hadn't considered that possability, but considering it's pretty much implied he's running Azltan....
HE can't be because the mana level isn't high enough yet - but yeah, there are apparently disciples or some such involved with Azzie. I was curious and confused by the reference to Oscuro (of Harlequin's Back) being regarded as short-sighted.
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The Passions are still around, but without avid followers they are pretty weak. It's kind of a symbiotic relationship with Passions: Passions spring forth from a set of metahuman emotions/impulses, metahumans emulate Passions to gain power, Passions gain power from emulation/worship, metahumans emulating Passions gain greater power...and so on. Without active emulation/worship, the Passions weaken and wither away.
That good, ol' time religion is coming back, however!
One of my characters in my fanfic is an Ásatrú.
Must be getting a whole lot of flack thanks to Winternight.
Btw, are there not a set of mentor spirits (heh, called them totems at first. Old habits die hard) that could look like low grade passions?
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Actually I'm thinking the network of Tocalli (sp?) while not allowing him to be awake, let's him send emminations to his minions (The Smoking Mirror). He might actually be awake but unable to crossover, or awaken but too weak to move. well, Much anyway.
Considering how hard it is to get information out of Aztlan, things could be considerably worse than even the Big D thought.
And for those with a nasty disposition, ask if there are photos of homeless in Aztlan that pop-up often. Or think of an ulterior reason why Aztechnology might be offering help to homeless shelters and free transport for those needing job training...
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One of my characters in my fanfic is an Ásatrú.
Must be getting a whole lot of flack thanks to Winternight.
He takes it about as well as a good Christian might take being compared to the Westboro Baptist Church.
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Ouch. I hope he stays cool.
although Asatru was practised outside of Winternight for years before Winternight came out swinging (no, I don't mean like that - get your minds out of the gutter) . . . I would hope that most people don't think that following one means following the other.
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Ouch. I hope he stays cool.
He's a little touched in the head since his newly pregnant wife's skull was shattered in front of him, and the splinters went into his eyes.
Then the building fell on him.
He used to be "Ice Cold", now is "Black Trenchcoat". Mostly calm and professional until "The Coats Come Off", then he's a damned fury of rage and carnage incarnate. He's a few blows to the head away from wearing a wolf pelt and carrying a spear, I sometimes think. :P
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Ouch. I hope he stays cool.
although Asatru was practised outside of Winternight for years before Winternight came out swinging (no, I don't mean like that - get your minds out of the gutter) . . . I would hope that most people don't think that following one means following the other.
Oh, no ... No one would overreact in SR. It's not like this is a game where because a handful of terrorists almost started World War 3 that the U.S. put a million Indians in camps.
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Oh, no ... No one would overreact in SR. It's not like this is a game where because a handful of terrorists almost started World War 3 that the U.S. put a million Indians in camps.
Humanis Policlub and Sons of Sauron?
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Ouch. I hope he stays cool.
He's a little touched in the head since his newly pregnant wife's skull was shattered in front of him, and the splinters went into his eyes.
Yeesh . . . my character's other half and our kids had a mondo major fire elemental sicced on her, in a 'safe house' . . . my character was just about to enter at the time.
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Oh, no ... No one would overreact in SR. It's not like this is a game where because a handful of terrorists almost started World War 3 that the U.S. put a million Indians in camps.
Humanis Policlub and Sons of Sauron?
Eh?
No, the Indian ones with the Lone Eagle Incident o.O
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Put in camps by the U.S. gov.
It's not like they haven't done that before.
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Speaking of, it appears some of the IEs & GDs were quite put out by the Great Ghost Dance. At least one of them wanted to find out how Howling Coyote learnt the ritual. Plus the whole Spike Point business, apparently a classic Unintended Consequence. At least Harlequin sorted that out.
Come to that, is Howling Coyote confirmed as deceased? And what's happened with the search for the site of the Great Ghost Dance, that some very powerful people didn't want to succeed?
Also, Man-of-Many-Names once made a comment that a lot of old Dancers choose to go out a particular way. Can't place the reference.
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Come to that, is Howling Coyote confirmed as deceased? And what's happened with the search for the site of the Great Ghost Dance, that some very powerful people didn't want to succeed?
Well, there's dead, and then there's dead.
Dying being a part of being a Shaman, it's not necessarily a thing that keeps you down and out...
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Anyone claiming to be an "old" Dancer is suspect of having been one at all.
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Also, Man-of-Many-Names once made a comment that a lot of old Dancers choose to go out a particular way. Can't place the reference.
You do know that the Dance was a Blood Magic Ritual of never before and after seen potence?
Who/What do you think actually fueled the Dance? Correct, the Dancers. Most of them, anyway . . Not all, mind you . .
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"Death is light as a feather, duty is heavier than mountains."
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Also, Man-of-Many-Names once made a comment that a lot of old Dancers choose to go out a particular way. Can't place the reference.
You do know that the Dance was a Blood Magic Ritual of never before and after seen potence?
Who/What do you think actually fueled the Dance? Correct, the Dancers. Most of them, anyway . . Not all, mind you . .
I remember a bit of contention between posters about the GGD versus Azzie blood magic - someone was saying they were the same thing, and others majorly objecting to equating them. As far as I know, popular opinion in the NAN - sort of national mythologies, like - holds that the Dancers were volunteers, and thus free of any blood magic stigma.
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I imagine popular opinion in Aztlan is pretty similar: Noble sacrifices or sacrifices of the damned, so fuck 'em anyway.
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I remember a bit of contention between posters about the GGD versus Azzie blood magic - someone was saying they were the same thing, and others majorly objecting to equating them. As far as I know, popular opinion in the NAN - sort of national mythologies, like - holds that the Dancers were volunteers, and thus free of any blood magic stigma.
Regarding blood magic, in my opinion, the entire history of the American continent in Shadowrun has to be viewed through the prism of Earthdawn sourcebook Dragons: the Great Ghost Dance, but also Moutainshadow/Dunkelzahn move from Barsaive to Denver area, the sacrificial traditions in Northwest tribes (the Potlach) and Mesoamerican civilizations and their links to Tamanous and the Smoking Mirror faction within Aztechnology, the establishment of the Amazonian nation, the war between Amazonia and Aztlan. It's even possible some of the Blood Wood elves chose to establish their new nation around Crater Lake because they expected the site to be aspected toward Blood Magic.Dragons, page 44
Feathered dragons are most often found quite far from Barsaive, in the warm, tropical lands across the great ocean, near Araucania, where they are called Quetzal by the native Name-givers. [...]
Feather dragons are the only dragons to make any significant use of blood magic, specifically the more powerful and dangerous forms of blood magic that you know as death magic. They understand the fire that flows in the veins of dragonkind and, to a lesser degree, within all creatures. In their own lands, feathered dragons have used blood magic to heal the damage done to the land by the Scourge, repairing scars and making the jungles fertile once again.. The elves of the Blood Wood could take some lessons from the feathered dragons in using blood magic to enhance growth without twisting the land and its creatures beyond recognition.
There is a definite split among the feathered dragons concerning the different uses of blood magic. Some feathered dragons are strongly opposed to death magic: that is, blood magic used solely for power. These dragons consider death magic inherently wrong, and suggest that is partakes the power of the Horrors, and can only prolong the presence of those Horrors remaining since the Scourge. While they understand and appreciate the value of life magic, used to aid and restore life, these dragons see the two forms of blood magic as inextricably linked, and fear that use of one ype leads to use of the other. The second group of feathered dragons believe all forms of blood magic, whether life magic or death magic, are, like all magic, merely power: tool beyond good and evil, to be used for whatever ends they see fit. It saddens me that there are some among my kind who have failed to learn the lessons of the past. Perhaps most frightening about the feathered dragons' use of blood magic is their propagation of its use to other Name-givers. There are some feathered dragons who teach and encourage the use of blood magic, specifically death magic, among the Young Races that live near them. I do not understand the purpose of this practice, and I fear its ultimate consequences. Fortunately, this practice is not widespread, and most feathered dragons oppose passing such potentially dangerous knowledge on to others.
What began as a philosophical argument has grown over the years to become a a serious rift among feathered dragons (good enough reason to leave blood magic alone, in my view). I have heard tales from the hot lands of the south of feathered dragons fighting and even killing each other over the matter of blood magic. Some suggest there may be a Horror at work, corrupting some feathered dragons through the use of death magic. I cannot say, but I hope that reason prevails and the feathered dragons are able to settle their differences according to our tradition rather than repeating the mistakes of the past.
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I remember a bit of contention between posters about the GGD versus Azzie blood magic - someone was saying they were the same thing, and others majorly objecting to equating them. As far as I know, popular opinion in the NAN - sort of national mythologies, like - holds that the Dancers were volunteers, and thus free of any blood magic stigma.
Regarding blood magic, in my opinion, the entire history of the American continent in Shadowrun has to be viewed through the prism of Earthdawn sourcebook Dragons: the Great Ghost Dance, but also Moutainshadow/Dunkelzahn move from Barsaive to Denver area, the sacrificial traditions in Northwest tribes (the Potlach) and Mesoamerican civilizations and their links to Tamanous and the Smoking Mirror faction within Aztechnology, the establishment of the Amazonian nation, the war between Amazonia and Aztlan. It's even possible some of the Blood Wood elves chose to establish their new nation around Crater Lake because they expected the site to be aspected toward Blood Magic.Dragons, page 44
Feathered dragons are most often found quite far from Barsaive, in the warm, tropical lands across the great ocean, near Araucania, where they are called Quetzal by the native Name-givers. [...]
Feather dragons are the only dragons to make any significant use of blood magic, specifically the more powerful and dangerous forms of blood magic that you know as death magic. They understand the fire that flows in the veins of dragonkind and, to a lesser degree, within all creatures. In their own lands, feathered dragons have used blood magic to heal the damage done to the land by the Scourge, repairing scars and making the jungles fertile once again.. The elves of the Blood Wood could take some lessons from the feathered dragons in using blood magic to enhance growth without twisting the land and its creatures beyond recognition.
There is a definite split among the feathered dragons concerning the different uses of blood magic. Some feathered dragons are strongly opposed to death magic: that is, blood magic used solely for power. These dragons consider death magic inherently wrong, and suggest that is partakes the power of the Horrors, and can only prolong the presence of those Horrors remaining since the Scourge. While they understand and appreciate the value of life magic, used to aid and restore life, these dragons see the two forms of blood magic as inextricably linked, and fear that use of one ype leads to use of the other. The second group of feathered dragons believe all forms of blood magic, whether life magic or death magic, are, like all magic, merely power: tool beyond good and evil, to be used for whatever ends they see fit. It saddens me that there are some among my kind who have failed to learn the lessons of the past. Perhaps most frightening about the feathered dragons' use of blood magic is their propagation of its use to other Name-givers. There are some feathered dragons who teach and encourage the use of blood magic, specifically death magic, among the Young Races that live near them. I do not understand the purpose of this practice, and I fear its ultimate consequences. Fortunately, this practice is not widespread, and most feathered dragons oppose passing such potentially dangerous knowledge on to others.
What began as a philosophical argument has grown over the years to become a a serious rift among feathered dragons (good enough reason to leave blood magic alone, in my view). I have heard tales from the hot lands of the south of feathered dragons fighting and even killing each other over the matter of blood magic. Some suggest there may be a Horror at work, corrupting some feathered dragons through the use of death magic. I cannot say, but I hope that reason prevails and the feathered dragons are able to settle their differences according to our tradition rather than repeating the mistakes of the past.
I don't know - given the translation of the Sperethiel name for Crater Lake ('skull of the dragon') blood magic aspecting at that site seems unlikely. I'm not saying you're wrong, Nath - probably there's a general lack of information.
It does seem a bit odd to me that, as far as is known, no elves went for re-establishing themselves where Wyrm/Blood Wood was, roughly in the northern Ukraine. I might have to look up the explanation of the Path of the Wheel in Earthdawn.
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It does seem a bit odd to me that, as far as is known, no elves went for re-establishing themselves where Wyrm/Blood Wood was, roughly in the northern Ukraine.
Interestingly enough, "wormwood" is another name of Artemisia vulgaris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artemisia_vulgaris). Artemisia vulgaris is also called Чорнобиль (http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BD_%D0%B7%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B9) in Ukrainian ("black grass" IIRC). And Чорнобиль (http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A7%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%B8%D0%BB%D1%8C) is also the name of a city in Northern Ukraine. Standard English spelling for that place's name is Chernobyl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_%28city%29).
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Well, that, at least, explains why nobody bothered with trying to re-establish that . .
Now for the blood wood?
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Well, that, at least, explains why nobody bothered with trying to re-establish that . .
It get worse than that, Stahl. Read up on your Book of Revelation. Yeah, lots of connections have been made since day one of the meltdown.
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Damn, I forgot about Chernobyl. Grade-A reason for not setting up shop in the area. That must have pissed off Alachia no end.
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Slightly miffed is likely all it got out of her. Her #1 love is and always has been herself and then power. If it gets her more power, she's all for it.
Frighteningly enough, she's a high Circle Troubadour (charismatic entertainer-loremaster-diplomancer). On the ED powerscale she's likely 15th Circle, which is as high as you can get. At that level, she can talk a few dragons out of their hoard. She can even talk Horrors into going home without a fight ("No, really, your home is much nicer than here." "Ok, sounds good!").
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She was queen of England and Eva Braun i think . .
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As far as is known - entirely OOC - Alachia is currently going by Sósan Naerain (formerly of Tir Tairngire) and Sheila Blatavaska (currently in charge of the Atlantean Foundation).
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She was queen of England and Eva Braun i think . .
Hedy Lamarr?
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She was queen of England and Eva Braun i think . .
Hedy Lamarr?
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Damn kids and their music.
She wasn't, AFAIK, Eva Braun. Nor do I believe, and won't ever unless told differently, that she's Sheila Blatavska.
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She was queen of England and Eva Braun i think . .
Hedy Lamarr?
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Hedwig Eva Maria Kiesler, beautiful actress of Hollywood's "Golden Age" and inventor or a frequency hopping system for radio that's still in use today.
Also a de-beaked Headcrab who ate watermelons that causes lots of carnage and destruction in Half-Life 2. :P
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Damn kids and their music.
She wasn't, AFAIK, Eva Braun. Nor do I believe, and won't ever unless told differently, that she's Sheila Blatavska.
Well, the german shadowrun wiki brings Sheila Blatavska into connection with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helena_Blavatsky at least . .
She was queen of England and Eva Braun i think . .
Hedy Lamarr?
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Hedwig Eva Maria Kiesler, beautiful actress of Hollywood's "Golden Age" and inventor or a frequency hopping system for radio that's still in use today.
Also a de-beaked Headcrab who ate watermelons that causes lots of carnage and destruction in Half-Life 2. :P
*nods*
no comprende senhor . .
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Hedy Lamarr played Delilah in the classic film 'Samson and Delilah' - a role and performance which, for me, has always defined her.
Admittedly the equating of Alachia with Sheila Blatavska is far less definite (definitive?) than Sosan Naerain. There are a couple of indicators though.
Not surprised about connection with Helena Blavatsky - I'd bet that the 19th century Theosophical Society was an influence on creating the Atlantean Foundation. It certainly puts a different spin on the AF.
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Well, what gets me about her is that in the immortals' chats Hecate (Blavatska, AFAIK) asks about things Alachia would or does know about.
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Well, what gets me about her is that in the immortals' chats Hecate (Blavatska, AFAIK) asks about things Alachia would or does know about.
For clarification, did you intend a 'not' in there?
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I don't know - given the translation of the Sperethiel name for Crater Lake ('skull of the dragon') blood magic aspecting at that site seems unlikely. I'm not saying you're wrong, Nath - probably there's a general lack of information.
Remember the excerpt I quoted. The most common dragons in Americas are feathered serpents, and feathered serpents practiced blood magic in the past.
There is another theory regarding that name (http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=3236.msg46074#msg46074) I also considered, however.
Well, what gets me about her is that in the immortals' chats Hecate (Blavatska, AFAIK) asks about things Alachia would or does know about.
Aztlan suggests "Hecate" knows an ancient language, may be involved a down-cycle hunting of dragons, knows about "Wordsmyth" and "The Laughing Man" personal feud, is older than "Lady of the Court" and old enough to have "experienced personally" Corruption (with one big C), was around at the time of the Great Ghost Dance, has an history of "consorting with the abhorrent" as The Laughing Man put (context suggests blood magic) and finally knows about the original intent behind the creation of Locus.
There is also seem to be some sort of connection with "watchers" whatever they are. When the conversation starts, page 11, Wordsmyth asks "Is the Watcher attending to this?" to which Umsondo replies "I am here." The singular suggests there ought to be only one around (wile Hecate is already online). But later, when discussing the possibility that Domingo Ramos could be "Gifted", The Laughing Man comments "His behavior says he ought to be. Another Watcher?" Umsondo replies "No." and then Hecate continues "Laughing Man insults us!"
Us ?
Loose Alliances, page 79, strongly implies Hecate is Sheila Blatavska.
Dawn of the Artifacts: Midnight, page 8, states Sheila Blatavska gave their Codex to the founders of the Mystic Crusaders. It suggests she is Samriel's boss in the ending short stories, page 56. That woman knows about the artifacts, calls Jane Foster a "child" and considers telling the "Caynreth’im" of blood mages activity to "keep them occupied" (In Earthdawn, Caynreth was the first Great Elve created by the Great Dragon Alamais).
If Samriel's boos is going to play a significant role in Dawn of the Artifacts fourth chapter or Artifacts Unbound, I would hope the Hecate/Blatavska/Alachia thing has been decided for good.
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I know that it's been well understood among the fan community since the day Aztlan came out that Hecate is supposed to be Alachia. I know that when Mike M wrote the IE chapter of Threats that was the closest FASA was going to acknowledge the rampant speculation that came with those comments. The IE speculation threads on AOL and elsewhere (usenet, ShadowRN) never ended in spite of, or because of, that.
However, I have my doubts. Some of them are from Worlds Without End. Some are borne from my limited knowledge of ED. Mostly it's just a combination of hearty skepticism and a deep, deep disdain for revealing a mystery that doesn't need to be answered. The fact that she is out there somewhere is interesting enough. I don't feel the need to make her quite as impetuous as some other who need not be named.
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Bah, kids today, have to have everything handed to them, can't do any problem solving or puzzling out of their own. Can't have any mysteries or anything. Everything has to be predigested pap.
You'd think with Shadowrun it'd be different, considering the source material and where it comes from.
*Continues to rant while waving a cane*
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I've been playing this game (the speculation one) online for a long, long time. I cannot think of satisfying reveal in all of that time. Not that there are two dozen or less immortals elves. Not the cause of the Crash. Not anything. I have no interest in that stuff as you will soon see.
What I find fascinating is that Lofwyr's and Aden's interests no doubt encroach into Egypt, and that should have ... consequences.
I forget where Leonardo's base is in Black Madonna.
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I've been playing this game (the speculation one) online for a long, long time. I cannot think of satisfying reveal in all of that time. Not that there are two dozen or less immortals elves. Not the cause of the Crash. Not anything. I have no interest in that stuff as you will soon see.
What I find fascinating is that Lofwyr's and Aden's interests no doubt encroach into Egypt, and that should have ... consequences.
I forget where Leonardo's base is in Black Madonna.
Funny, it was that ancient connection which really got me into SR. To each their own . . .
Not to mention Masaru and Schwatzkopf having interest in Egypt as well.
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I came to SR pre-ED.
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I usually keep the IE's and GD's in the background and have them be the plot for making runs, but rearely do the players see them.....unless it's something which is vital to the Dragon's or IE's interest.
Though I had Excalibur stolen from Harl as part of an early adventure and it turned into a screwball run all over Western Europe as forces from Both the Tir's, Celedyr and a Aruthurian Cult took immense interest in the Sword. Which I actually used as a 5th Artifact for the Dawn Series too keep things interesting
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Bah, kids today, have to have everything handed to them, can't do any problem solving or puzzling out of their own. Can't have any mysteries or anything. Everything has to be predigested pap.
You'd think with Shadowrun it'd be different, considering the source material and where it comes from.
*Continues to rant while waving a cane*
Hey, you dang kids get off my conspiracy:-p
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It kinda makes sense if the passions are related or are the Egyptian gods of old and considering what Set (god in the form of a snake or you could also say a Worm(dragon)) did to his brother it is not that surprising that dragons stay the heck away. Hey does anyone know if there are any Dragons in Ireland?
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It kinda makes sense if the passions are related or are the Egyptian gods of old and considering what Set (god in the form of a snake or you could also say a Worm(dragon)) did to his brother it is not that surprising that dragons stay the heck away. Hey does anyone know if there are any Dragons in Ireland?
If there are, my "Irish Republican Army in Exile" (IRAiE) just got a whole lot scarier!
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It kinda makes sense if the passions are related or are the Egyptian gods of old and considering what Set (god in the form of a snake or you could also say a Worm(dragon)) did to his brother it is not that surprising that dragons stay the heck away. Hey does anyone know if there are any Dragons in Ireland?
Yes, we know.
No, there are not.
Bah, kids today, have to have everything handed to them, can't do any problem solving or puzzling out of their own. Can't have any mysteries or anything. Everything has to be predigested pap.
You'd think with Shadowrun it'd be different, considering the source material and where it comes from.
*Continues to rant while waving a cane*
Yeah ... Kind of.
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It kinda makes sense if the passions are related or are the Egyptian gods of old and considering what Set (god in the form of a snake or you could also say a Worm(dragon)) did to his brother it is not that surprising that dragons stay the heck away. Hey does anyone know if there are any Dragons in Ireland?
Yes, we know.
No, there are not.
Bah, kids today, have to have everything handed to them, can't do any problem solving or puzzling out of their own. Can't have any mysteries or anything. Everything has to be predigested pap.
You'd think with Shadowrun it'd be different, considering the source material and where it comes from.
*Continues to rant while waving a cane*
Yeah ... Kind of.
Hmmm? I wonder if the lack of Worms in Ireland are do to St. Patrick or some Celtic passions? Speaking of passions I wonder if those in Egypt are going to get more involved considering that the worship of the old gods is becoming more prevalent in the land of the Pharaohs?
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It's Snakes in Ireland, not Wyrms. And, due to Tir na NoG being created, it's more likely the Immortal Elves (Who were awake) making sure that the Dragons of Ireland never woke up again.
Or never bedded down there to begin with. Wales is so much nicer a place anyhow. :P
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It's Snakes in Ireland, not Wyrms. And, due to Tir na NoG being created, it's more likely the Immortal Elves (Who were awake) making sure that the Dragons of Ireland never woke up again.
Or never bedded down there to begin with. Wales is so much nicer a place anyhow. :P
I like Wales.... but they need a little common sense injection...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6159630.stm
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It's Snakes in Ireland, not Wyrms. And, due to Tir na NoG being created, it's more likely the Immortal Elves (Who were awake) making sure that the Dragons of Ireland never woke up again.
Or never bedded down there to begin with. Wales is so much nicer a place anyhow. :P
I like Wales.... but they need a little common sense injection...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6159630.stm
Maybe they know something we don't, and hope to protect the company when the dragons wake up?
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It's Snakes in Ireland, not Wyrms.
Serpents, actually.
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It's Snakes in Ireland, not Wyrms.
Serpents, actually.
Which in medieval times covered a lot of ground.
Technically, the Lampdon (sp?) Worm was a serpent, but is treated as a dragon in folklore....
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It's Snakes in Ireland, not Wyrms.
Serpents, actually.
Which in medieval times covered a lot of ground.
That is what I was getting at.
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Which in medieval times covered a lot of ground.
That is what I was getting at.
Well :P
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I was using a little bit of literary license. This is all fiction anyway. Chill out and have some fun with it.
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Just reading through Dragons of the Sixth World and it says that Masaru has visited Egypt a few times, though in disguise due to the anti-dragon sentiment of the region.
So the curse at least doesn't strike them dead (though this could be quite out of date).
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Just reading through Dragons of the Sixth World and it says that Masaru has visited Egypt a few times, though in disguise due to the anti-dragon sentiment of the region.
So the curse at least doesn't strike them dead (though this could be quite out of date).
Either that or the passions did not have enough power at that time to detect him or do anything about him running around Egypt.
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It's Snakes in Ireland, not Wyrms. And, due to Tir na NoG being created, it's more likely the Immortal Elves (Who were awake) making sure that the Dragons of Ireland never woke up again.
Or never bedded down there to begin with. Wales is so much nicer a place anyhow. :P
I like Wales.... but they need a little common sense injection...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6159630.stm
They sell DRAGON SAUSAGE? Where can I get so-
*vanishes, never to be seen again*
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Wasn't there mention of the Heka (Old School Egyptian Preists) kinda making a comeback in Egypt as they help fight against Scarab Spirits?
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I know in the 6th World Almanac they made mention in the article on Egypt that there is some major behind the scenes action going on between the Muslim government and the followers of the old Egyptian religion.
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Ah yes, nothing like that old time religion to get things going!
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I know in the 6th World Almanac they made mention in the article on Egypt that there is some major behind the scenes action going on between the Muslim government and the followers of the old Egyptian religion.
a Six of Boc and some Pizza's for front seats on that.
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It would be pretty interesting to see if the followers of the old religion could deep six or derail the 6th world Islamic government. They seem to be taking the long approach slowly infiltrating the government. I wonder if they are also doing Psyops and even some covert action to position themselves for a coup.
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I did wonder about the NIJ presence & actions in Egypt with regard to the resurgence of the old Egyptian cults. However, given the apparent shedim control of the NIJ, it seems that it was less about continued Islamic dominance, and Ibn Eisa-faux was more focussed on Saudi and Israel.
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I did wonder about the NIJ presence & actions in Egypt with regard to the resurgence of the old Egyptian cults. However, given the apparent shedim control of the NIJ, it seems that it was less about continued Islamic dominance, and Ibn Eisa-faux was more focussed on Saudi and Israel.
If I was the NIJ I would be watching Egypt very carefully as historically the country of the Nile has been very hard to control. I am mainly talking about the Ottoman Empire.
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Nah, the NIJ, after 2064-5, was probably scrabbling for survival. It's likely to go the same way as Hamas and Hezbollah.
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Can anyone quickly quickly quickly give me a page reference on where exactly it says dragons can't enter egypt? My copy of Dragons of the Sixth World, which I suspect it's in, is sadly not a searchable PDF but an actual dead tree copy.
I'd really appreciate a page reference, but it's gotta be fast.
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Dragons of the Sixth World, page 131
The New Library of Alexandria
Egypt lies outside Masaru's usual realm, but he visits now and again, particularly to look in on the progress of the new Alexandrian Library. His visit are brief, sporadic and in heavy disguise to avoid arousing anti-dragon sentiments (Masaru keeps an acceptable representative in the country to keep abreast of development). Like others participating in and funding the library project, Masaru wants to see this once-legendary institution reborn in the modern world. [...]
> [...] Lofwyr and Saeder-Krupp are supposedly also funneling money into the Library, but if so, the big wyrm has been very quiet about it.
> Black Knight
> "Quiet" meaning "not happening." Or were you not paying attention when the muftis said no dragons? On the other hand, Masaru's ability to visit now and then, even in disguise, speaks of inside help. The going theory says Aden is involved.
> Kephalos
Sixth World Almanac, page 107
> What about the rumor that dragons can’t—or won’t—travel to Egypt? True, False, or Urban Legend?
> Snopes
> Urban legend. Masaru has his Great Library project in Alexandria, after all.
> Winterhawk
> Note that it’s offshore, though, on a “reconstructed” island connected to the mainland by a bridge. Technically speaking, Masaru hasn’t stepped foot (claw) onto Egypt itself...
> Frosty
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Thanks, chummer.
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Come to that, is Howling Coyote confirmed as deceased? And what's happened with the search for the site of the Great Ghost Dance, that some very powerful people didn't want to succeed?
I'm going to take these in reverse order.
First, the actual physical site of the Great Ghost Dance is, I suspect, immaterial to the magic; the particular valley may help, but it's probably not necessary, nor is it technically 'unfound'; see response to second question. However, politically, finding it would no doubt be a boon; James can lecture on that one.
Howling Coyote bit the big one in a self-sacrifice during the third book of the Secrets of Power -- foolishly, IMO, but there you go. Remember, if you die in astral combat, you die in the Real; your mind makes it so ... ;)
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Come to that, is Howling Coyote confirmed as deceased? And what's happened with the search for the site of the Great Ghost Dance, that some very powerful people didn't want to succeed?
I'm going to take these in reverse order.
First, the actual physical site of the Great Ghost Dance is, I suspect, immaterial to the magic; the particular valley may help, but it's probably not necessary, nor is it technically 'unfound'; see response to second question. However, politically, finding it would no doubt be a boon; James can lecture on that one.
Howling Coyote bit the big one in a self-sacrifice during the third book of the Secrets of Power -- foolishly, IMO, but there you go. Remember, if you die in astral combat, you die in the Real; your mind makes it so ... ;)
Self-sacrifice to what intended end? And what actual end?
By implication, most GDs, IEs and great spirits do not want the GGD site found - I don't know who else.
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He died during a second ghost dance to remove the 'curse' of being a wendigo from Sam Warner (Twist)'s sister. Another example of taking novels as canon being a nebulous idea at best. Granted they were written before some rules existed, but there you go.
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He died during a second ghost dance to remove the 'curse' of being a wendigo from Sam Warner (Twist)'s sister. Another example of taking novels as canon being a nebulous idea at best. Granted they were written before some rules existed, but there you go.
...
... did you read Find Your Own Truth??
Longshot, Howling Coyote died during combat (astral, possibly metaplanar) with a major spirit -- Spider, though it's a little vague whether it was the totem (who is, after all, a totem) or a powerful spirit that had taken on lots of aspects of it. He and Verner (Coyote and Dog shamans, respectively) are engaged in close combat in the forms of their totems; Howling Coyote makes a daring but futile attack on the spirit, is mortally wounded, and says something that makes Twist realize that he's more than 'just a dog'. As Verner is the focus of the Ghost Dance, he has immediate access to massive power, if he decides to use it; he decides to do so, changing from a dog to a doglike human, i.e. a shaman with access to the power being channeled through him.
Using it, he smites Spider, and Spider falls. Using it, the Ghost Dance requires from him the sacrifice of his own power, which suggests to me that Howling Coyote never actually acted as the center of a Dance...
So to correct and clarify, Howling Coyote dies in combat, not due to blood magic/sacrifice metamagic.
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That's if he really died.
Dying is easy. Living, that's hard.
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And he's "Howling Coyote." Trickster totems are awfully hard to pin down.
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"Are you really dead? Are you really alive? Are you just stoned out of your head over what that red pill the scary black guy in the leather duster gave you and you knocked back like an idiot?"
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He died during a second ghost dance to remove the 'curse' of being a wendigo from Sam Warner (Twist)'s sister. Another example of taking novels as canon being a nebulous idea at best. Granted they were written before some rules existed, but there you go.
...
... did you read Find Your Own Truth??
Longshot, Howling Coyote died during combat (astral, possibly metaplanar) with a major spirit -- Spider, though it's a little vague whether it was the totem (who is, after all, a totem) or a powerful spirit that had taken on lots of aspects of it. He and Verner (Coyote and Dog shamans, respectively) are engaged in close combat in the forms of their totems; Howling Coyote makes a daring but futile attack on the spirit, is mortally wounded, and says something that makes Twist realize that he's more than 'just a dog'. As Verner is the focus of the Ghost Dance, he has immediate access to massive power, if he decides to use it; he decides to do so, changing from a dog to a doglike human, i.e. a shaman with access to the power being channeled through him.
Using it, he smites Spider, and Spider falls. Using it, the Ghost Dance requires from him the sacrifice of his own power, which suggests to me that Howling Coyote never actually acted as the center of a Dance...
So to correct and clarify, Howling Coyote dies in combat, not due to blood magic/sacrifice metamagic.
So..you are confirming what I said with lots more details.
And spider is a regular ole totem now anyway, so I guess all the above was moot in any case. And Spider was an 'outside' totem in a published adventure as well.
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Howling Coyote's death had nothing to do with Twist's wendigo sister. That may be the direction Sam was leaning at the time, that may have been something he wanted to do with a fragment of the Ghost Dance power, but the main target of the Ghost Dance was the spirit that Twist had released in the Outback.
Saying Howling Coyote died to save Sam's sister is like saying World War Two was fought in order to get a couple of people out of Holland. It may have happened, the Allies might have done it, but it was by no means the reason.
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Again, show me his body. Howling Coyote died once already... And got better.
Tricky bugger. Learned a bit from the White Man, and a hell of a lot more from Coyote, I bet.
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Seeing how spider became a regular totem, it hard to argue that the 'main' goal of the dance succeeded. So, he died to save a sister from a curse that was really a virus.
The point is of course, almost everything in the novels is bunk, as far as the game canon goes. Works for game related fiction, but little else. This applies to some novels a lot more than others.
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Who is to say they're the same Spider?
Or that Spider is now a regular totem because she's got more important things to do than mess with Metahumans? (So many tasty Insect Spirits to eat! Om Nom Nom!).
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Sure, possible. But not supported by the "canon" novel.
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Sure, possible. But not supported by the "canon" novel.
Unreliable Narrators. That's the thing I take into consideration.
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Well, we've got writers on this very board that say that it's not possible to rule novel canon out. Which is a silly statement, and causes lots of little things like this.
Unless we also apply the unreliable aspect to the novels as well.
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Again, show me his body. Howling Coyote died once already... And got better.
Sorry? Daniel Coleman Howling Coyote disappeared, left the NAN high council in disgust at the infighting and vanished. Nobody knew what happened to him; he didn't die.
This is, of course, according to my memory -- which can be occasionally spotty. Do you have textev for his death?
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Find Your Own Truth by Robert N. Charrette
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I think he's asking what the first 'death' and came back was. After he left the STC, I don't think he was considered dead was he? Just..gone.
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as a nasty thought, with the release of Artifacts Unbound and the theoretical mana upgrade from it....I wonder what kinda mojo the Heka in Egypt will be able to sling now..
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as a nasty thought, with the release of Artifacts Unbound and the theoretical mana upgrade from it....I wonder what kinda mojo the Heka in Egypt will be able to sling now..
I don't know, but you can bet that my Arcane Treasure Hunter character is going to find out. :)
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as a nasty thought, with the release of Artifacts Unbound and the theoretical mana upgrade from it....I wonder what kinda mojo the Heka in Egypt will be able to sling now..
I don't know, but you can bet that my Arcane Treasure Hunter character is going to find out. :)
Nice sounding concept!
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as a nasty thought, with the release of Artifacts Unbound and the theoretical mana upgrade from it....I wonder what kinda mojo the Heka in Egypt will be able to sling now..
I don't know, but you can bet that my Arcane Treasure Hunter character is going to find out. :)
I'm picturing Lara Croft as a gun adept...
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as a nasty thought, with the release of Artifacts Unbound and the theoretical mana upgrade from it....I wonder what kinda mojo the Heka in Egypt will be able to sling now..
I don't know, but you can bet that my Arcane Treasure Hunter character is going to find out. :)
I'm picturing Lara Croft as a gun adept...
Movie or Game? ;)
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The Mummy Returns becomes a much more worrying subject film in SR...
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as a nasty thought, with the release of Artifacts Unbound and the theoretical mana upgrade from it....I wonder what kinda mojo the Heka in Egypt will be able to sling now..
I don't know, but you can bet that my Arcane Treasure Hunter character is going to find out. :)
I'm picturing Lara Croft as a gun adept...
Movie or Game? ;)
Yes.
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The Mummy Returns becomes a much more worrying subject film in SR...
Sounds like a master shedim to me...
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Nice sounding concept!
Thanks! It's been my favorite character I've played, and I've played a lot of them. His name is Grail and I started him in SR3. Made the switch to SR4 for character conversion and it's been tons of fun. Needless to say, the artifacts storylines have been right up Grail's alley. :)
I'm picturing Lara Croft as a gun adept...
You're on the right track. He's a Mystic Adept with a focus on detection spells, puzzle solving, pistols and some good old fashioned tomb raiding. Try to picture a combo of Indiana Jones and Lara Croft with a splash of magic and you have Grail.
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The Mummy Returns becomes a much more worrying subject film in SR...
Sounds like a master shedim to me...
yeah...pure nigthmare fuel is it has magical skills
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As an interesting side note, the SPhrinx and the Great Pyramids are closed today. The Egyptians had one too many groups that wanted to perform 'mystical ceremonies' due to the mathematical importance of 11/11/11 and just shut everything down to keep 'em away.
Free 'historical plot thread' for somebody to pick up and run with for Shadowrun. (Yeah, sixty years ago, right before magic came back, these guys did this thing at the Pyramid. But I have new data... let me show you...)
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conisdering the Sphynix was also magically active back in the 4th world....hmmm
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As an interesting side note, the SPhrinx and the Great Pyramids are closed today. The Egyptians had one too many groups that wanted to perform 'mystical ceremonies' due to the mathematical importance of 11/11/11 and just shut everything down to keep 'em away.
Free 'historical plot thread' for somebody to pick up and run with for Shadowrun. (Yeah, sixty years ago, right before magic came back, these guys did this thing at the Pyramid. But I have new data... let me show you...)
Interesting, I'll have to craft something fun for this.
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The Mummy Returns becomes a much more worrying subject film in SR...
Sounds like a master shedim to me...
yeah...pure nigthmare fuel is it has magical skills
And given the kind of mojo thrown around it was either packing a double digit force or one serious power focus...
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conisdering the Sphynix was also magically active back in the 4th world....hmmm
Hmm. Where are you getting this from? I'll grant that my knowledge of Earthdawn is sorely lacking, but ...
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The Theran Empire, page 32.
The sphinx is a thirty-meters long statue in the harbor of Thera. The legend says it will awaken if isle leaders were to forgot the Theran ideals.
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I guess it got moved to the middle of the Egyptian desert?
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water levels dropped
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See what happens when someone doesn't put the plug back in?
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See what happens when someone doesn't put the plug back in?
Shameless 'plug' there, CanRay . . .
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You haven't figured out by now that I'm completely without shame? :P
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wait for it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg
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The Theran Empire, page 32.
The sphinx is a thirty-meters long statue in the harbor of Thera. The legend says it will awaken if isle leaders were to forgot the Theran ideals.
It is actually kind of funny when you think about the current controversy surrounding the sphinx:-)
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Not to mention it waking up with no nose now. ;D
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By noth! Dabit, wereth by noth!
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By noth! Dabit, wereth by noth!
lol ;D
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ISTR that Howling Coyote makes an appearance (in disguise) during one of the adventures Harlequin's Back - he's a guest at the murder-mystery ball thingy.