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Ambidexterity through cyberware

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Rafkin

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« on: <10-09-14/1149:45> »
It seems to me that replacing your off hand with a cyber arm (or hand) would automatically make you ambidextrous. Is it just game balance that prevents this? Or do you think there is a pseudo-medical reason this wouldn't be the case.

Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #1 on: <10-09-14/1152:07> »
My gueess; manual dexterity is not only a thing of the muscles, tendons, nerves and various other fleshy bits that go into one's hands and arms, but a thing of the mind. Replace your flesh with a machine, and the mind still "knows" one side to be more dominant than the other, unless you're already ambidextrous.

adzling

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« Reply #2 on: <10-09-14/1242:13> »
Agreed.
Basically you should take the approach of "there's no such thing as a free lunch".
So if you have to pay karma for it, then pay karma for it!

My gueess; manual dexterity is not only a thing of the muscles, tendons, nerves and various other fleshy bits that go into one's hands and arms, but a thing of the mind. Replace your flesh with a machine, and the mind still "knows" one side to be more dominant than the other, unless you're already ambidextrous.

Namikaze

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« Reply #3 on: <10-09-14/1245:52> »
I'm no neuroscientist, but I think Herr Brackhaus' rationale makes perfect sense.  Your dominant hand isn't local to the hand, it's definitely tied to other parts of the body as well, which indicates that it should be controlled by the brain.
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Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #4 on: <10-09-14/1403:29> »
I'm no neuroscientist, but I think Herr Brackhaus' rationale makes perfect sense.
I am going to be taking this out of context and using it for future conversations :D

Namikaze

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« Reply #5 on: <10-09-14/1404:30> »
I'm no neuroscientist, but I think Herr Brackhaus' rationale makes perfect sense.
I am going to be taking this out of context and using it for future conversations :D

LOL feel free.  On one of my other forums, we have a tradition of quoting people saying nice things about us, so quote away.  :)
Feel free to keep any karma you earned illicitly, it's on us.

Quote from: Stephen Covey
Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.

Beaumis

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« Reply #6 on: <10-09-14/1527:01> »
I'm no neuroscientist and agree with Brackhaus as well. For a simple test, rub your tummy and pad your head at the same time. It's likely going to take you a few tries and quite a bit of concentration not to pad your head in a circular fashion. Once you have achieved that, do it for a minute and then reverse direction. Chances are you're back to circular padding of your head. ;)

Long story short, training muscles to do something on instinct rather than concentration is what allows people stunts like ambidexterity (and talent of course). Replacing your hands with augmentations will arguably make this even harder because you have to start from scratch once you get them and they are unlikely to ever respond quite as intuitively as your natural limbs.

Rafkin

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« Reply #7 on: <10-10-14/1213:13> »
What do you think about a skillsoft granting ambidexterity? A cyber arm with the muscle memory of a dominant hand?

I not trying to game the system, just thinking out loud and coming up with explanations for characters that buy ambidexterity after character creation. (Other than "just practice")

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #8 on: <10-10-14/1216:22> »
Do you want it as way to justify paying the karma, or as alternative to paying the 8 karma for it?
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

8-bit

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« Reply #9 on: <10-10-14/1224:05> »
What do you think about a skillsoft granting ambidexterity? A cyber arm with the muscle memory of a dominant hand?

I not trying to game the system, just thinking out loud and coming up with explanations for characters that buy ambidexterity after character creation. (Other than "just practice")

I don't see the skillsoft being viable. Activesofts literally replace your control of your muscles and uses preprogrammed memory. That means you don't have ambidexterity or even dominance in either hand, as you aren't controlling your body. As for the cyberarm,  I don't see it there either. Ambidexterity is a brain thing, not a limb thing. Magic can give ambidexterity, so I would say you could have headware giving ambidexterity, but I doubt it would be invented. Ambidexterity doesn't really provide you with a substantial bonus (not in game terms, in real life terms), so I can't imagine that a corp would spend 100,000+ nuyen in research and development to create an implant that probably costs 10,000+ nuyen just to give someone ambidexterity.

So, you could create stuff as a houserule, but under the current rules, I don't see it happening. As for characters that buy it after creation, that's them mentally exercising themselves to become proficient with both sides of their brain, which leads to them being dominant in both sides of their body. It's a flavor thing, and a mechanical thing if that specific character really wants ambidexterity. Shoot a gun using your off-hand enough times, you start getting a little more effective with your left hand. It should be noted that even ambidextrous people cannot do everything with both hands. I have a cousin who throws football with his left hand, but writes with his right hand. He cannot write with his left hand, but he's still what you would consider ambidextrous.
« Last Edit: <10-10-14/1227:40> by 8-bit »

Rafkin

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« Reply #10 on: <10-10-14/1445:10> »
Do you want it as way to justify paying the karma, or as alternative to paying the 8 karma for it?

I usually give a one point discount if they can tell me some reasonable story of how they learned whatever it is they're buying post character creation.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #11 on: <10-10-14/1449:09> »
Spending an entire week doing intensive training of all kinds with the other hand, with the help from an AR learning tool?
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

Kincaid

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« Reply #12 on: <10-10-14/1556:48> »
Lots of people have jobs that require some level of ambidexterity--many of those jobs involve guns, actually.  Put in some time training (realistically, more than a week, but that would really mess with someone's calender) and you should be able to become fairly competent. 
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8-bit

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« Reply #13 on: <10-10-14/1600:34> »
I would think putting people through training to become sufficiently ambidextrous would be cheaper than creating whole new cyberware (including research and development, and cost to actually produce the thing to implant) for it. I could see it being houseruled in though; I'm just not sure why a corporation would spend time and resources into creating it.

adzling

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« Reply #14 on: <10-10-14/1634:08> »
spacers in zero-g would find it helpful i bet ;-)