Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Lich on <10-12-12/1227:47>
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So I'm making a basic character, strictly by the core rule, and am going with a stealth type. So I made the slight exception of modding the shit out of his main gun (to be fair, it started out as really needing to not appear as a floating assault rifle as I ninja my way through a mission.) So, with stealth in mind, how'd I do?
Ares Alpha
Smartgun (Free)
Gernade Launcher (Free)
Airburst Link (Acc.)
Chamaleon Coating [2]
Thermal Suppressor [1]
Skinlink [1]
Electronic Firing [2]
Sling
Trigger Removal
Sound Suppressor (Acc.)
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Aww.
I wanted a gun that shot ninjas at people.
:'(
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I'm going to need atleast two more points of Armorer and probably a focus for that.
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Sound Suppressor already reduces the thermal flash, so you don't need it and the Thermal Suppressor. Skinlinks are also available as Electronics Accessories, you don't have to get them modded into the gun.
If you ditch both those mods, you can move the Sound Suppressor to be an internal mod (internal gives a -6 modifier instead of a -4).
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....What's a Ninja doing with an assault rifle? :x
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....What's a Ninja doing with an assault rifle? :x
Assassinating people with Gun-Fu.
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sudden horrible character idea: drone rigger ninja. drone shaped to look like a floating assault rifle (or a babylon 5 human star cruiser)
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Sound Suppressor already reduces the thermal flash, so you don't need it and the Thermal Suppressor. Skinlinks are also available as Electronics Accessories, you don't have to get them modded into the gun.
If you ditch both those mods, you can move the Sound Suppressor to be an internal mod (internal gives a -6 modifier instead of a -4).
Having the Skinlink as part of the external system seems a bit cheaty unless you are physically touching the device, like in an underbarrel mount
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I'd go with a Yamaha Sakura Fubuki, an Ares Slivergun, a Raecor Sting, and a Yamaha Pulsar.
That gives you 2 pistols that can be decently hidden, 1 that is easily hidden, and 1 suppressed burstfire gun. Maybe add the Ares Predator IV if you're worried about your GM trying to screw you over by tossing overarmored foes at you.
I've seen more people get geeked because they relied too much on one super special modified weapon or vehicle.
And it's much easier to simply put a pistol in a pocket of your tacsuit....
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Aww.
I wanted a gun that shot ninja at people.
:'(
+1, me too.
Plural same as singular ;)
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Aww.
I wanted a gun that shot ninja at people.
:'(
+1, me too.
Plural same as singular ;)
Dr. McNinja keeps jamming the weapon with his labcoat. ;D
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....What's a Ninja doing with an assault rifle? :x
Well my own view on that subject is why wouldn't a ninja use guns and other modern weapons?
But really that's more a play on words. He isn't a Street Sam, he's a Street Ninja.
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Smartgun X with underbarrel weight mod, personalized grip, reduced barrel, chameleon coating and a magnification sight.
simple action to take aim and ignore range penalties, long burst to bring the target down, rinse and repeat. highly concealable, quiet, cheap.
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I'd go for one of the Laser weapons for a ninja. No sound, no flash, just a red dot.
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I'd go for one of the Laser weapons for a ninja. No sound, no flash, just a red dot.
Um, Makki... a pulse-laser style weapon would create a rather loud noise, between the lasing mechanism and the super-heating of the air between you and the target. Possibly also a lightning-bolt-esque flash if it ionizes the air as well.
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For some reason I always imagine the star wars blaster sounds for laser weapons burning the air.
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A couple of things I would personally consider:
What is your target environment? You infeltrating building? Urban sprawls?
Are you a stealth first shoot last build?
What's the GMing style of your GM? Realistic foes? Has a madon for cyber zombies?
The reasons I ask is an assault rifle isn't exactly conductive to being a building sneak. You're looking at 30+ inches of thick, ridged machinery... Which takes you out of any HVAC sneaking... Thus removing a viable option for prowling around a building unnoticed.
It's also a 2 handed weapon, which can cause an issue if you have to run and gun dealing with passkeys, doors, etc. it's bulk is also loud when slung. And in a confined area a suppressor may not help as much as a silencer (remember sub-sonic ammo too!)
A heavy pistol or a machine pistol might be a better option for you... They are easier to hide, cheaper to buy (no need for the chameleon mod) and at the short ranges of inner building combat are almost as effective while leaving a hand free to do other things in the middle of combat...
That's my opinion anyways.
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Multiple weapons. That's what you want. Personally, I'd go with three weapons. One melee, and two ranged. The melee weapon changes depending on what skills you have. I'm fond of Blades, so I typically pick up a katana or similar. If you use clubs, then a telescoping staff is a good pick. If you choose unarmed, then get the hardliner gloves. For your ranged weapon, an assault rifle or SMG is a good choice. Stack the RC so that you can fire two short bursts without recoil. Next, you'll want a gun for short range or as a backup. A machine pistol is a good choice here, since you're already going to have the automatics skill for the main gun. Pick one with a decent ammo capacity, and build the RC as before.
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....What's a Ninja doing with an assault rifle? :x
Being brutally effective with the most lethal technology available to him, just like they traditionally were (inasmuch as the hyped/misunderstood ninja traditionally were anything)?
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Aww. I wanted a gun that shot ninjas at people.
The ninja unions wouldn't have it. Here's a catapult that shoots tanks, however.
[spoiler](http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT5z8XLYMtj4VKnmR5sUOUVU7fIq201pgY7Mid9-ZvR4mrCgosNzQ)[/spoiler]
More on-topic, Reaver's already mentioned that if you're going with a more infiltration-specialist, having a hand free to handle hardware and other gear (like grappel guns for those third-floor-entries) would be more useful to you than a weapon that's relatively easy to perceive and not that hard to throw off in melee due to its size and inherent loud quality of an assault rifle. In most situations, anyway, but I'm thinking more of the indoors/urban combat situation, where combat rarely occurs outside 10m.
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Aww. I wanted a gun that shot ninjas at people.
The ninja unions wouldn't have it. Here's a catapult that shoots tanks, however.
[spoiler](http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT5z8XLYMtj4VKnmR5sUOUVU7fIq201pgY7Mid9-ZvR4mrCgosNzQ)[/spoiler]
More on-topic, Reaver's already mentioned that if you're going with a more infiltration-specialist, having a hand free to handle hardware and other gear (like grappel guns for those third-floor-entries) would be more useful to you than a weapon that's relatively easy to perceive and not that hard to throw off in melee due to its size and inherent loud quality of an assault rifle. In most situations, anyway, but I'm thinking more of the indoors/urban combat situation, where combat rarely occurs outside 10m.
For those CQB situations, a Viper with AP Flechettes is the way to go for 1-handed firepower, if your GM allows it. There's some ambiguity on whether AP Flechettes "count" for Flrechette Only weapons, though, so check first. It's -20% range, which is a "whopping" meter off Short Range (4m vs 5m) and Medium Range still goes well beyond the 10 meter mark. In return you get 8P, AP +0, in a totally legal (except for the APF ammo) weapon that comes with built-in suppression.
Plenty of ammo capacity since it uses a 30-round "clip", and an Improved Range Finder will help with those longer-range situations.
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Firearms are anathema to the code of the Silent Killer.
Ducks too.
Ducks are anathema too.
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A ninja is not supposed to be seen or heard. Guns are noisy and draw attention. A poisoned blade or something like a dart or shuriken is the kind of thing a ninja would normally use (though a ninja wouldn't hesitate to pick up a fallen gun in the middle of combat, of course).
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Call me lazy, but I would just have gotten my paws on an Urban Fighter with a ceramic silencer.
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But with the damage shurikens do, only a troll could kill you with one before you scream :p
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But with the damage shurikens do, only a troll could kill you with one before you scream :p
Poison, my good man, poison. Slab, Laes, Shade, whatever works for you.
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A ninja is not supposed to be seen or heard. Guns are noisy and draw attention. A poisoned blade or something like a dart or shuriken is the kind of thing a ninja would normally use (though a ninja wouldn't hesitate to pick up a fallen gun in the middle of combat, of course).
A silenced gun with electronic firing (which makes it caseless) isn't really that noisy (-7 to perception against a threshold 2). With the invention of Capsule rounds, I see no reason a ninja wouldn't be slinging around a silenced firearm to deliver their poison cocktails.
For those CQB situations, a Viper with AP Flechettes is the way to go for 1-handed firepower, if your GM allows it. There's some ambiguity on whether AP Flechettes "count" for Flrechette Only weapons, though, so check first. It's -20% range, which is a "whopping" meter off Short Range (4m vs 5m) and Medium Range still goes well beyond the 10 meter mark. In return you get 8P, AP +0, in a totally legal (except for the APF ammo) weapon that comes with built-in suppression.
Plenty of ammo capacity since it uses a 30-round "clip", and an Improved Range Finder will help with those longer-range situations.
First off, if AP Flechette ammo counted as Flechette ammo for Flechette only weapons, it would be stated in the AP Flechette entry. It is not. There is no ambiguity here, there is occasionally nice GMs that allow it when it makes since.
Second off, the Ares Viper Slivergun doesn't even fire Flechette ammunition to begin with. It fires metal slivers that "count as flechette ammunition". A nice GM may let you buy a tungsten block of slivers for it, but it was never even a flechette only weapon to begin with. It's a special ammunition that counts as flechette rounds weapon.
Your case of ambiguity isn't really a case of ambiguity, it's a case of "well it doesn't say things don't work this way, so I'll just assume they do."
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For those CQB situations, a Viper with AP Flechettes is the way to go for 1-handed firepower, if your GM allows it. There's some ambiguity on whether AP Flechettes "count" for Flrechette Only weapons, though, so check first. It's -20% range, which is a "whopping" meter off Short Range (4m vs 5m) and Medium Range still goes well beyond the 10 meter mark. In return you get 8P, AP +0, in a totally legal (except for the APF ammo) weapon that comes with built-in suppression.
Plenty of ammo capacity since it uses a 30-round "clip", and an Improved Range Finder will help with those longer-range situations.
First off, if AP Flechette ammo counted as Flechette ammo for Flechette only weapons, it would be stated in the AP Flechette entry. It is not. There is no ambiguity here, there is occasionally nice GMs that allow it when it makes since.
Second off, the Ares Viper Slivergun doesn't even fire Flechette ammunition to begin with. It fires metal slivers that "count as flechette ammunition". A nice GM may let you buy a tungsten block of slivers for it, but it was never even a flechette only weapon to begin with. It's a special ammunition that counts as flechette rounds weapon.
Your case of ambiguity isn't really a case of ambiguity, it's a case of "well it doesn't say things don't work this way, so I'll just assume they do."
*self-redacted due to uncivil content*
*Summary: You appear to universally take the most restrictive semantic interpretation of the grammatical structures as the only possible meaning when reading a body of information. Others, including myself, do not and, instead, acknowledge that the meaning of a passage may vary greatly depending on meta-contextual information, and then seek to find the most mechanically consistent interpretation that fits with the perceived intent of the author, as well as all presented "fluff". You are not an employee of Catalyst, nor is your account displaying as a registered member of the Demo Team, therefore your opinions and interpretations carry no more authority than anyone else's, and are certainly not the absolute Word Of God, which is reserved for the author who penned a given section... or possibly Mr. Hardy, the Line Developer. Please quit acting as if they are.*
Now, more on point, please notice that the name Armor Piercing Flechettes can be neatly described as "flechettes that contain armor-piercing properties," which is where the ambiguity comes in. It's not the exact "Flechette Ammunition" called by Flechette Only weapons, which hyper-restrictive types use as grounds to preclude APF ammo from use with (f) weapons. However, a more moderate interpretation brings up the possibility that the writer considered the name as being so obvious an indication of intent that he didn't feel the need to redundantly declare APF ammo "usable in Flechette Only weapons" in the body text... since, you know, the word "Flechette" is right there following the descriptive prefix "Armor Piercing."
And, yes, I'm very well aware that Viper ammo only "counts as" Flechette ammo, which makes APF a sketchy choice even if it can be used interchangeably with "standard" Flechettes. However, exactly how far "counts as" goes is yet another ambiguity, which means it's up to the GM of that particular table to decide how it all interacts. That's why, if you notice, I bloody well told him to check with his GM.
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There is a difference between asking the GM to create a house rule for you and something being ambiguous by the rules. This case is not ambiguous. A reading of the rules shows no ambiguity. If something says that it can use Flechette ammunition only, and there is a type of ammunition called Flechette, that is the ammunition it can use.
Knowing a slight bit about guns, this isn't exactly a out of line either. Trying firing a high power round out of a gun not rated for it and your gun goes kaploowie.
As far as most restrictive, no, I take what the rules clearly state and propose that. If I tell someone about a house rules, I tell them it's a house rule or common house rule. I don't tell them to go and tell their GM, "Well this is ambiguous so can I do it," when the rules are quite clear. That's just effectively trying to sleaze something by the GM without being wholly honest.
However, a more moderate interpretation
This is the stem of the problem you seem to have with me. I don't give people advice based on interpreting the rules to a point where I think they were intended. I tell them based on what the rules actually say.
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While I have many times disagreed with your reading of "what the rules actually say", Wells, (since quite often they're not nearly clear enough for "what they actually say" to actually be one clear concept) I think I have to agree here.
The gun fires slivers with similar properties to flechettes, not actual flechettes. Maybe you can convince your GM that it'd be fair for there to also be AP versions of these slivers (and I do think it's quite fair to do so), but that's clearly a houserule, and not RAW.
I'm generally a proponent of house rules, though. No one game system can be a perfect match for every group of players, after all.
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I house rule the hell out of my games, but I don't give people rules advice based on my house rules. I also clearly state when I suggest a houserule that it is just that.
If I had a player come to me asking this question saying "It's ambiguous", I'd turn it down out of hand because there is only one clear way that it reads and that smells like a munchkiny excuse to be not quite honest.
The Viper is already quite powerful enough without AP Flechettes in all honesty, and we have no evidence that the metal slivers it fires aren't already a heavier metal (such as tungsten). Then again, my personal houserule is that AP Flechettes can only be fired from weapons with High Power Chambering), making it the high power version of ammo for flechette ammunition only guns.
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However, a more moderate interpretation
This is the stem of the problem you seem to have with me. I don't give people advice based on interpreting the rules to a point where I think they were intended. I tell them based on what the rules actually say.
The Viper is already quite powerful enough without AP Flechettes in all honesty, and we have no evidence that the metal slivers it fires aren't already a heavier metal (such as tungsten). Then again, my personal houserule is that AP Flechettes can only be fired from weapons with High Power Chambering), making it the high power version of ammo for flechette ammunition only guns.
Actually, Wells, the core of my problem with you is that you present yourself in your writing as highly egotistical and presumptuous... not to mention absolutely ignorant of the psychological mechanics of how the human mind processes information. For example, you actually appear to honestly believe what you're saying when you claim that you are the unimpeachable arbiter of Absolute Truth. I'm not trying to insult you, or say that you're a bad person. I'm just telling you how I'm interpreting your writing.
However, the simple fact of the matter is that you can't tell people "what the rules actually say," no matter how much of a subject-matter expert you deem yourself to be. You can only tell people your interpretation of what the rules say. Why? Because every single thing anyone does, including deciding how to apply a book of rules, is interpretation.
Right now, reading these words, you're interpreting variations of color and brightness on an illuminated panel into phonograms, then interpreting how the phonograms should be combined into syllables and the syllables into words and interpreting which of the plethora of possible meanings, both connotative and denotative, should be applied to those words. Then you're moving on to interpreting how the words combine into phrases and passages, along with the connotative and denotative implications of those, and then you're interpreting how each passage fits into the gestalt of your existing knowledge, and all the implications of that.
Each step has room for variation, based on personal, meta-contextual information... things such as your background, your current lifestyle and other social context, prejudicial dispositions (such as not liking how APF works as-written, or thinking that the Viper is "already quite powerful enough"), your emotional state at the time of reading, etc, etc, etc. The compounding variations can create a wide variety of different interpretations of the same raw source material. That's why two people can, for example, read the same passage and come away with vastly different interpretations of the integrated matrix created by the information within.
For example, you can interpret it as my opening comment as me simply cataloging my personal observations of certain negative aspects of your expressed personality, presented in the context of my explaining my distaste for you in the course of a civilized rebuttal, which is my intent, or you can interpret what I've said as a deliberate attempt to insult, mock, and/or condescend towards you, which is not my intent. However, at the end of the day, I have no control over your interpretation of the presented information, nor the interpretation of anyone else who reads this.
And, for those who are wondering why I'm leaving this public instead of taking it to PMs... simply put, it's because it has never hurt anyone to stop and take a moment to think about how they think, and hopefully I can increase some peoples' self-awareness.
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And, more back on topic, actual ninjas, not the media-driven modern stereotype, had no honor when it came to getting the job done. They were assassins, plain and simple. They used disguises, stealth, trickery, sneaky gadgets, and any other tool they could get their hands on or concoct, no matter how "dishonorable" it was, so why should a modern "ninja" would no more hesitate to snipe someone from a kilometer away if it's the quickest, cleanest way to kill the target?
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Is there any topic you guys can't turn into a pissing and condescension contest?
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However, the simple fact of the matter is that you can't tell people "what the rules actually say," no matter how much of a subject-matter expert you deem yourself to be. You can only tell people your interpretation of what the rules say. Why? Because every single thing anyone does, including deciding how to apply a book of rules, is interpretation.
We aren't translating the rules to a different language. There is not intent vs. literal fight here. There quite literally is what the rules say, and I have, not once, debated what the authors intended rule is. I've argued what the actual rule in the book says.
You use interpretation to mean "I can make it say what I want". I can use interpretation to make Dragons be wonderful fluffy creatures that fly around popping rainbows out their ass, they have the ability for trid phantasm right. However, it isn't supported by any rules or fluff written for the game as far as I can tell.
You present your interpretation as supported by the rules, when it really is not. You're interpreting based on perceived intent rather than the actual physical wording of the document.
A) Armor Piercing Flechettes can be neatly described as "flechettes that contain armor-piercing properties,"
B) It's not the exact "Flechette Ammunition"
C) which hyper-restrictive types use as grounds to preclude APF ammo from use with (f) weapons
D) a more moderate interpretation
E) writer considered the name as being so obvious an indication of intent
F) "Flechette" is right there following the descriptive prefix "Armor Piercing."
Now, you can argue till your blue in the face that your interpretation is just a reading of the rules, but you made it clear in your reasoning that you've read the rules and that you decided what you thought was the author's intent.
A) Can be, could be, doesn't really matter, because they aren't described as "flechettes that contain armor-piercing properties."
B) Exactly my point. Flechette only weapons fire the exact ammunition Flechette. Thanks for admitting it.
C) There is no hyper-restrictive, there is most and least restrictive (there are only two options). This is the same crap politicians use to color themselves in a good light.
D) Again, it's not a moderate ruling, it's a least restrictive ruling. Second, it's an interpretation based on intent, not the actual rules.
E) Intent does not matter when following the rules laid out in the book. It may matter for house ruling, that's it.
F) So anything treated as an Explosive round can just be bumped up to EX-Explosive right?
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Is there any topic you guys can't turn into a pissing and condescension contest?
Apparently not.
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Is there any topic you guys can't turn into a pissing and condescension contest?
Apparently not.
Oh, don't worry, this is the last one. I'm done wasting my breath.
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Oh, don't worry, this is the last one. I'm done wasting my breath.
Wouldn't "I'm done cramping my fingers." be more appropriate? ^^
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Oh, don't worry, this is the last one. I'm done wasting my breath.
Wouldn't "I'm done cramping my fingers." be more appropriate? ^^
It's a metaphor. Hush. ;)
Anyway... as I mentioned earlier, I really don't see a real "ninja" type character... as opposed to a character emulating the stereotype popularized in the media... having a problem with sniping.
They were essentially spec.ops commandos, who used every dirty, dishonorable tactic they could think of, from poisons to disguising themselves as servants, to get an edge. If they'd had guns that could drop someone from a mile off I'm sure they'd have used them, too.
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I would just say that it takes a very particular personality type to become a successful sniper. In some ways, it is easier (psychologically speaking) to kill someone in hand to hand combat than to sit back a thousand yards off and play god. In addition, it takes a lot of training to be a proficient sniper. Which is why you don't often see snipers who are hand to hand combat masters IRL.
Someone being a real ninja would use guns, if necessary, but a real ninja would try and kill their target in such a way that people never knew they were there until they were long gone.
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I would just say that it takes a very particular personality type to become a successful sniper. In some ways, it is easier (psychologically speaking) to kill someone in hand to hand combat than to sit back a thousand yards off and play god. In addition, it takes a lot of training to be a proficient sniper. Which is why you don't often see snipers who are hand to hand combat masters IRL.
Someone being a real ninja would use guns, if necessary, but a real ninja would try and kill their target in such a way that people never knew they were there until they were long gone.
According to literature and not Hollywood... Hand to hand for a ninja usually resulted in death if it wasn't a killing blow delivered from the shadows. (knife to the neck, garrote, poison blowgun)
Everyone seems to forget that ninja had to go up against Samurai, who were trained from birth in weapons and martial arts... Arts and disciplines denied to the common citizens that ninjas were from... Leaving them at a distinct tactical disadvantage in combat. Hence the ninja's reliance on destraction, poison, evasion, and guile.
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Hence my mention of 'psychologically speaking'. But yes, there is a reason why ninja used poison, darts, and shuriken. They were much more likely to use guerilla tactics and poison to accomplish their goals than long-range attacks. There are reasons for this, of course. When dealing with archery, it is harder to get a one-shot kill the further away you are. Especially if the person you're shooting is wearing armor. A ninja stood a much better chance of accomplishing their goal if they struck from stealth, looking either to cripple or kill their foe on the first attack. In Shadowrun, a monofilament garrote would be an ideal ninja weapon, as would a disguised blade coated in a fast acting toxin or drug. Slab or Laes would be ideal choices, since they cause instant unconsciousness, which makes a finishing blow easy, but pepper punch and smoke grenades would also be included in the arsenal.
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I get what you're saying about cold-blooded murder from across the street being tougher to acclimate to but, just as a point of psychology, snipers are vastly less likely to suffer PTSD than people in CQB situations. Only people less likely, in fact, are pilots and those operating long-range, indirect-fire weapons.
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There are different reasons for that, of course. For fighter pilots and those firing artillery, tanks, or other such weapon systems, the fact is that you can't see the people you're killing, so it makes it easier to deal with, in much the same way as killing in a video game is much easier than in real life. For snipers, however, there is a different risk than PTSD. Snipers typically undergo rigorous psych evaluations before even getting trained, because the fact that you are sitting somewhere, watching through your scope, and playing god is something that easily leads one to become a sociopath. The risk for snipers, then, isn't typically PTSD, but that they will lose their grounding, and really start playing god.
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One of the main roles Ninja's traditionally played was espionage, primarily arson. They were also known to use explosive devices. They weren't all about subtlety.
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There are different reasons for that, of course. For fighter pilots and those firing artillery, tanks, or other such weapon systems, the fact is that you can't see the people you're killing, so it makes it easier to deal with, in much the same way as killing in a video game is much easier than in real life. For snipers, however, there is a different risk than PTSD. Snipers typically undergo rigorous psych evaluations before even getting trained, because the fact that you are sitting somewhere, watching through your scope, and playing god is something that easily leads one to become a sociopath. The risk for snipers, then, isn't typically PTSD, but that they will lose their grounding, and really start playing god.
Very true. The connecting factor, of course, is the ease with which the soldiers can dehumanize his target and create mental and emotional distance from the event... and you are, again, quite correct that snipers have other mental-health hazards directly related to their own method of "distance making".
One small difference of opinion, though, is that I, based on my smattering of psychology and sociology classes (gotta love the Humanities requirements on an Engineering degree), personally am of the opinion that one has to have a personality that is already "hardwired" with traits aligned toward a given mental-health issue to ever develop it as a full blown mental health problem. Environmental conditions can, of course, take them from "personality trait" to "disorder," but can't create those behaviors from scratch. I am by no means an expert, but that's the general feel I've gotten.
In the end, of course, it boils down to the same thing... the military screens out the guys that don't look like they'll be able to keep a grip on their marbles along with the guys that will choke when it comes time to do cold-blooded murder on behalf of their country.
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One of the main roles Ninja's traditionally played was espionage, primarily arson. They were also known to use explosive devices. They weren't all about subtlety.
You're talking about a time before radio detonators, time delay fuses, or even compact explosives. The best they had has black powder... It took a heck of alot of subtlety to be able to get into a position to set a fire in the right area (target). As for espionage, that by itself is another form of subtlety. Feudal Japan was different place and time that still shapes Japan's identity. Most agreements were made face to face, only edicts and treaties were committed to paper. Depending on what the ninja was after, espionage would and could consist of eavesdropping, snatch and grab from a dynamo's living quarters, or a host of other things. Now consider that unless you were 'warrior' caste (Samurai, military) the possession of weapons and armor was a death sentence, subtlety was a ninja's best tool.
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Yes, but the personality types and aptitudes that would make one a good sniper lend themselves easily to becoming a sociopath. You have to be patient, intelligent, capable of calculating multiple variables and adjust for moving targets, and you have to be able to look down that scope and watch someone's head explode because of your actions.
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Maybe the Ninja is a sniper with a dart rifle? No obvious damage, the poison could be calibrated for delayed effect, and none of this 'watching heads explode through the scope' business.
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I'd just like to point out that Ninja were very often trained to use the weapons of their enemies, and also in disarming techniques meant to acquire them. Yes, swords were illegal for them, but then again, Ninjas are already illegal anyway, so why would you assume they didn't train with them just because "not available to their caste"? They fall outside of the system.
At least, that's what 2 years of studying Japanology (yes, it's a thing) at college taught me.
I also agree that a ninja would do whatever it takes to get the job done. Whether a particular Ninja knows how to snipe is a case-by-case deal, but all of them would use a sniper if they knew how and the situation called for it. And since they're trained from a much younger age than our current soldiers, direct comparisons to mental states, training time, etc, may not apply.
Maybe some Ninjas would even use Skillwires to complement their art? (like, they'd know stealth, infiltration, disguises, a few weapons, and then if they needed a very specific skill for a 1-off thing... skillwire)
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Wise Sensei say "Only piss in wind that is not blowing at you"
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I also agree that a ninja would do whatever it takes to get the job done. Whether a particular Ninja knows how to snipe is a case-by-case deal, but all of them would use a sniper if they knew how and the situation called for it. And since they're trained from a much younger age than our current soldiers, direct comparisons to mental states, training time, etc, may not apply.
I really can't seem to stress this enough to people. Their method of infiltration was most commonly through disguise rather than stealth, and when it was stealth it was usually accompanied by a nice bright shiny fire that served distraction. Dressing as their enemy to infiltrate their enemy, their normally carried weapons were those of their enemy.
The best they had has black powder... It took a heck of alot of subtlety to be able to get into a position to set a fire in the right area (target).
They used soft shell bombs (often eggshell) to release poison gasses and/or smoke. They also used hard shell bombs with pottery (often the pottery was the shell) or iron for a more grenade like explosive as well. The explosives were not just a tool to destroy for espionage, but also as a weapon.
When subtlety was not enough, they still knew how to get in and light a fire.
Of course they often used caltrop like bits and later even primitive landmines to thin out pursuers as well.
Of course, even when infiltrating without a distraction, a ninja wasn't trying to be completely silent, just quieter than his box of crickets.
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Wise Sensei say "Only piss in wind that is not blowing at you"
Confucius say: "He who runs in Shadows, will trip on rocky road of turmoil."
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"rocky road of turmoil."
Ok I should never post whilst a) sick and b) sleep deprived but:
This would be a sort of bonus paydata to go with the maple syrup theft thing? some sort of awakened confectionary?
(They say a joke is no good if you have to explain it but since I suspect I've fallen far beyond my usual incoherence to the kinds of levels normally only exhibited by those who've been mainlining the chemicals section of Arsenal for about a month... Rocky Road (http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/rockyroadcrunchbars_87104) )
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Pew-Pew-Pew-Pew, Ninja Gun, A pew-pew-pew-pew, ninja guuuuuun.
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You need some like...million or so 2070 G.I. joe Snake-Eyes mini-drone NINJAS, with pilot 6, and a Target:Blades like a hundred...THEN shoot those out of a gun. Imagine.....like BAM....4 inch tall SNAKE EYES...times like a HUNDRED....uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....na..na..na...naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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or like BAMMMMM its a SNAKE EYES DRONE!!!!! Times a HUNDRED, plus 6!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Stonefur, man... I don't know what you're tripping on right now, but you should share. ;D
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High on life maaaaaaaaaaaaan....and no I don't live in Colorado or Washington lol
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On a serious note though, i think ninja could have some sort of offensive EMP weaponry...shut down all the wireless networks and electronics that the world relies on. Ninja best skill is their mastery of perception and deception, using the weaknesses of the enemy. EMP throwing stars and spikes, things like that.
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On a serious note though, i think ninja could have some sort of offensive EMP weaponry...shut down all the wireless networks and electronics that the world relies on. Ninja best skill is their mastery of perception and deception, using the weaknesses of the enemy. EMP throwing stars and spikes, things like that.
I can dig it.
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Behold, the ninja glock. hahah
Bang bang bang bng, ninja guuuuun, blam blam blama blam blam, ninja guuuuuun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jAvYQSsGdMw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jAvYQSsGdMw)
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If one were to make Bust-A-Move ninjas, then make a gun to launch them, would that count as a ninja gun?
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Aww.
I wanted a gun that shot ninja at people.
:'(
+1, me too.
Plural same as singular ;)
+1 also.
I knew better when I clicked the link but there was just enough "But what if..." that I had to come look. I was disappointed :(