[valavaern]

So, I've been thinking... would it be possible to 'upgrade' a fake SIN to the point where it would actually count as a real SIN?  Off the top of my head, I'd think it'd take around 25k (the equivalent amount of nuyen you would get from 5 BP).  I imagine the availability of it would be pretty high, though.  :x

[foolofsound]

So, I've been thinking... would it be possible to 'upgrade' a fake SIN to the point where it would actually count as a real SIN?  Off the top of my head, I'd think it'd take around 25k (the equivalent amount of nuyen you would get from 5 BP).  I imagine the availability of it would be pretty high, though.  :x

Generally, nothing is stopping you from pursuing a real SIN. All you have to do is hire a lawyer, make a case that you will be a productive citizen (read: are employable), have a clean (or at least, not particularly dirty) record, and perhaps shell out some money to expedite the process. Getting a real SIN is easier than getting citizenship today; governments and corps alike WANT people to have SINs.

[Ethan]

Apparently, Nadja Daviar somehow amended the 14th Amendment by allowing a UCAS SINner to vouch for a SINless non-metahuman and be granted probationary legal SINs in 2057.

I figure if you're human you can easily bribe someone to vouch for you and then grease the wheels afterwards. Maybe it's been amended to include metas as well by 2074.

[Mirikon]

Getting a SIN is easy enough, as mentioned. Just show you have a (mostly) clean record, submit the fingerprints, retinal scan, blood sample, drekcetera, and pass a few bribes around. Same as any other legal process. Of course, a runner with a SIN becomes very easy to track, since the SIN database can be searched by any law enforcement officer by biometrics. Meaning you best not get caught on trid or leave any blood behind when you do shadowy deeds, or you'll find the Knights on your doorstep.

[PeterSmith]

Of course, a runner with a SIN becomes very easy to track, since the SIN database can be searched by any law enforcement officer by biometrics.

Only SIN databases they have access to. Do you think that Ares is going to let Renraku's police force have access to their information, just because they claim to be tracking a criminal?

[foolofsound]

Only SIN databases they have access to. Do you think that Ares is going to let Renraku's police force have access to their information, just because they claim to be tracking a criminal?

Depends. The Corporate Courts has rules on that. Unless the company/nation in question has reason to not release the information, the generally will.

[Mirikon]

The SIN databases are matters of public record, IIRC. They have to be, or otherwise anyone can claim to be a citizen of X corp or Y nation. However, note that merely being able to search the SIN databases doesn't mean that there will be actionable or legitimate information there. In addition to having 'classified' or 'redacted' entries, you can also have entries that are 'misfiled', making them harder to find. So if Horizon wants to keep some of the info on Gary Cline's SIN under wraps, there are plenty of ways to do it. That's just an example, mind you, but the truth is that it makes sense for the basic info on the SIN registries to be searchable by all law enforcement and corporate security types. Of course, your KE cop in Seattle probably won't be able to search the SIN database for all Renraku employees at the home office in Chiba, but Renraku Citizens in Seattle and the surrounding area? Most likely. Though of course if the two corps are having a spat, the requests can take time for 'processing' due to 'increased demand', or might get 'lost in transmission' or 'corrupted accidentally'. You know the drill.

[Reaver]

The SIN databases are matters of public record, IIRC. They have to be, or otherwise anyone can claim to be a citizen of X corp or Y nation. However, note that merely being able to search the SIN databases doesn't mean that there will be actionable or legitimate information there. In addition to having 'classified' or 'redacted' entries, you can also have entries that are 'misfiled', making them harder to find. So if Horizon wants to keep some of the info on Gary Cline's SIN under wraps, there are plenty of ways to do it. That's just an example, mind you, but the truth is that it makes sense for the basic info on the SIN registries to be searchable by all law enforcement and corporate security types. Of course, your KE cop in Seattle probably won't be able to search the SIN database for all Renraku employees at the home office in Chiba, but Renraku Citizens in Seattle and the surrounding area? Most likely. Though of course if the two corps are having a spat, the requests can take time for 'processing' due to 'increased demand', or might get 'lost in transmission' or 'corrupted accidentally'. You know the drill.

I think you are pretty close to this spot on here.

The SIN databases are public record and all branches of government and authority have the right to search them... at least to the point to prove citizenship with yoru listed country or corporate office. And while That Seattle cop might not be able to randomly search the Renraku Chiba DB for the SIN, Boarder services and immigration would still have a data trail detailing him entering into Seattle, crossed referranced with Chiba proving that he is a Legal Renraku Citizen and that he is allowed to be in Seattle.

As you mentioned, proving that one has a SIN and charging someone with a crime are two seperate things. That Renraku Employee might be wanted in Seattle for drug possession... But if Renraku doesn't consider that drug to be a criminal offense, they are under no obligation to turn him over to KE Seattle... and KE Seattle can't go onto Renraku property to arrest him without Renraku's expressed permission! As long as Mr. Renraku wageslave stays on Renraku property, he is home free... He walks across the street to get a soykaf however, KE Seattle can nab, charge and throw his butt in jail.

welcome to the wonderful world of extra-territoriality and citizenships!


Yes, that really is an aneurysm you feel coming on when you try to wrap your head around this wonderful issue.

[foolofsound]

Don't forget that your home government/corp can demand that you be extradited if you are arrested outside of their territory, so long as they care enough to bother.

[CanRay]

Yes, that really is an aneurysm you feel coming on when you try to wrap your head around this wonderful issue.

It gets worse when you realize this exists IRL, right now.

The hard part is getting from the embassy and outside the country afterwards.  I think they just made a movie about the CIA and the Canadian Secretary of State for External Affairs doing something in Iran back in the '80s that could be something right out of Shadowrun, if it hadn't happened IRL.

[Mirikon]

Well, the line between "Shadowrunner" and "Spy" has always been hazy, and spies have been doing their thing for millenia.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

This, right here, is a prime reason to acquire the knowledge skills of 'Inter-Corporate Politics' and 'Current Events' as high as you can.  Switch your ID over to 'Lone Star citizen' and Knight Errant is suddenly running into all sorts of roadblocks.  Mix and match as necessary.