Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => The Secret History => Topic started by: Incrociare on <04-15-16/0700:24>
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So, everyone agrees that Lofwyr is kind of a dick, but could people provide some instances, with colour commentary?
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Now these are not my own statements but rather from assorted sources as you can see here (http://forums.dumpshock.com/lofiversion/index.php/t19302.html):
Some people like to eat frog's legs. Lofwyr likes to eat lizard legs. Hence, anacondas.
Thousands of years ago Lofwyr came across an elf. It was so terrified that it fled south into the Wyrmwood. It was also so terrified that all of its descendants are now bitchy emo people.
Lofwyr doesn't fly. He pushes the Earth down.
Lofwyr does not take play dice with the universe. He dictates the outcome.
Superman crushes coal in his hand to make a diamond, Lofwyr crushes African nations to dig for diamonds in his mines.
Lofwyr found gold while picking his nose.
Lofwyr doesn't play god. Playing is for children.
The original draft of The Lord of the Rings featured Lofwyr instead of Smaug. It was only 5 pages long, as Smaug ate the halfing's ass and bankrupted Sauron halfway through the first chapter.
A high tide means Lofwyr is flying over your coast. The tide is caused by God pissing his pants.
Lofwyr doesn't believe in Australia.
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Then there was the time a buddy of mine cross Ol' Goldie here (http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=17244.msg305041#msg305041):
While tooling around in Europe our group discovered Lofwyr had standing reservations under Herr Brackhaus for several posh restaurants and clubs in different cities. Imagine it was so nobody knew when or where he might turn up.
Our face must have been feeling a bit cheeky and took to turning up at some of these spots with a date in tow, taking the Herr Brackhaus reservation. Now these kind of places even celebrities have to fight tooth and nail to just get onto a list, thus impressing his date with his 'connections' to breeze them in right to a table.
As most did not know exactly what Herr Brackhaus looked like plus most would not dream of someone passing themselves like this he got away with it for a good while.
At least until the day the Big L and Herr Bracky turned up for a meeting right in the middle of the face's meal with a leggy redhead from the Tir.
Sure do miss that guy....
All of which is why we work where we are, tweaking Loffie's golden snout.
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Lofwyr is well known for taking exception to failure, which makes him peckish. What do you think he does with the tasty morsels in his presence when he has no further use for them?
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The REAL* reason Lofwyr's a dick?
He still hasn't managed to get the full rights to ketchup under the S-K label.
*Any resemblance to canon is purely accidental . . .
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Feats Lofwyr's temper are splattered about through 25 years and 50+ books..... so memory is fuzzy, but here are a couple I remember:
Hired a team to raid a facility, paying well above premium. All but one member died, that last member was prompty paid..... And died during his 'vacation'.
Later it was discovered that:
The site was under exclusive control of SK Prime. (The division of SK that Lofwyr personally oversees).
The file size retrieved was too small to be important.
That Security was increased 3 fold for the week the run was to take place....
So.... it turns out, Lofwyr hired the team to test his new security measures. Then made sure that no one who defeated said measures was left alive to tell exactly how they got past....
During Crash 2.0 Lofwyr shut OFF the matrix to Europe, saving a lot of data, but also showing that he had the power to destroy/cripple any european government at a whim. (By shutting down their matrix connections totally).
There are more....
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Spinrad has a fair amount of replacement parts thanks to Lofwyr.
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Let's just face it. When someone says, "Never cut a deal with a dragon," they really mean "Never cut a deal with anyone or anything that resembles Lofwyr." All dragons tend to move according to their own plans, and use the 'young races' as pawns. Some are more benevolent about it (Big D, Hestaby), and some use them as ready sacrifices (Alamais, Sirrurg), but none compare to Lofwyr when it comes to sheer dickishness and screwing people over. One run, he hires runners to do an extraction from the Renraku arcology in Seattle, and one of the 'runners' was left behind. Then, when the runners get the extractees out to the Tir border, they kill all but one of them (who only escaped thanks to the Tir border guards showing up to deal with the runners). Then it turns out that the whole run was a plant job, to put a timed life doppleganger into the arcology to get some data. Hiring someone to test your security and then disposing of them later is a dick move. But Lofwyr makes dick moves into an art form.
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He's like Eldrad of Ulthuan.
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If you work well for him, he treats you well. If you screw him over, and especially if you brag about it, he will get revenge. He is the only individual mention in the original Threats download; every other notice was about groups.
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If you work well for him, he treats you well. If you screw him over, and especially if you brag about it, he will get revenge. He is the only individual mention in the original Threats download; every other notice was about groups.
Is there a link to this Threats download?
Thanks! Ive bought the Street Legends supplement largely to read the Lofwyr entry, and the Hans Brackhaus (and the Nadja Daviar ones). Interesting stuff. I kind of cant help but like Lofwyr for being an unrepentant dick. Sometimes villainous sorts really just need to be rotten, no exculpatory circumstances necessary.
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If you work well for him, he treats you well. If you screw him over, and especially if you brag about it, he will get revenge. He is the only individual mention in the original Threats download; every other notice was about groups.
Is there a link to this Threats download?
Thanks! Ive bought the Street Legends supplement largely to read the Lofwyr entry, and the Hans Brackhaus (and the Nadja Daviar ones). Interesting stuff. I kind of cant help but like Lofwyr for being an unrepentant dick. Sometimes villainous sorts really just need to be rotten, no exculpatory circumstances necessary.
I like making villians like this. Sympathetic villians are cliche.
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Well I'm fairly sure Lofwyr/SK does not have the monopoly on "hiring runners to test security", pretty sure all the big corps do that.
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Sure, all the corps hire runners to test their security. But not all of them murder all the survivors afterwards.
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Ol' Goldensnout is Not a dick or even a villain, he's just a somewhat extreme survival of the fittest kind of guy, i mean he's a PLUSH TOY ( see market panic )! How evil can he really be then? Loffie the dragon most likely to have been hugged by Little children, Yay!
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If you work well for him, he treats you well. If you screw him over, and especially if you brag about it, he will get revenge. He is the only individual mention in the original Threats download; every other notice was about groups.
Is there a link to this Threats download?
Thanks! Ive bought the Street Legends supplement largely to read the Lofwyr entry, and the Hans Brackhaus (and the Nadja Daviar ones). Interesting stuff. I kind of cant help but like Lofwyr for being an unrepentant dick. Sometimes villainous sorts really just need to be rotten, no exculpatory circumstances necessary.
You don't actually expect someone on the official board of the game you're talking about to assist you in an illegal download of an element of that very game, do you? Perhaps this would be more appropriate. (http://www.ebay.com/itm/FASA-Shadowrun-Threats-supplement-7121-/300611169617?hash=item45fdd26d51:m:mRWecr3j8wCfouuif0UHihw)
And IMO, Lofwyr isn't a villian; he's intent. If you work for him, and do your work well, he's a great boss. If you fuck him over, just like the rest of us he wants revenge. It's just that having one of (if not the) largest megacorporations in the world, he is far more likely to be able to actually get it - and because he takes the long view and has a tactical and strategic IQ in the 300's, he will make sure that when he eventually does so, doing so furthers his own agenda. He is, frankly, no different than any other Great Dragon, dragon, or manager of middle- or higher grade.
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Incrociare, the Threats download Wyrm was talking about is an actual book published back in... first or second edition? Anyways, a long time ago. As such, it is not currently in print, and I don't think an official PDF release has been made, but if you scour the web, you should be able to find someone who has scanned a legitimate copy into digital form that they'd be willing to let you look at.
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Incrociare, the Threats download Wyrm was talking about is an actual book published back in... first or second edition? Anyways, a long time ago. As such, it is not currently in print, and I don't think an official PDF release has been made, but if you scour the web, you should be able to find someone who has scanned a legitimate copy into digital form that they'd be willing to let you look at.
Threats was published in 1996, during second edition. It has a five page chapter on Lofwyr, 4 of which is shadowtalk. It's fun to read but doesn't have any stats (this was the era when Great Dragons and Immortal elves weren't statted) and doesn't tell you anything about him that you can't get from his writeup in Street Legends. He owns a powerful megacorp, takes the long view, etc.
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You don't actually expect someone on the official board of the game you're talking about to assist you in an illegal download of an element of that very game, do you? Perhaps this would be more appropriate. (http://www.ebay.com/itm/FASA-Shadowrun-Threats-supplement-7121-/300611169617?hash=item45fdd26d51:m:mRWecr3j8wCfouuif0UHihw)
Apologies, I thought it was a legal download of some webrelease or something of the sort. Had no notion it was a rip off.
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What you were suggesting was; what I was suggesting was simply the info contained in the book. No offense taken, but c'mon, dude ...
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Incrociare, the Threats download Wyrm was talking about is an actual book published back in... first or second edition? Anyways, a long time ago. As such, it is not currently in print, and I don't think an official PDF release has been made, but if you scour the web, you should be able to find someone who has scanned a legitimate copy into digital form that they'd be willing to let you look at.
Threats is six bucks on DTRPG (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/3027/Shadowrun-Threats?src=slider_view&it=1).
It's not hard to check.
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Also there is Shadowrun: The Clutch of Dragons.
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And IMO, Lofwyr isn't a villian; he's intent. If you work for him, and do your work well, he's a great boss. If you fuck him over, just like the rest of us he wants revenge. It's just that having one of (if not the) largest megacorporations in the world, he is far more likely to be able to actually get it - and because he takes the long view and has a tactical and strategic IQ in the 300's, he will make sure that when he eventually does so, doing so furthers his own agenda. He is, frankly, no different than any other Great Dragon, dragon, or manager of middle- or higher grade.
And, as you'd expect from a Great Dragon (or even a Pretty-good Dragon), he has pre-planned (sometimes decades in the making) revenge waiting on standby, much like the bottles of wine in a wine enthusiast's cellar, and probably takes a similar joy in pairing an appropriate vengeance to any given offense or disappointment. Naturally, this in turn gives him an appetite...
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And IMO, Lofwyr isn't a villian; he's intent. If you work for him, and do your work well, he's a great boss. If you fuck him over, just like the rest of us he wants revenge. It's just that having one of (if not the) largest megacorporations in the world, he is far more likely to be able to actually get it - and because he takes the long view and has a tactical and strategic IQ in the 300's, he will make sure that when he eventually does so, doing so furthers his own agenda. He is, frankly, no different than any other Great Dragon, dragon, or manager of middle- or higher grade.
And, as you'd expect from a Great Dragon (or even a Pretty-good Dragon), he has pre-planned (sometimes decades in the making) revenge waiting on standby, much like the bottles of wine in a wine enthusiast's cellar, and probably takes a similar joy in pairing an appropriate vengeance to any given offense or disappointment. Naturally, this in turn gives him an appetite...
Lofwyr is a villian. From everything I have read he views metahumanity as tools. They are pawns in his game to gain power and control things. Classically I think he would be Neutral Evil. Your average whatever... to him does not count.
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And IMO, Lofwyr isn't a villian; he's intent. If you work for him, and do your work well, he's a great boss. If you fuck him over, just like the rest of us he wants revenge. It's just that having one of (if not the) largest megacorporations in the world, he is far more likely to be able to actually get it - and because he takes the long view and has a tactical and strategic IQ in the 300's, he will make sure that when he eventually does so, doing so furthers his own agenda. He is, frankly, no different than any other Great Dragon, dragon, or manager of middle- or higher grade.
And, as you'd expect from a Great Dragon (or even a Pretty-good Dragon), he has pre-planned (sometimes decades in the making) revenge waiting on standby, much like the bottles of wine in a wine enthusiast's cellar, and probably takes a similar joy in pairing an appropriate vengeance to any given offense or disappointment. Naturally, this in turn gives him an appetite...
Lofwyr is a villian. From everything I have read he views metahumanity as tools. They are pawns in his game to gain power and control things. Classically I think he would be Neutral Evil. Your average whatever... to him does not count.
And this differs from 90% of the world's upper management how?
Here's the thing: nobody but a psychopath considers themselves a villain. And people consider anyone who opposes - especially who effectively opposes - their own viewpoint and goals to be a villain. Lofwyr does view humanity as tools - just as any officer from second lieutenant to five-star general has to view their men, units to be used and, if absolutely necessary, used up in order to accomplish their goal. Lofwyr, at least, values those tools/units/individuals which are effective in his service.
And 'your average whatever' to him absolutely DOES count, if only as a consumer of goods and services he can provide, and by so providing gain wealth, power, influence, and control ... but a villain?
Only if you insist on it.
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I don't know, I mean, Lofwyr can be a MASSIVE dick, but that's usually reserved for people who really fragged up (I can't really see him eating people for minor screw ups - Great Dragon CEO infamous for micromanaging simply wouldn't have the time for that) or backstabbed him. He isn't really more villainous than any other corper. Besides, I always saw him as a more reasonable of the suits - I don't have an in-depth knowledge of the lore, but I can't really recall S-K dabbling with some particularly sick drek (cutting up technos, investing people with insect spirits, nanoinfectors, etc.) and personally, I think that, should metahumanity face some great threat (say, CFD), Lofwyr would fight against it. Not out of goodness of his heart mind you, simply because his corporation is part of his hoard, and a corporation needs a society to function. And you DO. NOT. FRAG. WITH A GREAT DRAGON'S HOARD. Especially if that Great Dragon is Lofwyr.
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Which, psycho, is exactly why freddieflatline thinks he's a Neutral Evil villain - because he's arrogant, possessive, selfish, yadda yadda yadda. When in reality, most everyone is like that to some extent or another; in a Great Dragon, though, personality aspects are magified, in part because you're playing on such a huge stage. Like I've said, he's no more a villain than any other corporate CEO, or even corporate upper management; it's all a matter of perspective.
Which is, in part, the point of Shadowrun ....
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Ol' Goldensnout is Not a dick or even a villain, he's just a somewhat extreme survival of the fittest kind of guy, i mean he's a PLUSH TOY ( see market panic )! How evil can he really be then? Loffie the dragon most likely to have been hugged by Little children, Yay!
In a story I'm working on, my main character is a 17 year old elf who has a plush Lofwyr toy that she was given for Christmas when she was 6 years old. When she squeezes it, it makes a noise that is SUPPOSED to sound like a fierce roar, but actually sounds more like Bart the Farting Hippo.
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Wait, they came out with Loffyplushies?? I thought they only had Dunkieplushies!!
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Wait, they came out with Loffyplushies?? I thought they only had Dunkieplushies!!
Case of Greed over Pride.
He hates them, but they DO sell. And that if Dunkie could put up with them.... (and the fact that Dunkie was the 'first' didn't sit well either)
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The LE version is made with actual Cloth of Gold and not the cheap knockoff stuff.
Rumours abound of a Super Limited Edition made with Cloth of Orichalcum and built to serve as a focus, though with what effect still eludes us.
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Wait, they came out with Loffyplushies?? I thought they only had Dunkieplushies!!
Case of Greed over Pride.
He hates them, but they DO sell. And that if Dunkie could put up with them.... (and the fact that Dunkie was the 'first' didn't sit well either)
Oh, Ol' Goldy is...irritated, to put it nicely when he finds out my character has a Loffyplushie. Lol She loves that blasted thing.
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I like making villians like this. Sympathetic villians are cliche.
See, I can imagine Lofwyr saying something along the lines of, "I like being this sort of villain. Sympathetic villains are pass้."
And then roasting some poor schlub in front of his (former) friends and co-workers.
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I like making villians like this. Sympathetic villians are cliche.
See, I can imagine Lofwyr saying something along the lines of, "I like being this sort of villain. Sympathetic villains are pass้."
And then roasting some poor schlub in front of his (former) friends and co-workers.
And, I can totally see him going:
"Quaterly profits are down 0.02%. Please smear these ketchup and mustard packages on yourself...."
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I like making villians like this. Sympathetic villians are cliche.
See, I can imagine Lofwyr saying something along the lines of, "I like being this sort of villain. Sympathetic villains are pass้."
And then roasting some poor schlub in front of his (former) friends and co-workers.
And, I can totally see him going:
"Quaterly profits are down 0.02%. Please smear these ketchup and mustard packages on yourself...."
Weirdly the fire suppression systems in SKHQ and several of their more secure facilities are dual loaded, one reserve tank is the standard halon/ other fire suppressor systems you would normally expect to see while the other reserve tank discharges an atomized mist of an apple honey glaze.
Make of that what you will.
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Every time I've run Lofwyr as GM, I treat him a bit like Victor Von Doom.
Arrogant, with an internally runaway ego but just intelligence and disciplined enough to not go completely mad with power.
He's the ruler the world needs, because he is a dragon, the best among all races, and the best among dragons.
The only "personal canon" change I make, is that he treats his most capable and devoted like favored pets (and everyone else as completely expendable pending failure). To him, it's not enough to just be feared and loved, they must know emphatically, philosophically, in their very soul he is sovereign.
He doesn't discern between Shadowrunners and wage slaves, because everyone who isn't his enemy is his tool in waiting...and even a few of his enemies are his unwitting tools and accomplices.
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One run, he hires runners to do an extraction from the Renraku arcology in Seattle, and one of the 'runners' was left behind. Then, when the runners get the extractees out to the Tir border, they kill all but one of them (who only escaped thanks to the Tir border guards showing up to deal with the runners). Then it turns out that the whole run was a plant job, to put a timed life doppleganger into the arcology to get some data.
That was Haeslich from Never deal with a dragon, not Lofwyr.
Most examples of Lofwyr I remember are helping the protagonist as a dragon-ex-machina - that dragon has his claws in everything -, see Sam Verner,Skater or Talon in the novels, the protagonits of the Shadowrun Returns game, etc etc.
Even his story in Threats is written more like 'don't try to frag him over AND brag about it or you'll regret it" (he'll even use your death to his advantage), not "he's the devil of shadowrun! run!"
He's very far from the pact-twisting soul-stealing evil devil he's made out to be.
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Lofwyr see everyone and everything as a resources to be used, if an employee fail him he will most likely just have him put down the management line to a place where he won't fail another time. Resources are limited as long as it can be used he will use it. But if he find no use for you at all... Then you are in trouble
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His purpose is not to be a dick. It is to be scary and make players justifiably paranoid.
And the reason he is scary is not because he is an immortal that can swallow you in a single gulp and take a tactical nuke to the face without blinking. The immortal dragon stuff is just there to keep players from trying to casually assassinate him (and because it's friging cool). The reason he is scary is because of his mental faculties that allow him to micromanage hundreds if not thousands of plots at any given time. He is smart, he is ruthless, and he is always five steps ahead of you. No matter what you do, he has a plan that lets him use your actions to his advantage. Because he is just that smart.
In he novels it's not that people set out to screw him over.
They typically cross him by accident, and then try to make it up to him to avoid being eaten, during which they usually screw themselves over in the process before finally ending up being doublecrossed.
So of course it is the obligation of the GM to not let the players pull one off on that kind of antagonist unless there is an epic amount of legwork behind it, and then it should be the kind of thing they talk about for years afterwards. And even then there should always be some tiny doubt in the back of their minds that maybe, just maybe, Lofwyr is lying on a beach somewhere sipping Pina Coladas and contemplating the recent growth of his portfolio, because everything went exactly as planned...