[taranion]

Hi,

"Firing Squad" p.97 lists Karma and instruction costs for martial arts styles and techniques.
Is it Karma at character generation and Nuyen during career, always both or some other combination?

The german rules have a clarification that instruction cost does not apply during generation - but also don't mention if Karma needs to be paid in career mode.

Currently Genesis requires you to always pay both, but I guess that is wrong.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

I think that the intent is that you don't pay nuyen during chargen.  However, the language that talks about paying in karma "much as qualities are" and might be used to argue for an exception during chargen is not being specifically restricted to chargen.

So, the RAW does look like there's an inherent nuyen cost with no exception granted for chargen.

[taranion]

Meaning that during character advancement you pay Nuyen plus Karma?

So:

	CharGen		Advancement
RAW	Karma + Nuyen	|	Karma + Nuyen
RAI	Karma	|	Nuyen

Did I get that right?

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

You always pay Karma. During chargen and after.

The (probable) intent is that you pay karma+nuyen only during post-chargen.  However the rules don't do a good job of communicating whether you pay nuyen as well as karma during chargen.  The rules don't mention it at all, but the chart does.  So... meh.

Genesis doesn't force nuyen training costs for advancing skills, does it? If I may: I'd suggest treating martial arts as a karma-only forced expense, and letting players manually add a nuyen training expense.  I mean, the GM might say the character's sensei gives them a price break for whatever reason, anyway.  Or hikes the price...

[RickDeckard]

You always pay Karma. During chargen and after.

The (probable) intent is that you pay karma+nuyen only during post-chargen.  However the rules don't do a good job of communicating whether you pay nuyen as well as karma during chargen.  The rules don't mention it at all, but the chart does.  So... meh.

Genesis doesn't force nuyen training costs for advancing skills, does it? If I may: I'd suggest treating martial arts as a karma-only forced expense, and letting players manually add a nuyen training expense.  I mean, the GM might say the character's sensei gives them a price break for whatever reason, anyway.  Or hikes the price...

At least it only takes 2 weeks to learn a martial art, so Sensei will probably want payment up front. Also, what the hell have I been doing spending 30 years on learning martial arts?

[Shinobi Killfist]

You always pay Karma. During chargen and after.

The (probable) intent is that you pay karma+nuyen only during post-chargen.  However the rules don't do a good job of communicating whether you pay nuyen as well as karma during chargen.  The rules don't mention it at all, but the chart does.  So... meh.

Genesis doesn't force nuyen training costs for advancing skills, does it? If I may: I'd suggest treating martial arts as a karma-only forced expense, and letting players manually add a nuyen training expense.  I mean, the GM might say the character's sensei gives them a price break for whatever reason, anyway.  Or hikes the price...

At least it only takes 2 weeks to learn a martial art, so Sensei will probably want payment up front. Also, what the hell have I been doing spending 30 years on learning martial arts?

Well if you have a 5 in close combat you probably have put years into martial arts training as that is what it is I can;t remember what a 5 is supposed to represent but I think its like professional so a black belt at a non mcdojo, all the martial art perk is doing is saying you perfected a specific technique.