NEWS

Edge Boosts and >7 Edge

  • 6 Replies
  • 733 Views

MercilessMing

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 362
« on: <10-11-21/1148:42> »
The CRB established a maximum of 7 edge in a character's edge pool, and that the same edge boost can be repeated.
With a pool of 7, you can repeat any 1, 2, or 3 pt. edge boost due to the nature of the cap.
Here's the list of things you can repeat:
Reroll 1 die
Add 3 to init score
+1 to a die roll
Give an ally 1 edge
Negate 1 edge of an opponent
Buy 1 hit
Heal 1 box of stun

Here's things you can't repeat:
Add Edge to your dice pool
Heal 1 box of physical
Reroll fails
Count 2s as glitches
Create special effect


Aside from heal 1 phsyical, I can see why the authors wouldn't want these repeated. 
But due to the Chase Pool in Double Clutch, we can sometimes repeat these now.
The M-Toc is also a method of storing additional Edge, but it's used by spending a minor to transfer banked edge to your personal pool.  It's not treated as an extension of your personal pool like the Chase Pool is.

It's a very unique situation, only allowable on Piloting/Athletics tests during Chases, but it seems like you could reroll your fails twice or add Edge to your dice pool twice in that situation. 

Also, let's mention Double Down. 
Quote from: Double Clutch
Add up to three wild dice to a test, one for every 2 Edge spent. . . .  Cost: 2, 4, or 6 Edge
The author doesn't seem too familiar with how Edge boosts work.  The RAI seems to be a simple repeatable 2pt Edge boost, but the author didn't know/didn't remember that edge boosts are inherently repeatable.  There may have been a cap of 3 intended (why?) ... but because boosts are inherently repeatable, what they actually made was a boost with variable cost that can be repeated, so someone with 8 edge could do the 4pt version twice, and get around the 3x limit anyway.  It's pedantic rules lawyering but people like taranion have to program systems around this stuff so it helps when the authors can get it right.

Edit: Aaaaaand I just realized you can already repeat 4pt boosts if you can get a discount that applies to the situation you're using it in. Lol.
« Last Edit: <10-11-21/1150:49> by MercilessMing »

Xenon

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 6286
« Reply #1 on: <10-11-21/1431:36> »
You can repeat them if you have enough edge points to spend (but you typically max out at 7 edge points so you typically can't take them twice). And some boosts doesn't make sense to pick twice (like counting 2's towards glitch).

But beyond that there isn't really anything that prevent you from picking the boost twice.


Also, let's mention Double Down. 
Quote from: Double Clutch
Add up to three wild dice to a test, one for every 2 Edge spent. . . .  Cost: 2, 4, or 6 Edge
It seem to cap out at 3 wild dice at 6+ edge.

But for added consistency (and if you really think it will ever come up) I am sure you are allowed to house rule that it cap out at 4 wild dice at 8+ edge points spent.


Edit: Aaaaaand I just realized you can already repeat 4pt boosts if you can get a discount that applies to the situation you're using it in.
Jupp.

But is this really an issue? Not so sure about that actually.....


Something that was debated (but don't remember if we ever came to any conclusion) was if such discount reduce the cost of the edge boost and apply for each instance of the edge boost with a minimum cost of 1 edge point per edge boost or if it only apply once for the whole edge point expenditure with a minimum cost of 1 edge point for the entire expenditure.




House rule that might be relevant to this topic:

Humans and Edge
...you can save Edge across multiple combat rounds to build up a maximum of 7 Edge points (or 8 for Humans) for that big play!

MercilessMing

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 362
« Reply #2 on: <10-11-21/1500:08> »
The only issue I can think of is if some edge boosts were not intended to be repeatable, and instead of specifying that edge boost x couldn't be repeated, they just put it behind the 4+ edge threshold and called it a day. 
Quote
Something that was debated (but don't remember if we ever came to any conclusion) was if such discount reduce the cost of the edge boost and apply for each instance of the edge boost with a minimum cost of 1 edge point per edge boost or if it only apply once for the whole edge point expenditure with a minimum cost of 1 edge point for the entire expenditure.
  I don't think there was an official resolution but there was consensus that applying the discount to the total was the best choice.

Hobbes

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 2972
« Reply #3 on: <10-11-21/1752:33> »

Something that was debated (but don't remember if we ever came to any conclusion) was if such discount reduce the cost of the edge boost and apply for each instance of the edge boost with a minimum cost of 1 edge point per edge boost or if it only apply once for the whole edge point expenditure with a minimum cost of 1 edge point for the entire expenditure.


I've always read the cost reductions RAI is to only work once per Edge expenditure.   Especially now with Signature Maneuver out of Double Clutch.  I'm sure the RAW argument could be made either way though.     

Finstersang

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 723
« Reply #4 on: <10-12-21/0745:54> »
Yup, that definetely warrants a clarification now. I´ve always been playing under the assumption that the discount is for the combined expenditure, but I´ve found nothing to confirm or deny this.

If the discount really is for each individual boost, adding +1 to a single roll suddenly becomes a really powerfull option. But that doesn´t really mean it would be "broken" or anything, you´d still need a good amount of 4s to make use of this interpretation. 


Side note regarding Signature Maneuver: As a houserule, I already allow the combination of Edge boosts and Edge Actions because I don´t like these arbitrary limitations. Instead, Signature Maneuver adds a discount on the combined Edge cost. Either way, really nice idea to let players build their own "Special Moves"!     
« Last Edit: <10-12-21/0751:55> by Finstersang »
"Firing Line adds a ton of Perks that modify Attack and Defense ratings"

"Cool, does this mean that the whole AR/DR comparison has a bigger impact now?"

"Haha No :D"

MercilessMing

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 362
« Reply #5 on: <10-12-21/1000:12> »
YES.  Signature Maneuver was for sure a bright spot in the qualities for our group too. 

Something I just noticed reviewing Driving Styles is that they specify the edge discount for Double Down.  Luckily, the discount is expressed as 50% and not -1 per use, so it still fits with an interpretation of applying discounts to the total expenditure.  However, it introduces the need to clarify whether the percentage discount comes before or after -1 discounts >_<   It should probably be percentage before subtraction, but it's a question that will come up.

Michael Chandra

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 9803
  • Question-slicing ninja
« Reply #6 on: <10-14-21/1352:35> »
I always read it as 'you can do the same thing X times at the same time', not 'you can do the same thing again and again'. It says multiplied, not repeated. So it's not 'reroll your own failures twice', or 'reroll 1 die, if still wrong, repeat', as far as I can tell.

That said, when you have both percentual and absolute discounts, describe which comes first please. -,-
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!