NEWS

How does one prevent someone from calling for help

  • 28 Replies
  • 5157 Views

Lucean

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1159
« Reply #15 on: <07-07-14/0535:03> »
Injection may not be fast enough, since they have the rest of the combat turn to react. So if they have initiative 11+, they might get a chance to act, since surprise only deducts 10 from initiative and immediate toxins kick in at the end of the turn.

Insaniac99

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 450
« Reply #16 on: <07-07-14/0548:31> »
I've always been a fan of the injection dart rifle or knockout gas grenade. they can't call for help if they're asleep!
Don't they, by RAW, have 1 combat round, or roughly 3 seconds, to do stuff before they first try to resist the drug?  and that's assuming it KOs them in the first shot....
Check out my all purpose Shadowrun Die roller and Probability generator: http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=13241.0

horngeek

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 34
« Reply #17 on: <07-07-14/0557:53> »
<.<
>.>

Well... my immediate, snarky response was 'a gag always works'.  :P

I get the concern here, I'd say there should be a Noise rating which essentially represents a dead zone to the Matrix. 

Csjarrat

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 5108
  • UK based GM + player
« Reply #18 on: <07-07-14/0622:54> »
I've always been a fan of the injection dart rifle or knockout gas grenade. they can't call for help if they're asleep!
Don't they, by RAW, have 1 combat round, or roughly 3 seconds, to do stuff before they first try to resist the drug?  and that's assuming it KOs them in the first shot....
It'll be an issue if they're cybered up or have lots of other initiative mods helping them out. Surprise and such should put a normal civvie out of ini in most cases
Speech
Thought
Matrix
Astral
Mentor

Lucean

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1159
« Reply #19 on: <07-07-14/0650:08> »
I don't know, but even with average INT and REA you'll get 11+ initiative 33% of the time. So you have to back up the injection with something else. And if you can give this backup, do you need the injection at all?

Csjarrat

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 5108
  • UK based GM + player
« Reply #20 on: <07-07-14/1026:03> »
I don't know, but even with average INT and REA you'll get 11+ initiative 33% of the time. So you have to back up the injection with something else. And if you can give this backup, do you need the injection at all?
full auto burst of gel rounds would work well. airbursting neurostun works fine too. different horses for different courses!
Speech
Thought
Matrix
Astral
Mentor

Namikaze

  • *
  • Freelancer Ltd
  • Prime Runner
  • **
  • Posts: 4068
  • I'm a Ma'fan of Shadowrun!
« Reply #21 on: <07-07-14/1041:05> »
I've always been a fan of the injection dart rifle or knockout gas grenade. they can't call for help if they're asleep!
Don't they, by RAW, have 1 combat round, or roughly 3 seconds, to do stuff before they first try to resist the drug?  and that's assuming it KOs them in the first shot....

Nope - a toxin with an Immediate vector, like Narcoject, takes effect instantly.
Feel free to keep any karma you earned illicitly, it's on us.

Quote from: Stephen Covey
Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.

ZeConster

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2557
« Reply #22 on: <07-07-14/1057:43> »
I've always been a fan of the injection dart rifle or knockout gas grenade. they can't call for help if they're asleep!
Don't they, by RAW, have 1 combat round, or roughly 3 seconds, to do stuff before they first try to resist the drug?  and that's assuming it KOs them in the first shot....
Nope - a toxin with an Immediate vector, like Narcoject, takes effect instantly.
Not according to the SR5 corebook:
Quote
Immediate means the Effect is applied at the end of the same Combat Turn in which the victim is exposed.
Which is why you'd have to surprise them, so their first Initiative Pass is wasted, and hope they don't get a second one before the Combat Turn ends.

Namikaze

  • *
  • Freelancer Ltd
  • Prime Runner
  • **
  • Posts: 4068
  • I'm a Ma'fan of Shadowrun!
« Reply #23 on: <07-07-14/1130:35> »
Quote
Immediate means the Effect is applied at the end of the same Combat Turn in which the victim is exposed.
Which is why you'd have to surprise them, so their first Initiative Pass is wasted, and hope they don't get a second one before the Combat Turn ends.

Touche, sir!
Feel free to keep any karma you earned illicitly, it's on us.

Quote from: Stephen Covey
Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.

Mirikon

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 8986
  • "Everybody lies." --House
« Reply #24 on: <07-07-14/1257:58> »
Quote
Immediate means the Effect is applied at the end of the same Combat Turn in which the victim is exposed.
Which is why you'd have to surprise them, so their first Initiative Pass is wasted, and hope they don't get a second one before the Combat Turn ends.
And why are you surprising them with only one attack? Multiple attackers, multiple weapons. Don't rely on drugs if you don't want them calling for help unless you disguise them in something so they don't know they've been drugged until it is too late. Surprise tests are your friend. Multiple attackers with SnS or gel rounds against a surprised foe will drop most anyone.
Greataxe - Apply directly to source of problem, repeat as needed.

My Characters

Xenon

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 6467
« Reply #25 on: <07-07-14/1301:49> »
being surprised does actually not mean you lose your action phase in the first initiative pass (unless you have an initiative score of 10 or lower or if you critically glitched your surprise test), it just reduce your initiative score by 10 (and with a reduced initiative score of 10 that might mean that everyone else get to act before you in the first initiative pass, but if you have a really high initiative score you can be surprised but still go first in the first initiative pass).

ZeConster

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2557
« Reply #26 on: <07-07-14/1305:59> »
Quote
Immediate means the Effect is applied at the end of the same Combat Turn in which the victim is exposed.
Which is why you'd have to surprise them, so their first Initiative Pass is wasted, and hope they don't get a second one before the Combat Turn ends.
And why are you surprising them with only one attack? Multiple attackers, multiple weapons. Don't rely on drugs if you don't want them calling for help unless you disguise them in something so they don't know they've been drugged until it is too late. Surprise tests are your friend. Multiple attackers with SnS or gel rounds against a surprised foe will drop most anyone.
That's basically my point, yes: there's a lot of variables that have to be just right if you rely on a toxin to take someone out before they can call for help. Which is why, like you said, stacking on Stun damage in a surprise round is a more reliable strategy.

Csjarrat

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 5108
  • UK based GM + player
« Reply #27 on: <07-07-14/1310:40> »
lets be fair though, unless you're extracting someone who's really really up to date on kidnapping techniques and procedures, when the tranq dart hits them, their first reaction is gonna be "ow! what the fuck?"
By the time they've had a look at the dart and figured out what's going on, it'll be sleepy sleepy time.
Who would realistically feel what could easily be a nasty insect bite and immediately call a swat team in?
Speech
Thought
Matrix
Astral
Mentor

ZeConster

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2557
« Reply #28 on: <07-07-14/1333:46> »
Who would realistically feel what could easily be a nasty insect bite and immediately call a swat team in?
Security personnel that you're trying to take out quietly, and paranoid kidnapping targets? In fact, I just remembered a third kidnapping run, where we took out a head of security en route to his job so our magician could impersonate him to gain access to an apartment building, and he'd fall in both categories.
Plus it's only a Simple Action to investigate the unexpected sting.