[Reiper]

Just a quick question (or more confirmation) on dual natured beings:

Dual natured Type:   P   •   Action:   Auto   •   Range:   Self   •   Duration:   Always   
A   critter   that   is   dual-natured   is   active   in   the   astral   plane   and   can   affect   astral   beings   as   well   as   physical   ones.   Dual-na- tured   creatures   have   the   ability   to   perceive   and   interact   with   the   astral   plane   in   the   same   way   as   characters   using   astral   per- ception   (see   Astral Perception,   p.   183.)   

Does this mean they can be attacked astrally at any time? Pretty much making it where a dual natured, non magic user is pretty much SOL against a mage in astral space if they decide to attack you?

[mtfeeney = Baron]

Yes, you can be attacked astrally at any time.  That would include magicians using astral perception, anyone astral projecting, spirits, other dual-natured things that are viewing the astral plane.

[Necrogigas]

Pretty much every dual-natured being has some form of natural weapon, and that weapon is considered magical. So dual-natured non-mages have at least some means of retaliation, at least if they can chase down the astral form attacking them.

[Reiper]

Pretty much every dual-natured being has some form of natural weapon, and that weapon is considered magical. So dual-natured non-mages have at least some means of retaliation, at least if they can chase down the astral form attacking them.

Unfortunately a mage could just hover just out of reach and kill him.

Thanks for confirming my thoughts on it guys 

[GiraffeShaman]

Yes, it sucks to be a ghoul, if you didn't already assume that.

[Mithlas]

Unfortunately a mage could just hover just out of reach and kill him.

Mages can cast spells while astrally projecting?

[JoeNapalm]

Yes, it sucks to be a ghoul, if you didn't already assume that.

Plus, you don't get invited to any of the cool kid's parties, anymore.

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

[RHat]

Unfortunately a mage could just hover just out of reach and kill him.

Mages can cast spells while astrally projecting?

Mana spells, yeah.  When cast from the astral, however, they can only affect things on the astral.  Which does mean you can bomb the hell out of dual-natured creatures without harming physical-only beings right beside them.

[Falconer]

Rieper... depends on the area....

Ghouls aren't normally caught out in the open.   If they're lairing up in basements and the like... then any mage attacking them very well needs to be within the reach of their other feature, the natural weapon power.   If they're in a building once again... there's very few areas in an apartment building which can't be reached in a few steps to claw the mage sticking his astral form through the wall.  Similarly it's almost impossible to astrally project yourself through the earth... so things like underground sewars and caverns provide some extra protection.


You also get the spectrum of ghouls...
ferals aren't going to do much... they just are... unless someone else does something to them.

The ones who keep their minds... might just burn out their magic and get cybereyes right away eliminating the dual-natured problem and cataract blindness in one fell swoop.

The more magical among them can simply use 'masking' to hide their presence and appear mundane.  They're still present on the astral and could be attacked from the astral... it's just that it's not obvious that they're on the astral.   Also those ones can also setup wards to deter astral intrusions.

Hope that helps give you some tools.

[Reiper]

The question is more related towards Shapeshifters rather than Ghouls.

They can't use cyber eyes to get rid of it since 'ware only works in animal form. Anyone have any ideas on how to protect a non-magical shifter from an astral mage?

[mtfeeney = Baron]

You can cyber their animal form, reducing the magic to 0, but then you can't shape shift... I think astral perception is your big problem.  It's incredibly hard to fight what you can't see.  Be a magician, that's my advice...  or maybe a mystic adept/regular adept and astral perception, if you don't want spells.

[Reiper]

You can cyber their animal form, reducing the magic to 0, but then you can't shape shift... I think astral perception is your big problem.  It's incredibly hard to fight what you can't see.  Be a magician, that's my advice...  or maybe a mystic adept/regular adept and astral perception, if you don't want spells.

Thats a big weakness in shifters.

They are almost forced to become a mage no matter what if they don't want to be astrally kited. Even an adept wouldn't stand a chance against a mage kiting them in most situations since the adept is still bound by physics while an astrally projecting mage isn't.

Dual natured beings automatically have astral perception, and if I read it right they are always perceiving both worlds (without the penalty). If I did run one I'd see if the GM wouldn't give me a little slack and houserule that aspect though.

[GiraffeShaman]

They can't use cyber eyes to get rid of it since 'ware only works in animal form. Anyone have any ideas on how to protect a non-magical shifter from an astral mage?

Depends on where you need the protection. At home? On a run? At the bar?

A particularly good trick for a shifter (And cheap nuyen wise) is to hide among a biomass. A crowd, trees, particularly jungle, water.

[Falconer]

Reiper:
That's a far harder one... because if the shaper loses it's magic... it simply becomes an animal and loses it's ability to shift.  So it's a lot more than need delta and only works in animal form...

Learn to mask, and learn how to 'hide' in a crowd... look at the astral visibility penalties.   If you're one aura among many it's much harder to spot you.  (those many could be tons of plants such as a jungle... or a crowd of people during rush hour).  Keep something with an astral shadow like an umbrella close at hand to block LOS when you can.  And try and keep your routes close to places you can get to cover.   Or use the cover other people provide... such as pressing through a ward on a shop... and putting it between you and him.   If you're just shopping while you'll setoff the magic alarm you haven't done anything wrong.


The only advice I can give you is to make sure fluffy has adept or magician... so it can learn and use masking.  So people can't spot it right away.   Masking is the only way you can try and sneak through active wards as well.   Otherwise you'll set off and need to press your way through wards as well.


It's not like shifters don't get a lot of other really nice benefits like 'regeneration' and better than human stat-lines to make up for the dual-natured weakness.   That's part of the whole 'package deal' you don't only get the good parts you want.  So I'd recommend against you not trying to 'cheat' the system on that aspect.   There are ways to fight it such as not being out in the open... or hopping inside a car/van.    Any enclosed space where the mage has to be within arms reach to see you astrally.   And you can block astral LOS with things like an umbrellas astral shadow.

One other aspect that many people miss... is taking shaper and the not always quite human sidebar..  they don't add the attributes.  they add the metatype abilities (like the ork's low-light vision, or the trolls thermographic, reach, and dermal plating.

[mtfeeney = Baron]

Sorry about the previous post, I didn't realize dual-natured automatically gave you astral perception(in an enhanced version, even!).  My question is... how do you appear to other things viewing the astral plane?  Do you just look like a strong aura?  Are you obviously an astral planar being?  Is hiding among a group good enough, or would that just look like a person trying to hide in a group of blurry colored auras?  Would he appear to be an animal in his astral form, or would it mimic whatever form he was in currently in the real world?