[Herr Brackhaus]

Wired Oni Face/Sam is totally doable, and gives you a great excuse to speak Japanese and English, maybe even more.

[Marcus]

First don't be concerned about the fact that the party has other elves in it. In fact it makes more sense that an elf face would join a team with other elves on it. You can take some qualities that make that even more appropriate.

Next I wouldn't wander into MYSAD, yes it offers lots of potential, but you already have a mage, and karma gen is already going to complicate generation, to make an effective Karma Gen you need to be very focused.

Troll and Orc facing is more complicated. Yes there are folks who can make it work, but until your more comfortable with the role I would stick to the classic archtype as much as possible.

Don't worry about the combat thing, your party already has it on lock clearly, as long as your character is a solid melee combatant, (18ish dice in stun baton, 20 dice in soak,  init in range you already had, and 9S AP -5 stun baton that's also a weapon focus) You will be decent should any melee ever happen. A stun baton is also not a weapon that going to draw a lot of attention, cops don't arrest business men for carrying a tasers. It's non-lethal, it's not noisy, and it doesn't draw blood, so even if you use it in a public place its not a huge concern. If you want to become more effective in combat there lots of way to do it, starting with the Charge action, and continuing with Martial Arts.

The ol'mono-whip method is solid, but it also risky. Your only one glitch away from losing a limb. It is more effective then the stun baton, but it's not that much more effective, and it's main advantage is also a disadvantage from the face stand point. A good hit with a mono-whip is almost always lethal. A good hit with a stun baton, is just a target that out is cold. Killing folks is messy brings consequences, knocking folks out is professional, no one dies, no muss no fuss.

I'll dig out my karma gen spread sheet later on and see what I can do.
 

[Whiskeyjack]

You're not going to glitch on that many dice, and the wireless bonus is also a thing.

[Marcus]

You're not going to glitch on that many dice, and the wireless bonus is also a thing.

Probably not, the odds a very much against it in the 16+ die range.

[SmilinIrish]

To counterpoint some of the suggestions...

If you are leaning towards face, consider a charisma tradition mage.  The choice of spells is so broad, you can do so many utility things.  It is also good to realize that you can teamwork summon.  With two of you to summon, you could get some really nasty spirits.   Does your other mage have ritual spellcasting?  Having another mage to do rituals with could be great. If you don't go mys ad, you can join the existing mage when he does astral projecting.  Your team gets along well without a face currently, so it isn't like you need all the social skills.  Take Con (fast talk) and Negotiate (diplomacy) and talk your way through some situations.  That plus the Influence spell can pull of some great stuff. 

I would prioritize skills over stats.  An interesting character concept could be an older man (my current build is such) with lower physical stats.  Take clout spell with a fetish and you could easily cast F9 clout spells and reliably take no drain.  you would be doing 9 base DV plus net hits with an AP of -9.  All the rest of the spells could be utility and buff/debuff.  If you don't want to play an elf, put your Charisma at 5, take focused concentration 5 (although with karma gen maybe not so hard to take it at 6).  This lets you sustain a F5 increase Charisma spell with no penalty and you'll be a human with a 9 Cha.  This should put you at 14 or 15 dice to soak drain. 

I play an intuition mage this way.  Pretty fun.  If your team is handling combat just fine, don't stress about matching them in that.  Go support, lots of good contacts, knowledge skills and Detection spells.  Have your character always finding out that info no one else can get hands on. 

Spellcasting 6 (+ specialization matching mentor), Summoning (+2 spirits of man), Binding (+2 spirits of man), Perception, Assensing, Con, Negotiation, Sneak.  token ranks in arcana and etiquette. 

Extended Detect life and Extended Spatial Sense allows you to map the area (quite a bit of it) plus see where the guards are. 

levitate and improved invisibility are a no brainer, Detect thoughts, Mind Probe (if conscience allows),Influence, Physical Mask, Astral Window, Mana WIndow, Alter Memory, there is just so much you can do.


I've never messed with Karma gen, so I don't know how to build this, sorry.  Just thought I'd give some input on the concept

[adzling]

So I read this thread and felt bad for you.
I mean does the decker have good agility and gymnastics along with his good sneaking skill?
If not the GM is letting him off easy.

Regardless I think an adept face, possibly cybered, is a good choice.

Why?

It's a role your party desperately needs + you get access to Commanding Voice (think Jedi mind-tricks a la "these are not the droids you are looking for") which can easily put you into the drivers seat in many encounters ("drop your weapons!").

Here's a potential build below.
It focusses on being able to adopt the appearance of almost anyone almost instantly.
Who needs to sneak when you can just BE the mark?
Starts off with a monofilament weapon focus (should be fun for killing spirits and such).
Can do most of the sneaky face stuff pretty well.
Lots of room to grow with JoAT keeping costs low to raise those skills.
Bumping edge to 2 will only cost you 10 karma.

Considering where your other team-mates are at I would ask for a karma and nuyen bonus to build the character up a bit and bring it more up to the power level of the rest of the table.

Cybered Elf Face
METATYPE: ELF
B 2, A 6/8, R 5/6, S 3, W 3, L 3, I 5, C 8, ESS 5.1, EDG 1, M 4
Condition Monitor (P/S): 9 / 10
Armor: 14
Limits: Physical 5, Mental 5, Social 13
Physical Initiative: 10/11+2D6
Active Skills: Con (Fast Talking +2) 2, Disguise 1, Etiquette 1, Exotic Melee Weapon: Monofilament Whip 2 (3), Gymnastics 1, Impersonation 2, Leadership 4, Negotiation (Bargaining +2) 2, Perception 1, Pistols (Semi-Automatics +2) 3, Sneaking (Urban +2) 3
Knowledge Skills: small unit tactics (Urban +2) 6, Street knowledge: Seattle 1
Languages: English N, Japanese 4, Sperethiel 4
Metatype Abilities: Enhanced Senses: Low-Light Vision
Qualities: Adept, Agile Defender, Biocompatibility (Bioware), Jack of All Trades, Master of None, Mentor Spirit: Raven, Prototype Transhuman: Wanted, SINner (Corporate SIN): Renraku, Wanted
Adept Powers: Authoritative Tone (2), Combat Sense (1), Commanding Voice (12dicepool vs.  Willpower + Intuition), Facial Sculpt (4 hours) (1) (6dicepool), Keratin Control, Linguistics (8dicepool (Varies)), Melanin Control (5h), Traceless Walk, Voice Control (1) (14dicepool[5] vs. Voice rec. x 2 or PER + INT)
Augmentations:
   Fingertip Compartment
   Muscle Toner (Used) (2)
   Reflex Recorder (Used): Exotic Melee Weapon
   Smartlink (Used)
   Synaptic Booster (Prototype) (1) w/ Prototype Transhuman
   Tailored Pheromones (Prototype) (3) w/ Prototype Transhuman
Gear:
   Armor Jacket
   Ballistic Mask (Customized)
   Concealable Holster
   Contacts (3) w/ Flare Compensation, Image Link, Vision Enhancement (1)
   Cram
   Ear buds (3) w/ Audio Enhancement (2), Select Sound Filter (1)
   Matrix Systems GridGopher
   Micro-Tranceiver
   Novacoke
   Plastic Restraints x10
   Tool Kit, Disguise
Weapons:
   Savalette Guardian [Heavy Pistol, Acc 8, DV 8P, AP -5, SA/BF, RC 4, 12 (c)] w/ (50x) APDS, Flashlight, Low-Light, Gas-Vent System (3), Personalized Grip, Smartgun System, Internal
   Monofilament Whip Weapon Focus (1) [Exotic Melee Weapon, Reach 2, Acc 7, DV 12P, AP -8] w/ Weapon Focus (1)
Starting ¥: 955 + (1D6 × 20)¥

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[anchoress]

Oh my goodness... guys, thank you all so much for your replies and character builds! I will hopp right now into chummer and create some chars according to your ideas. Will be back here, if i have some questions.
Really, thank you for giving me back this feeling of excitement i had when i was building my first character 

Like i said: will be back later and edit some questions in here.

[Tarislar]

Okay, so, I took a look at  your character breakdown in the link.
Going from Infiltration Adept to Combat Face Adept
It takes you away from Stealth Insertion, but leaves you a few sneaky skills, and puts you squarely in the Face + Combat field.
I think it will be a bit meaner in combat while filling a role that the team is lacking and give you something to do & shine at it.

My... thanks for all the effort, mate! I hope you don't kill me saying this, but it would feel awkward for me to just make a different version of my old character. Shadowrun is a world full of fluff. If i have the possibility to pick another character, i feel like i'm missing an opportunity sticking to similar skills (like aikido specialization and such) and race. Should have given more information, i know - was a bit spontaneous for me as well to think about a face. And it was 4a.m., so... sorry   

No Worries.
I was basing my response partially off your other thread where you said things like Human + Automatics + Reflexes-3 all had to stay.
It seemed like on that page that you were looking for a tweak v/s a full rebuild.
Doing the Swap thing made it easy for me since I didn't want to recalculate all the Karma for every level & it made it easy to give you an example of where you could go.
If your able to build from the ground up then by all means, move more stuff around.

Strong points to focus on, IMHO...

Bod-3, Agi-5+, Rea-4+, Str-2-, 
Wil-3/5, Log-4-, Itn-4+, Cha-5+
Mag-6, Edg-3+, Ess-5+

Heavy Skills:  Con, Negotiation, Etiquette, Guntype, Perception
Medium Skills:  Sneaking, Impersonation, Disguise,
Light Skills:  Driving, Computer, Assensing, Escape, Palming, Running, Unarmed

Positive Qualities:  Jack of All Trades,  Mentor Spirit,  Trustfund, 1st Impression

Some of my favorite Adept Powers of the Facey, Sneaky, Shooty types.
Astral Perception
Authoritative Tone
Combat Sense
Facial Sculpt
Heightened Concern
Improved Reflexes
Linguistics
Magic Sense
Melanin Control
Motion Sense
Quickness Boost-1
Traceless Walk


Adepts really can make for a great "combo" character of the Face/Stealth/Combat type.



Someone, on these boards had some GREAT advise one time & I always consider it when looking at character builds. 
Here is a bit of a paraphrase

Shadowruns consist of 3 activities/stages & you want to be able to do SOMETHING for every one of those to avoid boredom & be happy w/ your play time.

1.  Legwork - Everyone should be able to contribute to the information gathering phase... Contact Contact Contacts .... they are for every class.
2.  Combat  -  Everyone needs to be able to shoot & shoot well with at least 1 decent weapon
3.  Support/Other  -  Kind of a catch all, but you want some other ability to do when your not doing the above 2.   Help w/ Recon,  Stealth Insertion, B&E,  Medical Treatment,  Astral Recon,  Gear Acquisition,  Buffing, Leadership, Demolitions, something for when you are not on the phone or actively shooting.

Now, as a Samurai you might do several things in Combat, or as a Mage you might do several things in Support, & as a Face you might have many ways to do legwork, but everyone should be able to do at least 1 thing for the 3 categories above.

For example, I made a Troll Cybertank that had ZERO face ability,  but,  for Legwork he had a couple different contacts w/ 5-7 points in each.
Sure it cost me some Karma at Char-Gen but who cares, those are permanent assets.
For support he was pretty stealthy as well & could sneak, well, as much as an 8ft tall troll can ever sneak,  he could sneak.



Let us know what concept you finally decide on.

[Rooks]

Except when you have a Face, then you dont need any contacts apparently

[Whiskeyjack]

You can do plenty in the legwork phase without contacts.

Riggers do drone surveillance in that phase, for example. Usually after someone's contact gives info or the decker steals it from the Matrix.

[anchoress]

Allright, i meshed your ideas together in one build, and tried to come up with something viable. It is a Mysad now, casting R6 Increased CHA and storing it via Focused Concentration for a drain resistance of 15 and a DP of 16 (18) in the common social skills. Build the character with 950 karma (according to the level of the other team members) and a nuyen pool of 100k. I have 70 karma and roughly 90k NY left. What is left to buy with it:
- secondary combat ability (never rely only on magic)
- knowledge skills
- contacts
+ negative qualities? (didn't had a good idea yet)
- SINs!
- spellcasting/sustaining/power foci?
- secondary combat gear
- commlink + software

== Info ==
Human                          Movement: 6/12
                                       Composure: 11
Street Cred: 0               Judge Intentions: 11
Notoriety: 0                    Lift/Carry: 5 (30 kg/20 kg)
Public Awareness: 0   Memory: 8
Karma: 70                      Nuyen: 89900
Age:                                 Skin:
Eyes:                               Hair:

== Attributes ==
BOD: 3                         CHA: 6
AGI: 3                            INT: 5
REA: 3                          LOG: 3
STR: 2                          WIL: 5
EDG: 2                          MAG: 6

== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 6                                Initiative:           8 + 1d6
Physical Damage Track: 10   Rigger Init:          8 + 1d6
Stun Damage Track: 11          Astral Init:          10 + 2d6
Physical: 4                                 Matrix AR Init:       8 + 1d6
Mental: 6                                    Matrix VR Cold Init:  5 + DP + 3d6
Social: 9                                    Matrix VR Hot Init:   5 + DP + 4d6
   Mortimer of London: Argentum Coat [+1] (Must be visible)
Astral: 9

== Active Skills ==
Con (Fast Talk)                     6   Pool: 14 (16)
Counterspelling                   1   Pool: 7
Disguise                                4   Pool: 10
Etiquette                                 4   Pool: 10
Impersonation                      4   Pool: 10
Negotiation (Diplomacy)     6   Pool: 12 (14)
Palming                                  4   Pool: 8
Perception                             6   Pool: 11
Pilot Ground Craft                1   Pool: 4
Sneaking                               4   Pool: 7
Spellcasting (Manipulation) 6   Pool: 12 (14)

== Knowledge Skills ==

== Qualities ==
Focused Concentration (Rating 6)
Mentor Spirit (Dragonslayer)
Mystic Adept
Too Pretty To Hit

== Spells ==
(Tradition: Shinto, Resist Drain with WIL + CHA (11))
Detect Life, Extended        DV: F-1
Improved Invisibility           DV: F-1
Increase [Attribute] (CHA) DV: F-3
Increase Reflexes             DV: F
Influence                             DV: F-1
Levitate                               DV: F-2
Magic Fingers                   DV: F-2
Mind Probe                        DV: F
Spatial Sense, Extended  DV: F-1
Stunbolt                             DV: F-3

== Powers ==
Authoritative Tone Rating: 2
Combat Sense Rating: 1
Facial Sculpt Rating: 1
Heightened Concern
Keratin Control
Kinesics Rating: 1
Magic Sense
Melanin Control
Nimble Fingers
Sustenance
Traceless Walk
Voice Control Rating: 1

== Lifestyles ==
(Medium)  1 months

== Armor ==
Mortimer of London: Argentum Coat   12
   +Concealability
   +Custom Fit (Stack)

== Weapons ==
Unarmed Attack
   Pool: 2        Accuracy: 4     DV: 2S       AP: -     RC: 2

I'm actually not sure if i went overboard with the face abilities. i invested heavily in CHA and social skills. Actually i was a bit suprised that it used up so much of the available 950 karma points already. Keep in mind it would also be possible to raise skills over 6, because the character will be out of chargen after 850 of the 950 karma (850 was the starting value our GM has set). Qualities are also allowed to be +35/-35 (just in case you are wondering how much points i've spent there). No restricted gear quality allowed (not sure why, but it's not important for me, so i don't bother).

No Worries.
(...)

Someone, on these boards had some GREAT advise one time & I always consider it when looking at character builds. 
Here is a bit of a paraphrase
Shadowruns consist of 3 activities/stages & you want to be able to do SOMETHING for every one of those to avoid boredom & be happy w/ your play time.
1.  Legwork - Everyone should be able to contribute to the information gathering phase... Contact Contact Contacts .... they are for every class.
2.  Combat  -  Everyone needs to be able to shoot & shoot well with at least 1 decent weapon
3.  Support/Other  -  Kind of a catch all, but you want some other ability to do when your not doing the above 2.   Help w/ Recon,  Stealth Insertion, B&E,  Medical Treatment,  Astral Recon,  Gear Acquisition,  Buffing, Leadership, Demolitions, something for when you are not on the phone or actively shooting.
(...)
Let us know what concept you finally decide on.

Thanks, man! And again for sharing these interesting insights. From what i know out of my first year in SR it is a really good summary of the important things to do in SR. I will keep this in mind for the actual char building phase, for sure!

In fact, i have not decided yet if i will stick with the face. For me it needs time to have this special idea, feel comfy with a build and/or the story behind it. The actual try seems pretty decent. Contacts are still missing, but will be a thing for the legwork phase. At least one combat spell is there, a DP of 16 is also not bad (and it's non-lethal damage, which will be a huge boost to our damage types ^^), another combat type should be included though. And last but not least a lot of spells to scout the area, move team mates around and simply buff people in the line of fire. A few things that i am actually arguing about:
- How is magic sense used? The adept can "feel" magic objects (and subjects) in a range of 60 meters. Allright, understand that. But how can i use it like detect magic, a spell which gives you different amounts of information regarding your hits...? Has someone found an errata or simple solution for it? Am i missing something here? Love this adept power, actually, because it is just working, gives informations almost instantly (not like assensing every single obejct piece by piece) and i don't have to project astrally, which will leave me vulnerable.
- Is clout an option? Seems like together with a fetish (-2 drain value for 2k NY) it is stupidly easy to overcast. F9 means Dmg 9 and AP -9 for a DV of 4 (yeah, lethal damage... but with 15 drain resistance it should be fine). Sure, it's damage rating not as high as some guns, but it could be an interesting alternative, right?
- Loved the idea to fight unarmed with magic hands, but can't really see this work, since the highest possible stat rating would be spell force = 6 most of the time. So you attack unarmed with STR/AGI 6. Or is it possible to boost this otherwise? Seems not very good to me.
- I could be a bit "cheesy" and pick up the jack of all trades quality, picking up a lot of of 6-8 ratings in skill (our GM has allowed us to go up to 8 in chargen - don't know why either... don't like this, but still can use it) and pick up a lot of 1-2 value skills "after chargen" with the 100 extra karma i get to be on the same level with the other players (they still will have more points, but it is close). Don't know if i like this, but it would theoretically be possible, because i'm not risking anything going out of chargen without some of the small skills.

[Marcus]

Looks good to me. I'd suggest swapping, diplomacy to bargaining or contracts. 
You still need contacts though.

[bdyer]

If you plan on using magic fingers to fight with as I suggested, you will need the unarmed skill for that.

For the rest I would suggest 1-2 points in automatics and bringing edge up to 5 or 6. Since you have the money, a power foci would also be awesome.

[gradivus]

Counterspelling is based solely on the skill.... so a skill of 1 just gives you one die to use.

No such thing as too much invested in social for a Face,,,
My Pornomancer has 8 CHA, 6|Spec in Con, Leadership and Negotiations, Authoritative Tone[3] and Cool Resolve [2].

[bdyer]

For magic fingers or any spell for that matter you can break the force limita by spending edge beforehand or spending reagents.  Those spells can still be sustained by focused concentration or sustaining foci.

So for magic fingers if you have an edge of 6 you spend edge beforehand and add your pool.  So your dicepool will be 6(mag) + 6(skill) + 6(edge) + 4( spec and mentor) + (4) foci=26 dice with exploding 6's.  On average you should have 10 hits or agil 10/ str 10 spell that can be sustained all day through heightened concentration or focused concentration.

Using that to attack you have 10+skill+ bonuses with a limit of force.

You can also use the fingers to Palm stuff off of other people, pick locks, use it sorta like levitate by picking people up.