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Tycho

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« Reply #30 on: <03-22-11/2010:01> »
Doc Wagon: "We busting our asses to save the terrorists of the world, so that you remain in fear and in our service, of cause!"

Yeah sounds like a real Win-Win Situation...  ::)

Really? There will always be some celebrity to rescue out of a dangerous situation, even if they pay runners to assault him to get good publicity out of the rescue, the money would be better spend than advertising "We save shadowrunners, hurray!"

Even if they just rescue a regular guy/girl from gang violence or a robbery, they would get better publicity.
The last Thing DW will do is publicly announce that they save shadowrunners from corporate security by force...

cya
Tycho

CanRay

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« Reply #31 on: <03-22-11/2017:40> »
Depends on which media the people watch...

Some Corporations villainize Shadowrunners, some have them heralded as "Heroes Of The Little Man" who are supported by a certain Corporation that's friendly to "The Little People" that's just recognizable as a "RL" Corp.

Sometimes it's the same Corporation that does the same thing, having the best of both worlds, or different divisions of media fighting over ratings to get a better corner office for their managers...  Who, ironically, probably use Shadowrunners to further their goals.

DocWagon seems to be firmly in the "Support the Shadowrunners" league.  Probably on the idea that, if Shadowrunners are using their services, they're less likely to want to perform 'Runs against DocWagon.  Actually...  That might be another reason for this:  Preemptive Defense against Shadowruns.
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Critias

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« Reply #32 on: <03-22-11/2034:35> »
Doc Wagon: "We busting our asses to save the terrorists of the world, so that you remain in fear and in our service, of cause!"
In real life, shadowrunners are mercenary terrorists.  In Shadowrun, they're the guys folks make reality tv shows, action movies, and music videos about.  The whole game flows more smoothly if you don't get the two mixed up.

Tycho

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« Reply #33 on: <03-22-11/2105:12> »
In RL there are also Movies and TV Shows about "Shadowrunners": A-Team, Leverage, Oceans 11, Ronin, Heat, Nikita and so on. However nobody advertises with "We help dangerous criminals, because the look cool in the movies..." People are able to distinguish between fiction and reality, so nobody will root for DW's "We save bad people!"-Campaign

In LA Doc Wagon could use that advertisement, because there is a very specific hype about runners, but in the rest of the world runners are just terrorists, even if there are cool movies and tv shows about them...

cya
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CanRay

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« Reply #34 on: <03-22-11/2105:43> »
Mercenaries, sure.  Terrorists?

Some, yes...  But that's a big brush to be painting all of them with.
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Critias

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« Reply #35 on: <03-22-11/2132:46> »
...but in the rest of the world runners are just terrorists, even if there are cool movies and tv shows about them...
No, they're not, and they've traditionally not been described as such.  If that's how you see them, fine, and obviously neither of us is going to change the other's mind -- but there's long been a light-hearted, perhaps even silly, "exception" made in Shadowrun's popular culture for, well, shadowrunners.  Does it make sense?  Not entirely, no.  But given the nature (and title) of the game, it's just been a part of the background for a long, long, time.

It's a little goofy, sure, but it's there.  You can certainly gloss over it or dial it down in your campaign, but I think doing so takes away a little of the over-the-top fun of the setting.

Bull

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« Reply #36 on: <03-22-11/2223:19> »
I keep saying this lately, but it bears repeating, as it's something I think people have forgotten (and that's been lost in the fiction somewhere)...

In Shadowrun, 99.999% of the population are ignorant sheep.  They buy what the corporate media tells them to.  They eat, sleep, live, breath, do, wear, etc what the media says to.  Shadowrun is a dystopian, dark future where the corporations control everything, including how most people think.

And the corps?  They like Shadowrunners.  They're useful.

Bull

CanRay

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« Reply #37 on: <03-22-11/2240:49> »
Actually, the first few sentences of Attitude shows the public's view of Shadowrunners.  Back up, actually, the COVER shows what the public's view of Shadowrunners are.

There's also Karl Kombatmage, Slade the Sniper, and the rest that have been examples of Shadowrunners in popular media.  In fact, I often quote Karl Kombatmage being the primary area of knowledge that most people have about Magic.

Which is also the same about of accuracy they have about firearms and vehicles explosive capabilities.   :P
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CanRay

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« Reply #38 on: <03-22-11/2243:06> »
I keep saying this lately, but it bears repeating, as it's something I think people have forgotten (and that's been lost in the fiction somewhere)...

In Shadowrun, 99.999% of the population are ignorant sheep.  They buy what the corporate media tells them to.  They eat, sleep, live, breath, do, wear, etc what the media says to.  Shadowrun is a dystopian, dark future where the corporations control everything, including how most people think.

And the corps?  They like Shadowrunners.  They're useful.

Bull
Good suggestion I heard recently is the movie "Demolition Man".  Before and after John Spartan is frozen.  Both are Dystopian, but differently so.

Most of the people above ground after John is unfrozen...  That's John Q. Wageslave.  Yes.  They're all that wimpy.

The novel apparently shows just how much worse it is, too!
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Bull

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« Reply #39 on: <03-23-11/1403:44> »
Yeah.  I think modern internet and stuff has really spoiled people on their outlooks, and they find it completely unbelievable that people could be such mindless lemmings, but...  Well...  Hell, look around the world today.  Look at how the news agencies twist things around now, and (avoiding any specific politics here, lets NOT go there) how much certain groups of people completely and utterly believe things that are totally false, because their news agency of choice tells them it's true?

Reality is easy to manipulate, if enough of the media is in on it.

Bull

EmperorPenguin

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« Reply #40 on: <03-23-11/1812:03> »
I can't agree with the assumption that people, in general, are ignorant, and accept all information spoonfed and at face value.  I've come across this opinion a lot (it seems especially prolific on the internet) and I don't really want to speculate on whether it is cultural, subcultural, age-based or has other origins.  It is based on a very limited observation of a very large population.

In a game world like Shadowrun it is certainly easier to perceive the average person as a mindless drone.  Bull's right - the game material encourages it!  Beyond simplification, I believe the purpose is to help set the PCs apart as 'special'.  They are above the general population in something more key than even armament or skill - knowledge.

The desire to have "us" and "them" when it comes to understanding and media savvy is strong.  In SR, it is obvious.  "Us" are 'runners and "them" are corps, gov'ts, law, dragons... pretty much everyone else.  I think things are much more delineated in RL, though.

I think there's plenty of room for wageslaves who exhibit intelligence (if not shadow common sense).  That being said, you can't subvert a trope if you don't spend a lot of time building it up first!

CanRay

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« Reply #41 on: <03-23-11/1957:57> »
Sorry man, people are sheep and idiots.  Work tech support, and you'll find out just how true that is.

They buy what they're told to buy, and believe what they're told to believe within their own mindset.  It's a far more rare an individual that thinks for him/herself.

Think back to High School (Or Grade School if you're not a Gen-Xer like myself).  How many people actually put thought and effort into work?  A small percentage, right?  Just coasting along until they were able to get that factory/mining/fishing/whatever job that Dad and Dad-before him and so on did, right?

If you went to College/University, that number changed drastically, didn't it?  The majority were people that cared and thought and fought to get through things, with the minority coasting along.  But a lot less people in total, right?

Maybe that's just my personal experience...  Of course, my personal experience included a High School English Course that had someone write a Book Report on an issue Rolling Stone Magazine and got a B, while I got a C on an actual BOOK.
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hobgoblin

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« Reply #42 on: <03-24-11/1341:15> »
A teachers pet case? Or did someone in the magazine report writers family donate a wing or something to the place of learning?

And yea, after a work day it appears that most are happy to crash in front of the idiot-box until bed time. Tho it depends on age somewhat as well. The older one gets, the harder a habit or notion of reality is harder to break.

This on top of all kinds of biases the human brain operates with, like confirmation bias or considering the first told story about some subject more true then subsequent ones that contradicts the first one.
« Last Edit: <03-24-11/1349:12> by hobgoblin »
Want to see my flash new jacket?

CanRay

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« Reply #43 on: <03-24-11/1615:53> »
No...  I wish it was a case of teacher's pet.  It was far from the only example I can give, for a variety of reasons and purposes.   :'(
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JM_Hardy

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« Reply #44 on: <04-08-11/1409:23> »
We have a street date! It'll be out April 27!

Jason H.
Jason M. Hardy
Shadowrun Line Developer

"The thing is, Im serious about what I do, and the people with whom I associate are serious about what they do. Were all serious people. Look, I can even make a serious face. See?" --Quinn Bailey