[Critias]

Thanks for the comments! I'll check in with Mr. Stackpole--Catalyst's relationship with him is good in general, and I'd love to see more of his work too!

Jason H.

Mmm, Wolf and Raven.  Mmm.

[Malachi]

I have worked up a basic character in 15 minutes using PACKS...

This makes me happy.  My target was 30 minutes or less when designing the system.

maybe an example of the basic character types as shown in Runners Companion: Fire support, close comabt, matrix, magic, etc, using the PACKS
something maybe the devs could post in the forums and the GMs hand out to players

That is certainly doable.  I'll see if I can commit some time to it.

[JM_Hardy]

If you like PACKS--and I sure do--give Malachi up there a Rep boost, because he did fantastic work on it.

Jason H.

[CanRay]

Thanks for the comments! I'll check in with Mr. Stackpole--Catalyst's relationship with him is good in general, and I'd love to see more of his work too!

Jason H.

OK, a new Wolf and Raven would totally ROCK!  I've been hesitant to use any of the characters from those stories in my 2070 games...  But did have Jimmy "Spike" Mackelroy show up as the manager of the Seadogs/Mariners after being kicked out of the league for not using the StatSofts that are required by Baseball, with Shadowtalkers commenting about how he ruined/brought dignity back to Baseball by doing so.

Yeah, I think you can pretty much put down a new "Wolf and Raven" as a "Insta-Sell" for fans like myself.  Be a nice return to the fiction market, too.

Edit:  Malachi:  Thumbs up!

[wylie]

ah man, the forum just loss my post & i can't remember what I wrote

hmm, why isn't there a few packages for changelings? for just those few players who want to play a cat person or lizard man, etc..

PACKS went quick for as i knew what I wanted to create, and PACKS remind me of the 1st ED creation system. Mind you, I have read over the pages several times to get idea what was contained

ah Stackpole....good novels..did he help write the CMP about ARES and the Mech for Desert wars?
think that was the sun of it..

oh, if I get the chance i may post my own version of PACKS made characters

[Raventrickster]

I'm looking forward to seeing runner's toolkit in a hard copy version.  The portions of it that I want really seem like they would be better served in hard copy than digital, which is a bit of a change for me since almost my entire shadowrun library is pdf. 

As for a new wolf and raven novel, all I can say is F*CK YEAH!!! 

[Mara]

Kinda disappointed: while there is a Mystic Adept Attribute Package, there is not a single Mystic Adept Power Package.

A Mystic Adept Power Kit would've been redundant.  The Mystic Adept is a combination Adept and Magician right?  So, all you need to do is select from the Adept Power Kits for the Adept powers you want, then select one or more Spell Kits for the spells you want.  Then you have your Mystic Adept!

See, that is the problem: A Mystic Adept is NOT just a combination of Adept and Magician. It is something different, because of
all the weaknesses to its magician side. The problem is not making something that is a combination, it is making something that
is a VIABLE combination as a starting character. I don't mean the "Oh, well, this kinda sucks, but with some XP it will be awesome."
I mean something that straight out of the box is going to be relevant.

[FastJack]

Kinda disappointed: while there is a Mystic Adept Attribute Package, there is not a single Mystic Adept Power Package.

A Mystic Adept Power Kit would've been redundant.  The Mystic Adept is a combination Adept and Magician right?  So, all you need to do is select from the Adept Power Kits for the Adept powers you want, then select one or more Spell Kits for the spells you want.  Then you have your Mystic Adept!

See, that is the problem: A Mystic Adept is NOT just a combination of Adept and Magician. It is something different, because of
all the weaknesses to its magician side. The problem is not making something that is a combination, it is making something that
is a VIABLE combination as a starting character. I don't mean the "Oh, well, this kinda sucks, but with some XP it will be awesome."
I mean something that straight out of the box is going to be relevant.

The key is to use the Martial Arts options in Runners Companion. It allows you to get a nice boost to your Adept abilities without taking away from your Sorcery/Conjuring.

[wylie]

the MA options are nice for most games, but if you are playing in SR Missions, the martial art options are not allowed

[Malachi]

See, that is the problem: A Mystic Adept is NOT just a combination of Adept and Magician. It is something different, because of
all the weaknesses to its magician side. The problem is not making something that is a combination, it is making something that
is a VIABLE combination as a starting character. I don't mean the "Oh, well, this kinda sucks, but with some XP it will be awesome."
I mean something that straight out of the box is going to be relevant.

Sounds like you have a very specific idea about how you like your Mystic Adepts played, and that's great.  Functionally, the PACKS system can create Mystic Adepts, which I would consider "viable" characters.  However, the very premise of the system is that it allows someone to create a functional character quickly, by presenting the most "common" options in a "plug and play" modular manner.

All that said, I think it would be great if people would write up their own kits for the various categories and post them.

[wylie]

here is a couple i worked up, they are not finished left open to player choices/ taste/ opinion/ etc..
yes, i did a quick cut  & paste to speed up the process
are they playable? yes
will they survive? hmm, good question

“stock” street samurai
Race: troll
Body :8    agility:4     reaction:3     str:7       cha:3     inti.: 4    Logic:3         will:4
Edge 2   
Active Skills (60): Close Combat Group 2 [20], Exotic Melee Weapon (Elbow Cyber Spur) 5 [20], Exotic Ranged Weapon (Projectile Spur3) 5 [20]
Knowledge Skills (10): Samurai Films 5 [10]
Cyberware (4.8 Ess/25): Cybereyes (3, smartgun link, thermographic vision) [0.4 Ess/3,000¥], full synthetic customized cyberarm (alphaware, w/AGI5, BOD 3, STR5, Evo Kali optimization3, projectile spur3, retractable elbow cyber spur) [0.8/70,000¥], reaction enhancers (2) [0.6 Ess/20,000], wired reflexes (2) [3.0 Essence/32,000¥]
Contacts (5): Cyberware Sales Rep (Connection 3, Loyalty 2) [5]
Active Skills (40): Armorer 5 [20], Heavy Weapons 5 [20]
Cyberware (0.9 Ess/2): Cyberears (3, w/balance augmenter, damper, ear recording unit, sound link, spatial recognizer) [0.4 Ess/7,500¥], cybereyes (4, w/image link, smartlink) [0.5 Ess/2,500¥]
Gear (: Ares Auxilia Mk32 [8,000¥], armor jacket (w/gel packs2, helmet, SecureTech PPP vitals protector2) (11/10) [2,700¥], ArmTech MGL-12 (w/internal smartgun system, airburst link, 5 flash-bang minigrenades, 5 fragmentation minigrenades, 5 thermal smoke minigrenades) [5,000¥], gyro-stabilization harness [3,000¥], hip pad bracing system [200¥], Ingram White Knight (w/internal smartgun system, 2 100- round belts of tracer ammo) [5,500¥], Stoner-Ares M202 (w/ internal smartgun system, 2 100-round belts of tracer ammo) [11,500¥], bipod [100¥]
Race: 40  atttibutes:200  skills/ gear:150                       20 pts left over (don’t count knowledge skills) to customize

“stock” hacker
Race: elf
Body:3     agility:4    reaction:4    str:3   cha:4    inti.:5   logic:5    will:3
Edge:2
Active Skills (70): Cracking Group 4 [40], Electronics Group 3 [30]
Knowledge Skills (6): Hacker Lore 3 [6]
Contacts (6): Computer Science Professor (Connection 3, Loyalty 3) [6]
Commlink (31,650¥): Fairlight Caliban (Firewall 6, System 6, Response upgraded to 5, w/armor4 (6), cryptosense module4, customized interface4, fetch module4 (3), hardening4 (6), sim module modified for BTL/hot-sim, response enhancer4 (3)) [31,650¥]
Programs (54,500¥): Analyze 5 [500¥], Armor 5 [5,000¥], Attack 5 [5,000¥], Black Hammer 3 [3,000¥], Blackout [3,000¥], Browse 5 [500¥], Biofeedback Filter 5 [5,000¥], Command 5 [500¥], Decrypt 5 [5,000¥], Edit 5 [500¥], Encrypt 5 [500¥], Exploit 6 [6,000¥], Medic 4 [4,000¥], Purge4 5 [500¥], Scan 5 [500¥], Sniffer 5 [5,000¥], Stealth 5 [5,000¥], Track 5 [5,000¥]
Clothing and Armor (400¥): Leather jacket (w/nonconductivity 1) (2/2) [400¥]
Weapons (1,500¥): Taurus Multi-62 (w/weapon commlink2 (disposable commlink4)) [1,500¥]
Misc. Gear (1,950¥): Glasses (1, w/image link) [50¥], hardware kit [500¥], optical tap4 [100¥], premium Matrix service4 (1 year) [1,200¥], 5 sheets of electronic paper [100¥]
Active Skills (32): Archery 3 [12], Close Combat Group 2 [20]
Knowledge Skills (30): BTLs 3 [6], Chop Shops 3 [6], Gang Signs 3 [6], Gang Turf 3 [6], Pimps 3 [6]
Gear (5): Low lifestyle (12 months) [24,000¥], knife [20¥], slingshot2 [30¥], armor jacket (8/6) [900¥], clothing (gang colors) [50¥]
Contacts (: Gang (Group contact; Connection 2, Loyalty 4; 2-19 members, District area of influence) [8]
Race:30    attributes: 200   skills/ gear: 100            36 pts left over  for customize  (don’t count knowledge skills in cost)

[JM_Hardy]

I love that PACKS discussion is going on, and if you want to learn a little more about this part of the Runner's Toolkit, take a look at the previews just posted on the blog.

Jason H.

[skulldier]

So ready for this to get to my door. And by that, I mean I'm ready to wait another few months to get it in the mail. I managed to talk myself up from the basic, no frills box-set to the box-set, pdf, and LE screen.

But it's got me jazzed about making characters which is the most time-consuming part of my game preparation. PACKS is a fantastic idea and really works with Shadowrun since the archetypes are how most people I know kicked off their shadowrunning back in the day. I'm not jazzed about the archetypes in the SR4A book, but this quick and modular system is looking nice.

Sucks that I'm out of state right now, I gotta download the pdf and get my game prepped for this Sunday...

[Ancient History]

I spent a few minutes writing this up over on Dumpshock, and thought I'd throw it out here, for anyone wondering about the differences between the Original PACKS and the one published in Runner's Toolkit.

My system was broken down into Profiles (collections of skills, augmentations, spells, complex forms, lifestyles and gear), Kits (collections of lifestyles and gear), and Sets (collections of adept powers). Every Profile and Kit had a listed cost in BPs and ¥, and ever Set by a given number of Power Points. Each individual entry and item in my profiles and kits was broken down by BP/ ¥ cost, so you could quickly swap out any individual item - like if you didn't care for a specific skill or piece of gear, you could subtract it out of the total. I made sure to list the limitations of the equipment and the minimum attribute and skill values and qualities you need to make it work within the character generation rules.

NuPACKS (sorry, I couldn't resist) breaks everything down into Sets: Attributes, Skills, Adept Powers, Spells, Complex Forms, and Gear. Costs are given in BP (or Power Points for the Adept Sets). Individual costs are not generally broken out, but builds have a little descriptor that describes why certain aspects were emphasized over others.

So the two are basically similar but have significantly different approaches. NuPACKS does some things PACKS Original™ does not, like the Attribute Sets and the descriptors, which reveal the different design philosophy. I think my Profiles and Kits are much more detailed, but also much more idiosyncratic; NuPACKS is probably more appealing to new players that aren't very familiar with the ruleset. Both are equally plug-and-play, at least as far as I can judge, and I haven't stopped in to see if they made specific reference to rules, gear, and options beyond the main rulebook, or if they were called out like in mine. All told I believe - haven't counted, but the index definitely looks bigger - that NuPACKS offers more Kits overall than I do Profiles, Kits, and Sets. NuPACKS definitely appears to be a much more modular system, since they didn't tie equipment, attribute, spells, complex forms, lifestyles, etc. together like I did.

As an example of the NuPACKS design philosophy (taken from the first preview), the Attribute Sets in NuPACKS are all around 200 BP - the normal maximum number of BP characters can spend in a 400 BP chargen game - but with little to no softmaxing apparent. Options for different Awakened/Technomancer qualities aren't explicitly given, but the BP cost is noted so characters that know about such options should have no difficulty swapping them out if they choose to do so.

[wylie]

very interesting, as these PACKS i have not seen.