[Xelian]

6e is easier for gms, i have been running shadowrun since 2nd. There's no perfect ruleset. 6th is off to a rough start though and there's plenty of errata to be done.  I do feel like the matrix is 100% better. Nobody ever wanted to be a decker until this edition.

I pretty much forbade them my players to play Deckers in 5th edition and made a DM boosted decker NPC's which simply didn't fail the checks (unless story appropriate) in order to avoid Matrix Interactions. And yeah I really like the new edition but it does need more work. That i was published so untested leaves a bad taste. After the 20-1 version the book is more playable now but there are still some thing which bother me. Strenght really doesn't have a good use anymore and many of the qualities need complete rework. Analytical mind is super broken, Impaired attribute is super strong and the addictions give pathetic karma compared to allergies while being much more harsh on the player.

[Michael Chandra]

I would say that Addiction vs Allergy really depends on how the GM plays them. An addiction to smoking sounds like cheap to me compared to allergies.

I will soon have an errataed edition, so then I can start writing my houserules. There's qualities that need reworking, and a GM can just ban them outright but it's easier if there's more balanced versions.

Note that the quality may have suffered, but the book definitely wasn't untested. I heard enough about the playtests to know that much. But change blindness is a big problem when you're heavily cutting back on page count.

[Ixal]

How hard would it be to take the 6E matrix and technos and use them in a 5E game?

[penllawen]

How hard would it be to take the 6E matrix and technos and use them in a 5E game?

That’s approximately what I’m doing - my campaign is having a soft reboot next week [1] and I’m using a backported version of the 6e Matrix rules. It’s mostly 6e, except where it interacts with the wider 5e system (so ASDF are still limits and not Attack/Defence Rating.) It worked well enough in some test scenarios I ran. I’ll know more once it gets more table time.

I don’t have a doc I can share publicly; the one I have is full of screen grabs from 5e and 6e’s PDFs and is probably borderline for fair use.

[1] we finished a year-long arc, now starting a new one with a mixture of old and new characters.

[Banshee]

How hard would it be to take the 6E matrix and technos and use them in a 5E game?

That’s approximately what I’m doing - my campaign is having a soft reboot next week [1] and I’m using a backported version of the 6e Matrix rules. It’s mostly 6e, except where it interacts with the wider 5e system (so ASDF are still limits and not Attack/Defence Rating.) It worked well enough in some test scenarios I ran. I’ll know more once it gets more table time.

I don’t have a doc I can share publicly; the one I have is full of screen grabs from 5e and 6e’s PDFs and is probably borderline for fair use.

[1] we finished a year-long arc, now starting a new one with a mixture of old and new characters.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who wants to know so please keep us posted.

[Xenon]

Should be fairly easy.

When you spot an Icon in a  PAN or a WAN (such as a Device Icon) you now automatically spot all other Icons in the PAN or WAN (including Device Icons and the Persona Icon or Host Icon). In reality you now spot the entire 'network' at once. Either the entire 'network' is running silent, or it isn't.

When you place a mark on an Icon in a PAN or a WAN (such as a Device Icon or the Persona Icon or Host Icon) you now automatically gain a mark on all other icons in the PAN or WAN (including Device Icons and the Persona Icon or Host Icon). In reality you now gain a mark on the entire 'network' at once. Either you have access on the 'network', or you don't.

Spoof Command no longer require a mark at all (it can now be taken without being on the 'inside' of the 'network', similar to Data Spike).

Done.

Pretty much everything else can be left untouched.

[Horsemen]

We've enjoyed the matrix in every edition to date including Anarchy and I've had multiple players wanting to be matrix specialists including an entire game based around Matrix characters in 5e. 6e has some advantages for those that prefer a more casual matrix-based experience.

[penllawen]

Pretty much everything else can be left untouched.

It's not awful but there's more to it than you've covered here.

Such as: the shift from Hack on the Fly to Probe/Backdoor, different OS accumulation, no Matrix damage from Brute Force, changing marks to access levels (which has knock-on effects across programs, other actions, etc), removing mechanics for grids (if you didn't do that already in 5e per Kill Code), "nested" PANs, host maps, the Tar Pit and Encrypt File actions, Check OS works differently, the new Hash Check action, etc etc.

Then there's things that you might or might not bring over: 6e has different Matrix initiative, no dice pool penalty for running silent, the extended test mechanic for Matrix search, 6e's cyberdecks can run twice as many programs, the entire concept of cyberjacks, different PAN size limits, probably more things I'm forgetting.

My doc is currently 35 pages long. Mostly that's a detailed comparison of 5e and 6e, though, which I wrote first to see where the changes were. But it's not a trivial undertaking.

[Finstersang]

One of the biggest things for me (and I wonder why it´s not mentioned more often):
Matrix Damage cause "Wound Modifiers" now, applicable to all uses of the device. And if I´m not mistaken, that´s really all the devices, including Drones, Smartguns etc. That´s huge. It may seem like "spiky" Deckers are in a worse place compared to 5th Edition, with the lowered Damage Codes and the missing Bonus Damage from Programms and Marks. But unlike 5th Edition, Deckers don´t have to oneshot everything or risk losing their target. Dataspiking a Smartgun mid-combat might not be enough to instantly brick it, but it´s likely enough to incur a modificator of -1 or -2. And this one sticks even when the Streetsam takes it off the Matrix.

Say what you want about 6th Edition, but the Matrix really has been improved overall. The only thing I don´t like is that the VR modes offer so little benefit for the additional risk. The additional Minor in Cold Sim is practically pointless (there are only a few Minor Matrix Actions, most of which are situational), and while the second Major from Hot Sim is quite usefull, you can get there with Augmentations or Drugs as well. Without the Dice Pool modifier from the Previous Editions, VR isn´t really worth it right now. But that´s easy to fix with a houserule or two, and maybe an upcoming supplement or Errata cycle steps in as well.

[penllawen]

One of the biggest things for me (and I wonder why it´s not mentioned more often):
Matrix Damage cause "Wound Modifiers" now, applicable to all uses of the device. And if I´m not mistaken, that´s really all the devices, including Drones, Smartguns etc. That´s huge.

Ah, yes, I left that out of my list there (although it is mentioned in my doc.) I think that’s a pretty big deal, indeed. Although you can run into fluff issues with players who don’t like the idea that (say) guns need the Matrix to work, and so can be impeded by Matrix damage.

 

Say what you want about 6th Edition, but the Matrix really has been improved overall.

Strongly agree!

[penllawen]

Should be fairly easy.... Pretty much everything else can be left untouched.

I'm having another pass through my doc now and there's a lot more smaller changes than you might think.

For example, just from Matrix Combat actions (and excluding changes that stem from broader 5e->6e mechanics, like no more Interrupt actions, or recalibrated damage values):

• Crash Program resistance changes from Intuition+Firewall to Data Processing+Device Rating
• Crash Program now needs Admin access rather than 1 mark
• Data Spike resistance changes from Intuition+Firewall to Data Processing+Firewall
• Data Spike no longer gets a damage bonus if you hold marks / access levels on the target
• Full Matrix Defence no longer lasts the entire round but just one attack (which feels like an error, but there it is)
• Full Matrix Defence adds Firewall, not Willpower, to your defence pools
• Full Matrix Defence used to need 4 marks to use, now it needs none (which feels like a bit of 5e weirdness that has been sanded off)
• Tarpit action is entirely new

This is just across four actions, the other actions all have similar levels of small tweaks.

I must admit, the reasoning behind some of these smaller changes is opaque to me. I think I'd need to compile a master list of them all so I could look over them at a glance and look for patterns. Maybe the intent is to make deckers' chargen different? By requiring different stats?

[penllawen]

Here's a peek at my doc, for those who are curious. Imagine this, but for ~35 pages, across every action, every program, etc etc. It's quite a job of work!

Edit - and I just noticed the 6e dumpshock text is wrong there (now fixed in my doc)

[Xenon]

The big thing is the improved action economy. Rest is mostly just minor shuffle.

[lunatec]

I spent some time this weekend going over 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 6th editions and can say that each version had it's rough spots. In my humble opinion, one of the most arrogant and overused phrases on the internet, I honestly don't think that 6th is really that bad. The biggest problem with the CRB is that it was put together by a team of unconnected players, in illogical and confusingly disjointed manner, contains too much "flavor" in places where we need the numbers, examples and clearer descriptions. Editing is it's biggest failing, but the new mechanics aren't bad....just different.

Why 6th over 5th? No reason other than you want to change things up, play something interesting and have the money to drop on a new take on. the game.