[Shinobi Killfist]

For the original topic. I think it needs a new edition. There are tons of bad rules, math and the supplements, many took bad turns. But, I’m not confident they wouldn’t just make the same mistakes all over again.

[HP15BS]

Did Kill Code not improve things on the Matrix front?  I was hoping at least some of the more overarching issues with it would have been fixed....

[Reaver]

Did Kill Code not improve things on the Matrix front?  I was hoping at least some of the more overarching issues with it would have been fixed....

Some, yes.

others it made as clear as mud.

[Marcus]

Did Kill Code not improve things on the Matrix front?  I was hoping at least some of the more overarching issues with it would have been fixed....

Jury is out, probubly but there are to many questions to be sure.

[Iron Serpent Prince]

I was hoping at least some of the more overarching issues with it would have been fixed....

Kill Code didn't really fix anything with the 5E Matrix.

If you had an issue with the way it worked, or any lack of clarity, before Kill Code was published...  It almost certainly exists after Kill Code.

There were some clarifications, such as Agents can no longer run by their lonesome anymore.

The new Matrix Actions are really a double edged sword.  Sure, MARK-less actions are great for PC hackers.  But they just as easily hurt PC hackers because without a MARK, there is no way to know it is being used against you / your team.
Just in case there were still groups out there running with PC team PANs, the Tag action punishes them - again without any MARKs to let the team know it is even happening.

The gear is a mixed bag.  All of a sudden you can end up running up to 7 cyberprograms on commlinks now...  Not to mention an additional 7 programs on cyberdecks.  Maybe more, if your GM allows the two pieces of gear to stack with themselves.  Program slots are nearly useless now.

I could go further into it, but won't here.

In short there is plenty of good in the book.  If your table will only use the whole thing without cherry picking at all, it is even more true that PCs need to either run Wireless Off all the time, or rely on a truly benevolent GM that plays everyone else as Matrix - Ignorant.

[Mirikon]

All in all, my impression of Kill Code was that someone took duct tape, and tried to patch a hole in the Hoover Dam you could drive a Buick through. It is better than nothing, but it did nothing to address the structural changes desperately needed. And instead of just retconning the piece of idiocy that said TMs couldn't be part of a PAN, they instead made it a quality you have to pay for. The other TM 'fixes' are along the same lines.

[Beta]

Personally, I read parts of Kill Code as strongly hinting at a matrix shake-up coming down the line.  Which would probably require either a 5.5 or 6th edition to implement.  They may stretch the storyline of the increasing Nul threat out for a couple more years, perhaps making it big enough to lead to major world disruptions (hey, can't let things get too good out there!).  But it sure seemed to telegraph an upcoming change.

[Mirikon]

Looking at the 'lifespan' of previous editions, I'd say 2019 is a good age for 5E to be sent to the glue factory, and hope 6E fixes the major structural problems.

[Michael Chandra]

I suspect we'll see 6E in 2023. Gives them time to get some more stuff out the door, errata in, playtesting and plot foreshadowing. And finish SRM seasons 9 to 12.

[Mirikon]

I suspect we'll see 6E in 2023. Gives them time to get some more stuff out the door, errata in, playtesting and plot foreshadowing. And finish SRM seasons 9 to 12.

If so, that would make 5th a 10 year edition, from 2013 to 2023, longer than any other one. Given the massive problems with 5e, that seems like a... less than spectacular idea. Really would need to have a 5.5 to fix the horrible structural problems that have still not been addressed.

[Marcus]

Industry wise I don't think we will see much in the way of new editions until late 2020 or after.

Pathfinder 2.0 is in the works. 2 years of play testing or so, amusingly I heard it described as 4.5.

5th I don't think is in big hurry to edition up, their attempt to merge Magic and D&D is where I think they focusing right now. So I expect to see more support for that.   

Onyx Path, we might see some revised OWoD, NWoD thing? They keep pushing new titles. But I don't feel they are really interested in pushing the agenda.

FFG is soaking up profits from Star Wars in ever known table top method, and probably coming out with unknown ones. We will see their version of L5R soon.

Can Ulissies Spiele make the jump to a T1 Table top gaming company? Anyone read their 40k variant? I love FFG Rogue trader to much at the moment. 

7th sea 2nd continue to expand their setting, maybe start some meta soon?

Catalyst doesn't seem like it's in a hurry to close out 5th. I think an anniversary edition, then maybe we ride up plot book mountain? We need a dragon book for sure, maybe some Milspec? More Prime runner support? Fixing Riggers? Making the Matrix Make Sense?, I for one really miss RNG adventure tables from 3rd. Lots of stuff from 3rd that never got shuffled forward, maybe how to play corp again? Plenty of room for adventure mod, lots ground work has been layed in the last couple releases. Lots of plot from the tarot book to mess with.

[Reaver]

It would be nice to see an open play-test of any new rule system; IF they are planning a new edition...


But those can also throw a lot of mud onto issues as well...

Also, Editions seem to last until the ideas for book runs out, not for a set number of years number of years.

Or when something "huge happens" within the company.

[Marcus]

I doubt we will see large scale play tests for SR. That never been their MOD, as far as I know.
5th closed most of the system holes that 4th developed.
But at this point 5th it has several of its own.

[Mirikon]

'At this point'? The biggest holes in 5e have been there since the very start. The Matrix was completely FUBAR, and has moved to 'mostly FUBAR'. TMs are still getting smacked around like a redheaded stepchild. The extra magic books have just made things more complicated, with them adding in kindof sortof magic bullets and muddying the waters with alchemy.

5e started as swiss cheese, and it is still swiss cheese.

[Marcus]

I'm not sold on the TM part (TMs are currently basically immune to drain right now), and the matrix isn't that bad. But i'll give magic bullets are an issue and add riggers to the pile as well.