P.S. Is there a reason that rating 5 and 6 of drone pilot are forbidden (F) but the rating 5 and 6 of vehicle pilot are only restricted (R)? Also rating 1 and 2 drone pilot are not restricted at all, yet the same ratings for vehicle pilot are (which doesn't make much sense to me since most cars have a rating 1 or 2 pilot anyways).I can see a certain logic to making vehicle pilot changes all restricted. You are basically taking a production mass produced well tested vehicle and replacing the code that runs it, which probably hasn't been extensively tested. Whilst it isn't illegal, it isn't something they want people doing all the time.
p.141 talks about making the Aeroquip Dustoff more expensive, but fails to give new prices (This also teaches me not to talk about handy tricks like that online, curse you invisible hand ;) )
Eyyo. Two things, both relating to the electromagnetic mods section for vehicles; first, on page 168 in the description of the pilot mod, it says it rates from 1 through 9, yet on the table on page 169 it only goes up to 6. I assume the description is wrong. Second, more of an editing issue, but on the same table on page 169 the last three columns got borked, the availability numbers got smashed into the skill column and the price got put in their place resulting in the price column to be mostly empty. Just thought you guys might want to know to edit it.
Thanks for the great amount of toys by the way. Love the book.
P.S. Is there a reason that rating 5 and 6 of drone pilot are forbidden (F) but the rating 5 and 6 of vehicle pilot are only restricted (R)? Also rating 1 and 2 drone pilot are not restricted at all, yet the same ratings for vehicle pilot are (which doesn't make much sense to me since most cars have a rating 1 or 2 pilot anyways).
There are no rules for the Smart Tires or Gyro Stabilization systems in the book, or any other 5e books.this.
There are no rules for the Smart Tires or Gyro Stabilization systems in the book, or any other 5e books.this.
there is also no pilot skill listed with the snake drone. what does it use?
In the compiled tables section the F-B Bumblebee from Nothing Personal isn't listed.
Am I being daft or did the rcc get no love whatsoever in this book?I was hoping it would have settled the dongle for RCC yes/no question once and for all, but still not seeing it though maybe they are using a different term and just missed it.
Am I being daft or did the rcc get no love whatsoever in this book?I was hoping it would have settled the dongle for RCC yes/no question once and for all, but still not seeing it though maybe they are using a different term and just missed it.
I might just be missing it, but now that we have different types of flexibility for weapon mounts, we don't have much in the way of rules for using them. Since SR in general doesn't take facing into account other than GM ruling and common sense, there doesn't seem to be a strong penalty for having a fixed weapon mount. In general, there seems to be little game mechanical difference between a Fixed Flexibility turret and a Flexible Flexibility turret - so long as the gun is pointing in the general direction (say a rear mounted weapon during a pursuit), they have the same chances of hitting a target. Or is there a rule somewhere that makes it more difficult to target a weapon on a fixed mount over a flexible one?
Also, not only did RCCs get no love, they appear to have been subtly nerfed. Clearsight, which used to be universally applicable to all drones, is now drone specific, meaning that sharing autosofts is that much less efficient. They got a slight buff as a result of nerfing drones - drones can now no longer run an autosoft with a rating higher than the pilot rating, where they used to be able to do that. So you can consider the RCC's being able to break that restriction a buff, but it really only seems like one whine being business as usual while seeming better because another system got nerfed.
The book makes extensive reference to the best strategy being a stable of different drones used in concert, but it has made doing so significantly more difficult by making all autosofts drone specific (including the new ones introduced) rather than the handy exclusions of Clearsight and EW. And if you try to compensate by running the software on the drone to free up RCC slots, you can't go as high out of char gen (pilot 4 limits autosoft to 4 for a total pool of 8 as opposed to the previous fixed pilot rating of 3 for drones and a rating 6 autosoft for a dice pool of 9), and the cost to go that high is 2k for the autosoft and 3200 for the pilot upgrade (total 5200) versus 3k for a rating 6 autosoft. Sure, you only have to purchase the pilot upgrade once, but since (barring VM) the drones can only run 2 autosofts, that's 7200 to get two skill at dice pool 8 in Rigger 5.0 vs. 6k for two skills at dice pool 9 under the core. Add in VM, and it is 9200 vs. 9k, still keeping in mind that it is a DP of 8 vs. a DP of 9. One of the major complaints of riggers (or drones) prior to the book was that they had abysmal dice pools, and this simply made it worse until you are swimming in nuyen and have the means to obtain 16F or 24F gear.
10k nuyen (and repurchasing all of your autosofts) to get an extra die in your pool isn't terribly expensive, but isn't terribly great, and still is kinda borderline useful. 20k nuyen and again, repurchasing all of your autosofts to get an actually reasonable DP of 12 is rather expensive, but possibly worth it. However, this is top end and a DP of 12 is rather lackluster.
Maybe it works better in play than it appears on the surface - I'm willing to be convinced - but at first blush, it really looks like an overall nerf.
Furthermore, no matter how many Downgrades you make, you only receive a single extra Mod Point.Am I reading this correctly? You can only get +1 MP for a drone total, no matter what you reduce and how far? That seems overly limited to me.
A completely mundane human can hit a dice pool of 20,and a cybered up 24 with Specialisation 26 and with Gear or Matrix Assistance 27+
The Jackpoint crew notes the Class 2,3, and 4 variants for the Shiawase I-Doll, but only lists one price.
Quote from: Drones, Enduring Downgrades pg. 123Furthermore, no matter how many Downgrades you make, you only receive a single extra Mod Point.Am I reading this correctly? You can only get +1 MP for a drone total, no matter what you reduce and how far? That seems overly limited to me.
Also, I can't figure out how moveable drones with 0 Speed are supposed to be. As least the kind that are not Immobile. For example, can the Condor still reposition itself by slowly floating to a new position?
The Matilda has Pilot 2 but comes with Targeting 3. Since autosofts are limited by pilot, this wouldn't work..
On that note, this feels like a completely insane nerf on a category of gear that was already underpowered. I personally don't understand the reasoning behind it, nor the logic of having Pilot and Autosoft both max out at a rating of 6 when the average Metahuman can get the equivalent scores (Attribute + Skill) up to 12 or higher. It's incredibly hard for me to believe that with 60 more years of robotics research, the world of 2075 is still developing robots and drones that are inherently worse at performing a task, even one they are specifically designed for, than a skilled person, especially by such a huge margin. A completely mundane human can hit a dice pool of 20, while the most advanced drone in the world will never have higher than 12.
So this book gave riggers a lot of new options, but made most of the options worse than before? Unexpected direction.
Then again, the game didn't need a second summoner, I suppose.
If we use the drone mod rules, can we still use vehicle mods on them that aren't detailed in the drone section?
If an anthroform is equipped with a cyberweapon, will it still use a melee soft for unarmed like a metahuman, or will it need a special soft for that?
it depends on if your game was allowing a drone to use Autosofts of higher Rating than its Pilot or not.Well, neither; Riggers were seen as completely useless in every group or game I was in so far.
One thing I'd like to have clarified: Are those new matrix actions only meant for RCCs or could you execute them with also with a commlink or a deck (without the dice pool bonus for Noise Reduction, obviously)?
One thing I'd like to have clarified: Are those new matrix actions only meant for RCCs or could you execute them with also with a commlink or a deck (without the dice pool bonus for Noise Reduction, obviously)?
Jack, it says at the bottom of that Electronic Warfare paragraph...
"All of the following actions are Matrix actions. Yes, you can use them if you’re not a rigger."
I would say that indicates you can use them on any commlink or deck. It should be noted like in my earlier post. I received a response about the typo in "Confuse Pilot" it is supposed to say Data Processing, not Attack.
From a more game-centric view, if drones are better at everything than Metahumans, why not have them do everything? Why have Deckers when a Hacking Drone beats them in every category? (4th ed ran into this, HARD, when people started summoning Task Spirits who were better at programming than any Metahuman that ever was, or would, be. FastJack being trashed in the Matrix by a Shaman with a stick just stinks, you know?) ... This is why Skillwires can't get as good as Metahuman skill potential, for instance.
This also gives the Rigger some choices ...she can let drones handle things on their own, where their dice pools are limited, or take manual control for when they want to really focus on a task. You can see this with Tater Tot in the chapter fiction ... she lets her Proletariat handle minor repairs while she's otherwise occupied, but takes over for the important stuff. A Rigger with 6 drones that are rolling 6-8 dice won't dominate a gametable like one with the same number dropping 12-15 dice. THAT Rigger doesn't need to bother with a team.
So, there ya go. A little look behind the curtain. :)
Originally, the Speed rating and KPH had no connection; Speed was an arbitrary rate for chases while KPH was left unmentioned or generalized. (This was during the writing of core) ... the KPH bit was addeded near the end of the process, but, it didn't click. (As noted, ground cars breaking the sound barrier = facepalm).
As such, if you wanted, you could use the Drone rates (Ground = 30 KPH, Rotor = 60 KPH, Jet = 600 KPH, Water = 15 KPH) * Speed to get a 'realistc' speed. (Thus, a Speed 4 car could go up to 120 KPH, while a Speed 4 Rotorcraft would be going 240 KPH) ... that's unofficial, but know the original writer of the core speed was grumbly about the KPH tack-on. :)
How does that work with a spirits movement power?I think I would have to conclude that Movement can only be used on a living creature or things get super out of hand.
Control Rig is plugged into the Bike. I'm driving. Do I roll Pilot Ground Vehicle + Reaction ? Or Pilot Ground Vehicle + Logic ?SECONDING THIS QUESTION, but adding the option of Pilot Ground Vehicle + Intuition.
What rolls are made while using Gunnery jumped into a drone ? Gunnery + Logic ? Or + Agility ?Gunnery + Logic.
In any case, if I directly pilot a drone with cyberarms with integrated weapons, do the arms stats matter at all?Yeah, that also embeds the question of whether you can integrate weapons into drone arms.
Originally, the Speed rating and KPH had no connection; Speed was an arbitrary rate for chases while KPH was left unmentioned or generalized. (This was during the writing of core) ... the KPH bit was addeded near the end of the process, but, it didn't click. (As noted, ground cars breaking the sound barrier = facepalm).
As such, if you wanted, you could use the Drone rates (Ground = 30 KPH, Rotor = 60 KPH, Jet = 600 KPH, Water = 15 KPH) * Speed to get a 'realistc' speed. (Thus, a Speed 4 car could go up to 120 KPH, while a Speed 4 Rotorcraft would be going 240 KPH) ... that's unofficial, but know the original writer of the core speed was grumbly about the KPH tack-on. :)
Yeah, a Speed 4 roto drone would outrun a Speed 6 ground vehicle.
I'm going to be compiling a list of errata, questions, and so on to kick upstairs TONIGHT at midnight, central (That's 5 hours from now) ... if we're lucky, we can get updates to the print run, and get fixes into teh PDF, but Xmas is *right* *there*, so there's some hustle. ANything you got, POST IT HERE. I'll be gathering and pushing as soon as I get home.Would that maybe include questions in the rules section? I know it's late now, just asking.
I'm going to be compiling a list of errata, questions, and so on to kick upstairs TONIGHT at midnight, central (That's 5 hours from now) ... if we're lucky, we can get updates to the print run, and get fixes into teh PDF, but Xmas is *right* *there*, so there's some hustle. ANything you got, POST IT HERE. I'll be gathering and pushing as soon as I get home.Whether or not this manages to happen, and I can't add anything as I haven't got it yet (and time has passed), I just want to say thank you soooo much for trying to get this done.
On Page 124, it lists examples of weapon mounts.
The "mini" size lists "single shot grenade". What is that? Is there a grenade launcher to buy, or is it as if the drone is throwing a single normal grenade? Or is it a minigrenade? What's the range on it? Does it fire it, or just drop it? What do I have to pay for to have my drone capable of using a single grenade? What skill would it us, so I know what skillsoft to buy? If it's a launcher, does it have its own stats, and can I make it a smartgun?
Yeah, there should be a second condition monitor. If the first is filled up the vehicle/drone is no longer operational. If the second one is full, the vehicle is completely slag.
MICRO DRONE HANDL SPEED ACCEL BODY ARMOR PILOT SEN AVAIL COST
Shiawase Kanmushi 4 0G 0 0 0 2 3 8 1000$
S-B Microskimmer 3 1R 1 0 0 2 2 6 1000$
MINI DRONE HANDL SPEED ACCEL BODY ARMOR PILOT SEN AVAIL COST
Horizon Flying Eye 4 1R 1 1(1) 0 2 3 8 2000$
MCT Fly-Spy 4 1R 1 1(1) 0 2 3 8 2000$
Aztechnology Crawler 3 1G 1 1(1) 0 3 2 4 2000$
Renraku Scuttler 4 1G 1 1(0) 0 2 2 8 8000$
SMALL DRONE HANDL SPEED ACCEL BODY ARMOR PILOT SEN AVAIL COST
Lockheed Optic-X 4 4R 2 2(1) 3 3 3 10 21,000$
Ares Mercury 4/- 1G 1 2(1) 0 2 2 2 1000$
Ares Sentry V 4/- 1G 1 2(0) 6 3 2 4R 4000$
MEDIUM DRONE HANDL SPEED ACCEL BODY ARMOR PILOT SEN AVAIL COST
F-B Bumblebee 4 0R 0 3(0) 12 3 3 12F 25,000$
LARGE DRONE HANDL SPEED ACCEL BODY ARMOR PILOT SEN AVAIL COST
Ares Duelst 4 1G 1 4(0) 9 3 2 8R 8000$
GM-Nissan Doberman 3 2G 1 4(4) 9 3 3 4R 8000$
MCT-Nissan Roto-Drone 4 2R 1 4(4) 6 3 3 6 8000$
Aeroquip Dustoff 4 4R 2 4(1) 6 4 3 10R 40,000$
Caduceus 7 4 2G 1 5(2) 3 2 1 12R 16,500$,
MEDIUM DRONE F-B Bumblebee HANDL: 4. SPEED: 0R. ACCEL: 0. BODY: 3(0). ARMOR: 12. PILOT: 3. SEN: 3. AVAIL: 12F. COST: 25,000¥.
Quote from: WakshaaniMEDIUM DRONE F-B Bumblebee HANDL: 4. SPEED: 0R. ACCEL: 0. BODY: 3(0). ARMOR: 12. PILOT: 3. SEN: 3. AVAIL: 12F. COST: 25,000¥.
OK so here's the original stat line... HANDL:3. SPEED: 2. ACCEL: 1. BODY: 4. ARMOR: 14. SEN: 3. PILOT: 3 AVAIL: 12F. COST: 24,000¥.
So it now costs more and been nerfed in almost every single category... making one of the best drones in the game a bit of a junker now.
Quote from: WakshaaniMEDIUM DRONE F-B Bumblebee HANDL: 4. SPEED: 0R. ACCEL: 0. BODY: 3(0). ARMOR: 12. PILOT: 3. SEN: 3. AVAIL: 12F. COST: 25,000¥.
OK so here's the original stat line... HANDL:3. SPEED: 2. ACCEL: 1. BODY: 4. ARMOR: 14. SEN: 3. PILOT: 3 AVAIL: 12F. COST: 24,000¥.
So it now costs more and been nerfed in almost every single category... making one of the best drones in the game a bit of a junker now.
Well it´s still quite decent, but given the fact that for every treat the Drone Riggers got 1-2 slaps in Rigger 5, it stinks. Not to mention the massive inconsistencies and the fact that, once again, proper proofreading is outsourced to the first PDF buyers (kinda like it is with many video games nowadays). With Rigger 5, I´m honestly afraid what will happen to Technomancers in the Resonance Supplement :-\
Quote from: WakshaaniMEDIUM DRONE F-B Bumblebee HANDL: 4. SPEED: 0R. ACCEL: 0. BODY: 3(0). ARMOR: 12. PILOT: 3. SEN: 3. AVAIL: 12F. COST: 25,000¥.
OK so here's the original stat line... HANDL:3. SPEED: 2. ACCEL: 1. BODY: 4. ARMOR: 14. SEN: 3. PILOT: 3 AVAIL: 12F. COST: 24,000¥.
So it now costs more and been nerfed in almost every single category... making one of the best drones in the game a bit of a junker now.
Well it´s still quite decent, but given the fact that for every treat the Drone Riggers got 1-2 slaps in Rigger 5, it stinks. Not to mention the massive inconsistencies and the fact that, once again, proper proofreading is outsourced to the first PDF buyers (kinda like it is with many video games nowadays). With Rigger 5, I´m honestly afraid what will happen to Technomancers in the Resonance Supplement :-\
Not really... you need all those 'free' +1 mods just to make in maneuverable at all, reduced body means nothing further can be done to it without ripping out the M202 (one of the best reasons to buy this drone)... hell even the armor has been reduced, so it has less armor and no movement... honestly seems like someone decided the Bumblebee was too popular so decided to nerf-shot it.
If this is actually what's going to happen... it's gone from my go-to heavy combat drone to a pile of crap I'm never going to buy.
Yeah, how did the Bumblebee get 0R as speed and 0 Acceleration? That just seems very odd.
- Can we assume that anthropomorphic drones have the equivalent of cyberlimbs with regular upgrade capacity, or do they have sort of primitive arms?
Aka, can we put upgrades in them, specifically cyberware. Related, anthroforms have more hitboxes than other drones.
If the above is a positive, how about the Duelist? Does it count as having arms with no hands? Or will it have only 6+ boxes?- Can drones use Riotshields fpr their own good? Provided they have arms.
I kinda get that.. but stripping it completely of it's speed, shaving its armor then making it impossible to do all but the most minor of upgrades... it's a tough pill to swallow, THEN having it cost more after getting nerfed so badly just seems like a slap in the face.
And what does this get you? Handling 2 points higher than the old standard, but with it's truncated speed it's not worth that much...We need to factor in the different movement modes that are now being differentiated, though; Take a look at the rotodrone.
Ok, some questions about drone/vehicle upgrades.
What does Fragile (1) mean ? (Ares Cheeta)
What is the weight limit and cost for single use bomb racks ? (Federated-Boeing Kull)
What are the stats for FlashTech and Teufelkatze flamer ? (BMW Teufelkatze)
Does that also count for additional RCC´s and and mod rules for them ?QuoteWhat are the stats for FlashTech and Teufelkatze flamer ? (BMW Teufelkatze)
That, I dunno. Again, something that we'll need to stat up in the not-too-distant future! (Added it to the FAQ list, however.)
I'm also still unclear about movement rates of drones and vehicles on standard-scale combat. Especially with the new classifications on Speed for Ground and Rotor, I somehow don't think the Kanmushi was ever intended to be able to run at 20m a turn. And can the Cheetah really go 160m each turn "walking"? Is it a zero to max thing, too, or do they have to deal with Acceleration and take the Change Speed Simple Action like vehicles? Do vehicles still have "running" rates, whatever the hell that's supposed to be...?
ALSO! IMPORTANT UPDATE!
I'm going to be compiling a list of errata, questions, and so on to kick upstairs TONIGHT at midnight, central (That's 5 hours from now) ... if we're lucky, we can get updates to the print run, and get fixes into teh PDF, but Xmas is *right* *there*, so there's some hustle. ANything you got, POST IT HERE. I'll be gathering and pushing as soon as I get home.
Does that also count for additional RCC´s and and mod rules for them ?
Seconded. Seriously, are we still bound to these ridiculous exponentially rising Tactical Movement Speeds from the Core Rulebook? If so: Then what is the Movement Rate of the new nerfed-into-oblivion Bumblebee with its Speed of 0?
I noticed the Mitsuhama Akiyama (the assassination doll) from Hard Targets didn't make it into the Master list of vehicles/drones in the end of the book.
...Matter of fact, I think all the drones from HT were missed (Ammo Drone, Reloading Drone, Sparring Drone, pages 189-190).
Hard Targets isn't a book I worked on, so I didn't know about 'em until it was published. I couldnlt add things in that I didn't know about! They seem pretty solid, but the reloading drone steps on my intending to not have an Armorer Skillsoft. Not *entirely* since it doesn't actually build things, but.
And, yes, the Cheetah really is intended to run at 180 KPH (That's about 112 MPH!) ... I had it slower at first, but at Movement 4 it wasn't much faster than the real deal, and, honestly, the idea that it could keep pace with most cars was kinda cool, so I went with it. :)Sounds Awesome.
Am I the only one thinking about a Rigger with 4-6 Cheetah´s in shiny chrome chasing after a fleeing car ? (forgett about chamelon coating, shining chrome in the moonlight with red LED´s in the eye sockets and silenced pawns)I want one with gecko tips for my gnome to ride.
or combining them with the anti theft system to guard the Rigger´s car.
Hard Targets isn't a book I worked on, so I didn't know about 'em until it was published. I couldnlt add things in that I didn't know about! They seem pretty solid, but the reloading drone steps on my intending to not have an Armorer Skillsoft. Not *entirely* since it doesn't actually build things, but.
Ah, that solves another question - if armorer is included in the mechanics catch all for autosofts.
May I ask why you don't want that? It seems rather to be one of the jobs a drone could excel if provided with the right plans.
Wait, Wakshaani, so you're ok with a drone helping to build and repair structures (industrial mechanic), cars and motorcycles (automotive mechanic), and even aircraft and spacecraft (aeronautic and aerospace mechanic, respectively), but guns are too much? How does that make any sense?
Sounds Awesome.
Btw. Am I the only one thinking about a Rigger with 4-6 Cheetah´s in shiny chrome chasing after a fleeing car ? (forgett about chamelon coating, shining chrome in the moonlight with red LED´s in the eye sockets and silenced pawns)
or combining them with the anti theft system to guard the Rigger´s car. Definitly want to see the robbers face when 1-2 cheetahs emerge out of the trunk of the car they just trie to steal ;D
I prefer the P5 for vehicle pursuit personally. None of that pesky chase combat malarkey once it attaches to the car, just follow the signal.
You can't stop the signal, Mal :)
The "Blow up Good" section of Run & Gun has a section on preparing drones to be mobile bombs.Good catch! I'd completely overlooked that as I figured I'd never need advanced demolition rules to take down buildings, not realizing there was other stuff in there. Shame on me for skimming the rules...
Which raises a question:
If a car has the "Assembly" mod, and selfdestrut on theft, can I just pick up the pieces and rebuild it?
And can I set a timedelay for the anti-theft systems? 8)
I noticed the Mitsuhama Akiyama (the assassination doll) from Hard Targets didn't make it into the Master list of vehicles/drones in the end of the book.
...Matter of fact, I think all the drones from HT were missed (Ammo Drone, Reloading Drone, Sparring Drone, pages 189-190).
Hard Targets isn't a book I worked on, so I didn't know about 'em until it was published. I couldnlt add things in that I didn't know about! They seem pretty solid, but the reloading drone steps on my intending to not have an Armorer Skillsoft. Not *entirely* since it doesn't actually build things, but.
LARGE DRONE HANDL SPEED ACCEL BODY ARMOR PILOT SEN AVAIL COST
MCT-Nissan Roto-Drone 4 2R 1 4(4) 6 3 3 6 8000$
MCT-Nissan Roto-Drone: Three extra Weapon Modification Slots.So that as least has been kept... and yeah I missed the changes to the Roto-Drone... once again reducing points AND increasing costs.. REALLY?!
Gonna have to be a nag about this but any ETA on when we can expect to see drone weapon mount prices? It's a pretty damn critical oversight...
Gonna have to be a nag about this but any ETA on when we can expect to see drone weapon mount prices? It's a pretty damn critical oversight...
I thought I'd posted this earlier! Turns out that it's in the file I sent upstairs but NOT here. Time to fix that!
800$ * MP used. Keeps it simple, but a tad less than core.
I'm also still unclear about movement rates of drones and vehicles on standard-scale combat. Especially with the new classifications on Speed for Ground and Rotor, I somehow don't think the Kanmushi was ever intended to be able to run at 20m a turn. And can the Cheetah really go 160m each turn "walking"? Is it a zero to max thing, too, or do they have to deal with Acceleration and take the Change Speed Simple Action like vehicles? Do vehicles still have "running" rates, whatever the hell that's supposed to be...?
Seconded. Seriously, are we still bound to these ridiculous exponentially rising Tactical Movement Speeds from the Core Rulebook? If so: Then what is the Movement Rate of the new nerfed-into-oblivion Bumblebee with its Speed of 0?
In terms of the weapon modification, P115 "Core Vehicle Modifications" lists:QuoteMCT-Nissan Roto-Drone: Three extra Weapon Modification Slots.So that as least has been kept... and yeah I missed the changes to the Roto-Drone... once again reducing points AND increasing costs.. REALLY?!
Like OK it's not so bad, there's only a net loss of 1 point... but still the price has gone up over 50%!
In terms of the weapon modification, P115 "Core Vehicle Modifications" lists:QuoteMCT-Nissan Roto-Drone: Three extra Weapon Modification Slots.So that as least has been kept... and yeah I missed the changes to the Roto-Drone... once again reducing points AND increasing costs.. REALLY?!
Like OK it's not so bad, there's only a net loss of 1 point... but still the price has gone up over 50%!
but its not listed in the stat block at the end of the book. it still listed as 4(4) following that statement it should be 4(7)
I thought I'd posted this earlier! Turns out that it's in the file I sent upstairs but NOT here. Time to fix that!
800$ * MP used. Keeps it simple, but a tad less than core.
Going to assume then that Tiny mounts use the "Count 0 as 0.5" thing so as they cost 400 not 0?
I feel bad about spamming, but it's something that really needs to be answered... Drone movement on standard combat scale. I can be more specific!
1) Is the Movement Rates Table on SR5 Page 202 still accurate/relevant?
2) Do the new Speed qualifiers (Water, Ground, Rotor, Jet) affect standard-scale movement at all?
3) How does Acceleration factor into standard movement?
3a) Is there a minimum movement per turn? I.E. If you're moving at Speed 3, can you decide to not move at all next turn?
4) How many meters per turn can something with 0 Speed move?
5) What constitutes "Running" for a vehicle or drone? How does a Running speed work with a set Speed attribute?I'm also still unclear about movement rates of drones and vehicles on standard-scale combat. Especially with the new classifications on Speed for Ground and Rotor, I somehow don't think the Kanmushi was ever intended to be able to run at 20m a turn. And can the Cheetah really go 160m each turn "walking"? Is it a zero to max thing, too, or do they have to deal with Acceleration and take the Change Speed Simple Action like vehicles? Do vehicles still have "running" rates, whatever the hell that's supposed to be...?
Seconded. Seriously, are we still bound to these ridiculous exponentially rising Tactical Movement Speeds from the Core Rulebook? If so: Then what is the Movement Rate of the new nerfed-into-oblivion Bumblebee with its Speed of 0?
By the way, with the rules in the book, the Cheetah runs at 238 miles per hour, not 112. Though it does have a "Walking Speed" of only 119 MPH, as retarded as "Walking Speed" is as a term here.
SpeedSo, I know Wakshaani posted these rates in this thread or the Rigger 5.0 announcement thread ... but are the drone movement rates actually anywhere in the books? I have been scouring to find them and only find a very general note that Jet beats Rotor beats Ground beats Water, but nothing super specific like the KPH values.
Water Spd*15KPH Spd*12.5m/turn
Ground Spd*30KPH Spd*25m/turn
Rotor Spd*60KPH Spd*50m/turn
Jet Spd*600KPH Spd*500m/turn
SpeedThat doesn't really help. How do you determine speed for the purposes of Ramming, for example? If the vehicle is traveling faster than it's walking speed while Ramming, the pilot must make a vehicle test.
Water Spd*15KPH Spd*12.5m/turn
Ground Spd*30KPH Spd*25m/turn
Rotor Spd*60KPH Spd*50m/turn
Jet Spd*600KPH Spd*500m/turn
SpeedThat doesn't really help. How do you determine speed for the purposes of Ramming, for example? If the vehicle is traveling faster than it's walking speed while Ramming, the pilot must make a vehicle test.
Water Spd*15KPH Spd*12.5m/turn
Ground Spd*30KPH Spd*25m/turn
Rotor Spd*60KPH Spd*50m/turn
Jet Spd*600KPH Spd*500m/turn
In short, one cannot just undo the concept of vehicles having a running and a walking speed without seriously rewriting the core rules. As far as I can tell, the optional chase combat rules does nothing to remedy this...
Putting up an Errata thread is a daunting task. ::)
I'm very thankful he's been able to answer all he can.Yeah, Wakshaani is kind of a rock star for good responsiveness and positive interaction with the community. It seems like he had a lot of things noted down from his playtesting and stuff that the editors failed to see were missing. As a freelancer, he's doing a great job and above and beyond what I'd expect. If anything, I'd expect things like Errata threads and whatnot to be run by actual Catalyst employees rather than freelancers.
NAME | HANDL | SPEED | ACCEL | BODY | ARMOR | PILOT | SENS | AVAIL | COST | REF |
Shiawase Kanmushi (Micro) | 4 | 0G | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 3 | 8 | 1,000¥ | p. 465, SR5 |
S-B Microskimmer (Micro) | 3 | 1R | 1 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 6 | 1,000¥ | p. 465, SR5 |
Horizon Flying Eye (Mini) | 4 | 1R | 1 | 1(1) | 0 | 2 | 3 | 8 | 2,000¥ | p. 465, SR5 |
MCT Fly-Spy (Mini) | 4 | 1R | 1 | 1(1) | 0 | 2 | 3 | 0 | 2,000¥ | p. 466, SR5 |
Aztechnology Crawler (Mini) | 3 | 1G | 1 | 1(1) | 0 | 3 | 2 | 4 | 2,000¥ | p. 466, SR5 |
Renraku Scuttler (Mini) | 4 | 1G | 1 | 1(0) | 0 | 2 | 2 | 8 | 8,000¥ | |
Lockheed Optic-X2 (Small) | 4 | 4R | 2 | 2(1) | 3 | 3 | 3 | 10 | 21,000¥ | p. 466, SR5 |
Ares Mercury (Small) | 4/- | 1G | 1 | 2(1) | 0 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 1,000¥ | |
Ares Sentry V (Small) | 4/- | 1G | 1 | 2(0) | 6 | 3 | 2 | 4R | 4,000¥ | |
F-B Bumblebee (Medium) | 4 | 0R | 0 | 3(0) | 12 | 3 | 3 | 12F | 25,000¥ | p. 23, Nothing Personal |
Ares Duelist (Large) | 4 | 1G | 1 | 4(0) | 9 | 3 | 2 | 8R | 8,000¥ | p. 466, SR5 |
GM-Nissan Doberman (Large) | 3 | 2G | 1 | 4(4) | 9 | 3 | 3 | 4R | 8,000¥ | p. 466, SR5 |
MCT-Nissan Roto-Drone (Large) | 4 | 2R | 1 | 4(4) | 6 | 3 | 3 | 6 | 8,000¥ | p. 466, SR5 |
Aeroquip Dustoff (Large) | 4 | 4R | 2 | 4(1) | 6 | 4 | 3 | 10R | 40,000¥ | p. 23, B&B |
Caduceus 7 (Large) | 4 | 2G | 1 | 5(2) | 3 | 2 | 1 | 12R | 16,500¥ | p. 23, B&B |
NAME | HANDL | SPEED | ACCEL | BODY | ARMOR | PILOT | SENS | AVAIL | COST | REF |
Ammo Drone (Small Drone) | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 5 | 3,000¥ | p. 189, HT |
Reloading Drone (Medium Drone) | 4 | 3 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 6R | 4,500¥ | p. 189, HT |
Mitsuhama Akiyama (Medium Drone) | 5 | 3 | 2 | 4 | 6 | 3 | 3 | 24F | 200,000¥ | p. 190, HT |
Sparring Drone (Large Drone) | 3 | 2 | 2 | 4 | 2 (Special) | 3 | 3 | 6 | 5,000¥ | p. 190, HT |
MCT Iron Dragon (Large) | 5 | 5 | 3 | 6 | 14 | 4 | 4 | - | - | p. 227, Lockdown |
Bust-A-Move 2nd Gen (Medium) | 4 | 3 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 2 | - | 700-1,500¥ | p. 187, Stolen Souls |
Cyberspace Designs Dragonfly (Small) | 4 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 3 | 2 | 12R | 2,500¥ | p. 187, Stolen Souls |
GMC Snath'n'Grab (Large) | 3 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 12F | 8,000¥ | p. 187, Stolen Souls |
Modified Dassault Janitorial Drone (Large) | 2 | 2 | 2 | 10 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 8 | 10,000¥ | p. 187, Stolen Souls |
Transys Office Maid (Medium) | 3 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 0 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 8,000¥ | p. 187, Stolen Souls |
Modified Renraku Manservant-3 (Large) | 2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 5 | 3 | 3 | 14F | 9,000¥ | p. 187, Stolen Souls |
This thread (http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=22956.msg422745#msg422745) also brought up the question about underbarrel grenade launchers (and underbarrel weapons in general). Why are these specified on the Standard size mount (3 MP)? Does an Ares Alpha need both a Large (4 MP, assault rifle) and a Standard (3 MP, under-barrel grenade launcher) mount, for a total of 7MP? Or is it something else entirely.
Surely we've all had players who bring a single-shot hold out pistol using an assault cannon round?
Only in recent editions. SR3s Cannon Companion allows you to craft custom weapons, including, you guessed it, a hold out with a single assault cannon round ;)Surely we've all had players who bring a single-shot hold out pistol using an assault cannon round?
Generally not, since that's impossible.
Also, don't forget that you can dress an Anthro drone in armor and it will then use *eiher* the armor *or* it's own... they don't stack. (Sorry!) ... that one's called out specifically in their section. :)
The mess with the speed is one of the main reasons why I have been so reluctant to use Drones and Vehicles in Tactical Combat, even as GM. And this is sad: Nothing´s more Sci-Fi than Drones.But how am I supposed to do that if can´t really tell how these little beasts move? Let alone how to make them a threat...
On page 159 under Armor, the maximum armor a vehicle can have is described as base armor plus body. However, in the protection modifications table obvious armor costs ratingx2 mod slots and concealed armor costs rating x 3 slots. This means the maxi armor for a vehicle is base armor plus body/2 for obvious armor and base armor plus body/3 for concealed armor. This is a non trivial difference.Yeah. I was building out my Tanked Up Ford Americar and noticed this. One part says Armor + Body and the other ends up being Armor + Body/2 or Armor + Body/3, which means you can't really get a ridiculously tank Ford Americar for driving through the CZ.
On page 159 under Armor, the maximum armor a vehicle can have is described as base armor plus body. However, in the protection modifications table obvious armor costs ratingx2 mod slots and concealed armor costs rating x 3 slots. This means the maxi armor for a vehicle is base armor plus body/2 for obvious armor and base armor plus body/3 for concealed armor. This is a non trivial difference.
On page 159 under Armor, the maximum armor a vehicle can have is described as base armor plus body. However, in the protection modifications table obvious armor costs ratingx2 mod slots and concealed armor costs rating x 3 slots. This means the maxi armor for a vehicle is base armor plus body/2 for obvious armor and base armor plus body/3 for concealed armor. This is a non trivial difference.Yeah. I was building out my Tanked Up Ford Americar and noticed this. One part says Armor + Body and the other ends up being Armor + Body/2 or Armor + Body/3, which means you can't really get a ridiculously tank Ford Americar for driving through the CZ.
An Armorer autosoft suite is included with the drone, allowing it to reload all non-forbidden firearms. Forbidden firearms require an illegal Armorer autosoft costing 250 nuyen.
An Armorer autosoft suite is included with the drone, allowing it to reload all non-forbidden firearms.Any reloading drone owner can implement any armourer action, so long as it's a reloading action.
thanks to their pair of articulated arms (which makes them incidentally superior to the evo proletarian in practically every way)Manipulator Arms, whatever that means to your GM. I wouldn't see the need for anything fancy on a 4,500¥ drone that only deals with reloading.
Could it be possible to take this one step further and have an errata pdf containing a fixed table for drones (and vehicles) from all the books?
[cut]
Also, any chance of getting updated stats for some of the drones that appear in missions and adventures, like the ones in Hard Target (see below), Lockdown, and Stolen Souls?
[cut]
Wakshaani, your updated stats drop the Crawler from a small drone to a Mini drone, with a rather dramatic reduction to the drone's body (3->1), making it much more limited in terms of what it could mount. The core version could mount an assault rifle, the updated version can mount up to a light pistol, or a machine pistol if you downgrade another stat. There is no other suitable body 3 small drone to replace it - you might be able to gut a Shamus or MCT Tunneler to get close, but even then the addition of Gecko Grips would put you over in points.
Correction, it is significantly different stats.
HANDL SPEED ACCEL BODY ARM PILOT SENS SEATS AVAIL COST
P.77 version: 4/4 4 2 24 14 6 7. 9. 18R 225,000¥
Table: Rhino 4/4 4. 2. 17 18. 4. 4. 9 18R 225,000¥
Not only is there a drop in body by 7, but pilot by 2 (6 is kinda high) and sensors by 3 (7 is extremely high). While armor went up by 4, that doesn't make up for the massive loss to body. So Wak, which is correct and then please fix it in your errata/printing if you can.
Thanks for the clarification Herr.
So Wak did you post the fixed drone stats somewhere?
@Wakshaani, this is how you generate tables using forumcode (quote my post if you want to see details; you can also find tons of BBCode table generators online):
(snip)
This thread (http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=22956.msg422745#msg422745) also brought up the question about underbarrel grenade launchers (and underbarrel weapons in general). Why are these specified on the Standard size mount (3 MP)? Does an Ares Alpha need both a Large (4 MP, assault rifle) and a Standard (3 MP, under-barrel grenade launcher) mount, for a total of 7MP? Or is it something else entirely.
Thanks for the clarification Herr.
So Wak did you post the fixed drone stats somewhere?
Some, but not all. I haven't heard back if certain things were intended or not, and I don't like jumping the gun and stating something without going upstairs. I can talk about soem stuff *I* did, but talking about *other* stuff, I'm more careful about. Not telepathic, despite a love of tuna fish. :D
Which ones, in particular, do you have questions about? I'll do what I can!
Correction, it is significantly different stats.
HANDL SPEED ACCEL BODY ARM PILOT SENS SEATS AVAIL COST
P.77 version: 4/4 4 2 24 14 6 7. 9. 18R 225,000¥
Table: Rhino 4/4 4. 2. 17 18. 4. 4. 9 18R 225,000¥
Not only is there a drop in body by 7, but pilot by 2 (6 is kinda high) and sensors by 3 (7 is extremely high). While armor went up by 4, that doesn't make up for the massive loss to body. So Wak, which is correct and then please fix it in your errata/printing if you can.
In this instance, the chart is correct, not the original section. (Not sure why that change didn't get in, but the chart adjustments were the very final thing adjusted. Which is also why the shifted columns weren't caught, I do believe!)
(Not my chapter, by the by, I just happened to see that alteration when it went in!)
I still can't load them with both an assault rifle and gecko tips. I suppose that the main problem is that mounting an AR now takes 4 mod points instead of 3. The useful use case with the bod 3 Crawler was that I could drop Bod to 2 for 2(4), then drop another stat to get 5 total mod points. Add 3 armor for 0 mod points and then 4 for the "large" mount and 1 for gecko tips. The end result is a flexible vehicle defense/offense system that has a soak of 8 dice (rather than 2). I just like the idea of a pair of these walking along the outside of an Ares Roadmaster, using the van for cover while returning fire on pursuers.
Wakshaani, your updated stats drop the Crawler from a small drone to a Mini drone, with a rather dramatic reduction to the drone's body (3->1), making it much more limited in terms of what it could mount. The core version could mount an assault rifle, the updated version can mount up to a light pistol, or a machine pistol if you downgrade another stat. There is no other suitable body 3 small drone to replace it - you might be able to gut a Shamus or MCT Tunneler to get close, but even then the addition of Gecko Grips would put you over in points.
The Crawler's traditionally been a Mini drone over the past few editions. I'm not certain why it got enlarged for SR core, but I wanted to put it back where it's supposed to be. You can grab one of the MCT Seven for a drone with 3 mod points, if you need a lil' gunny sidekick. They're fragile (Bod 2 base, modified to 1(3), but handy for modders. (Man, I have a lot of thread to catch up on!)
Looks like it got squeezed out by the Pilot chart. Something else for teh errata.
(From the original writing)
***
The Pilot program determines the Rating of the drone as a whole, serves as the primary source of attributes for skill tests, serves as a cap on the highest rating Autosoft the drone can run, and more. Is there any reason that it’s in such high demand? Civilian Pilot programs are generally rating 2 (or, rarely, 1), restricted security Pilots are 3-4, while military-grade Pilots (5-6) are forbidden for general use. Cost and availability is shown on the chart below:
RATING AVAIL COST
1 4 100$
2 - 400$
3 8R 1800$
4 12R 3200$
5 16F 10,000$
6 24F 20,000$
(Due to advancements in Pilot programs, a Pilot may now operate as many Autosofts as its Rating, rather than half its Rating (rounded up) as per SR5. )
***
I had to go check to find that out! I was *wondering* why no one was talking about this! It's an important thing!
A Pilot program may not run an autosoft of a higher Rating than itself (meaning a Rating 3 Pilot may run an Autosoft with a Rating of 1, 2, or 3, but not 4 or higher). When using a rigger command console, the console may run a higher-Rating autosoft and share that with the drone, allowing it to exceed its normal capabilities.
The drone's Pilot is always ignored as a cap when using autosofts running on the RCC, even without swarm. So in your example, the highest autosoft rating is 5.Ah, but my question isn't about autosofts running on the RCC; Swarm specifically mentions that drones in the swarm can share autosofts running on the drone. But since they are now counting as having a higher pilot rating, can they also run higher rating autosofts directly on the drone?Quote from: Rigger 5.0
A Pilot program may not run an autosoft of a higher Rating than itself (meaning a Rating 3 Pilot may run an Autosoft with a Rating of 1, 2, or 3, but not 4 or higher). When using a rigger command console, the console may run a higher-Rating autosoft and share that with the drone, allowing it to exceed its normal capabilities.
...and...
Its Pilot rating is equal to the highest Pilot rating of its member drones, or the Device Rating of the RCC, whichever is higher.
So, technically, by RAW, a drone in the swarm gets the best Pilot Rating available and thus Device Rating, attributes, and autosoft cap that is the better of either the RCC DR or the highest pilot in the swarm. Again, probably not RAI, but in the absence of clarification, it's what we've got.
The Pilot program determines the Rating of the drone as a whole, serves as the primary source of attributes for skill tests, serves as a cap on the highest rating autosoft the drone can run, and more
Well, the question would be if you can actually install a soft the drone can't actually run, in the hopes you'll later link it to enough processing power.There is no restriction on what you can install, I think, from this line in Rigger 5.0:
Remember also that an autosoft is designed for only a single drone; you cannot slot a Clearsoft autosoft designed for an Az- technology Crawler into an Evo Proletarian. (Well, you can; it just doesn’t do anything.)So apparently you can "slot" whatever you like, it just won't run if the requirements aren't met. The requirements being: sufficient Pilot/RCC rating, appropriate drone/weapon model (not required if running on RCC), proper registration (each autosoft is registered to one and only one device but if the registered device is an RCC then it may be shared per the RCC Sharing rules), and of course a functional processor to run on (i.e. a non-full Matrix and Physical damage track and the drone/RCC is powered on). So you can load a rating 5 autosoft on a Pilot 2 drone and it will just sit there dormant until it joins a swarm on a rating 5 RCC (or with a rating 5 pilot drone as a member), at which point it can run if you choose.
Does anyone know if and when they will write up an official errata and release it?
Maybe I'm missing something here, but on p. 174 under "Vehicle Actions" it says that "each vehicle action describes the threshold, along with the modifiers added".
However, with each and every vehicle test on the following pages, there are only mentioned the modifiers (mostly terrain and speed). The threshold itself (according to the table in the core book, p. 199) is completely left out.
Cheers
Ruffio
Minotaur is missing entirely from page 53.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but on p. 174 under "Vehicle Actions" it says that "each vehicle action describes the threshold, along with the modifiers added".
However, with each and every vehicle test on the following pages, there are only mentioned the modifiers (mostly terrain and speed). The threshold itself (according to the table in the core book, p. 199) is completely left out.
Cheers
Ruffio
the thresholds are there listed in brackets ( threshold) . for example the threshold for pulling a bootlegger turn is the terrain modifier plus the speed of the target vehicle while the threshold for catch up/break away is equal to the terrain modifier plus the difference in speed between the acting vehicle and the target vehicle
The vehicle modification rules are meant for all vehicles. The drone modification chapter has optional rules for easier (sort of^^) drone modification...
So i see no problems using modifications from the vehicle mod chapter with drones. (Not even when using the drone modification rules, but that may not be 100% RAW).
Btw... If i remember correctly, the newest Missions FAQ has a complete list of vehicle modifications allowed in drones.
I don't think that this will show correctly, as I don't know how to format forumcode to show tabs like a document. Hrm. Let's try this button here...
MICRO DRONE HANDL SPEED ACCEL BODY ARMOR PILOT SEN AVAIL COST
Shiawase Kanmushi 4 0G 0 0 0 2 3 8 1000$
S-B Microskimmer 3 1R 1 0 0 2 2 6 1000$
I don't think that this will show correctly, as I don't know how to format forumcode to show tabs like a document. Hrm. Let's try this button here...
MICRO DRONE HANDL SPEED ACCEL BODY ARMOR PILOT SEN AVAIL COST
Shiawase Kanmushi 4 0G 0 0 0 2 3 8 1000$
S-B Microskimmer 3 1R 1 0 0 2 2 6 1000$
Going through all 17 pages slowly, but I didn't see the answer, is it safe to guess the 0 Body is 0 Mod points? 0 (0) ?
I like my little spider drones, and Missions rules say they can have a max realistic feature of 4, but it seems that means taking a - 1 to each stat with a number.... and unless I can take a -1 Availability I'm still short.
The anthro drones don't seem to have a size category assigned.
Based on other books, most should probably be Large with the exception of those noted to be smaller like the Little Buddy.
-k
I don't think that this will show correctly, as I don't know how to format forumcode to show tabs like a document. Hrm. Let's try this button here...
MICRO DRONE HANDL SPEED ACCEL BODY ARMOR PILOT SEN AVAIL COST
Shiawase Kanmushi 4 0G 0 0 0 2 3 8 1000$
S-B Microskimmer 3 1R 1 0 0 2 2 6 1000$
Going through all 17 pages slowly, but I didn't see the answer, is it safe to guess the 0 Body is 0 Mod points? 0 (0) ?
I like my little spider drones, and Missions rules say they can have a max realistic feature of 4, but it seems that means taking a - 1 to each stat with a number.... and unless I can take a -1 Availability I'm still short.
D'oh! They DON'T have a size listed, do they?
I'd need to grab my notes, but the Little Buddy should be Small, the Juan, iDoll, and Secretary should be Medium (The sec is human-sized, just much heavier than you'd expect), with the construction bot being Large. The Juggernaught would fall into Huge, if only just. It's right on the cutting edge between "A really big large and a really small Huge", and I tend to default to the latter.)
As a side-note, remember that while you get a point for lowering *A* stat, if you lower more stats, you don't get more points! You can only get +1 no matter how much worse you make the drone. That was very much by design.
Pretty true. (Well, minus the Pixie.)
I should see if I can find the (really bad) sketch I did for the Juan. I'm pretty sure I stuck my stab at a cover up. Which was super-bad. :)
Yes a BOD of 0 would mean 0 MOD points, but I was just looking things over and unless I missed something (And please point out if I did) Realistic features does not have a MOD point cost, at least, I see no such cost is listed.
. It would have been better if the drone mods were just folded into the regular mods and simply a note added "Unlike other vehicles, drones only get one pool of mod slots equal to their body."
-k
No, they count as "You have three extra points that can only be spent on weapons" ... it's a special power for just that drone. :)
So under the the standard modding rules a roto-drone gets 7 weapon modding slots but when using the drone modding rules it gets 3 extra points that can only be spent on weapon mounts?
Okay. Add "the first point of increase, or first three points for armor, costs zero mod slots. Additional increases beyond this are calculated as normal". Maybe one or two other tweaks. Suddenly we go from an entire chapter down to one extra paragraph needed for drones, and effectively get the same results without creating yet another system on top of a game that already has a massive number of rules systems.. It would have been better if the drone mods were just folded into the regular mods and simply a note added "Unlike other vehicles, drones only get one pool of mod slots equal to their body."
that would be horrible in my opinion. it would make it impossible to give all but the largest of drone any decent mods. a simple +1 speed boost cost 5 mod points under the standard rules. And good luck giving drone any decent extra armor which some already feel are to fragile ,just giving a roto-drone 1 extra point of additional armor will cost 2 of its 4 body points. under the optional drone modding rule I can add 9 extra points of armor for the same price . if you count the 3 extra points intended for weapon slots you'll even have enough room for a large drone weapon mount and you'll still be able to up all its other stats by 1 point for free. I know what rules I 'll be using for drone modification
Okay. Add "the first point of increase, or first three points for armor, costs zero mod slots. Additional increases beyond this are calculated as normal". Maybe one or two other tweaks. Suddenly we go from an entire chapter down to one extra paragraph needed for drones, and effectively get the same results without creating yet another system on top of a game that already has a massive number of rules systems.. It would have been better if the drone mods were just folded into the regular mods and simply a note added "Unlike other vehicles, drones only get one pool of mod slots equal to their body."
that would be horrible in my opinion. it would make it impossible to give all but the largest of drone any decent mods. a simple +1 speed boost cost 5 mod points under the standard rules. And good luck giving drone any decent extra armor which some already feel are to fragile ,just giving a roto-drone 1 extra point of additional armor will cost 2 of its 4 body points. under the optional drone modding rule I can add 9 extra points of armor for the same price . if you count the 3 extra points intended for weapon slots you'll even have enough room for a large drone weapon mount and you'll still be able to up all its other stats by 1 point for free. I know what rules I 'll be using for drone modification
From a design efficiency point of view, that whole optional rule chapter feels like an exercise in padding the word count.
-k
Okay. Add "the first point of increase, or first three points for armor, costs zero mod slots. Additional increases beyond this are calculated as normal". Maybe one or two other tweaks. Suddenly we go from an entire chapter down to one extra paragraph needed for drones, and effectively get the same results without creating yet another system on top of a game that already has a massive number of rules systems.. It would have been better if the drone mods were just folded into the regular mods and simply a note added "Unlike other vehicles, drones only get one pool of mod slots equal to their body."
that would be horrible in my opinion. it would make it impossible to give all but the largest of drone any decent mods. a simple +1 speed boost cost 5 mod points under the standard rules. And good luck giving drone any decent extra armor which some already feel are to fragile ,just giving a roto-drone 1 extra point of additional armor will cost 2 of its 4 body points. under the optional drone modding rule I can add 9 extra points of armor for the same price . if you count the 3 extra points intended for weapon slots you'll even have enough room for a large drone weapon mount and you'll still be able to up all its other stats by 1 point for free. I know what rules I 'll be using for drone modification
From a design efficiency point of view, that whole optional rule chapter feels like an exercise in padding the word count.
-k
It probably would have been easier to have the modding drones be an optional set of rules that comes after the rest of the modding rules. Possibly mentioned in the beginning of the chapter (by using a side-bar or some-such), but then just use a couple of pages to note the differences and maybe have an extra chart noting the different costs.
I always found it odd that the "optional" rules for modding drones came before the full rules, which the drone rules partially use...
on another note what is the range of motion suppose to be on drone weapon mounts? Fixed,flexible or turreted?
Since rules for drone combat "are the same as those for regular flesh-and-blood characters", (see page 270 of SR5), the question about weapon mount mobility is pretty much moot; simply assume they can point their weapon in the desired direction as normal metahumans.
I couldn't tell you about the vehicle rules as I didn't work on 'em. :) Under the drone mod rules, drone weapons are fixed, but they're so mobile that it doesn't really matter. I should make a note about turrets for larger ones for the errata list, tho.
Page 30: Confuse Pilot uses Attack as the Limit (best game mechanic ever *choke*), yet the highest Attack value RCCs can have is 1 (unless RCCs can take Kommlink dongles, which isn´t clearly stated anywhere). So yeah, it´s not only a Rigger Action, but the noise reduction Bonus seems pretty pointless if the highest possibly number of hits with a RCC is one. Also, it´s not clear what happens after the Drone´s Pilot test.
Where did you get your book from? according to mine confuse pilot uses data processing as the limit.
Where did you get your book from? according to mine confuse pilot uses data processing as the limit.
It´s the pdf version. It may have been fixed in the printed and the localized versions.
Would depend on the publication date of each book, really.Where did you get your book from? according to mine confuse pilot uses data processing as the limit.
It´s the pdf version. It may have been fixed in the printed and the localized versions.
I have the printed north American edition and it clearly says it uses data process so your PDF is wrong.
What are the costs for drone weapon mounts? I think they were lists somewhere on the forum but my search-fu is weak. or am I wrong and the prices were never posted.
Looks like it got squeezed out by the Pilot chart. Something else for teh errata.
(From the original writing)
***
The Pilot program determines the Rating of the drone as a whole, serves as the primary source of attributes for skill tests, serves as a cap on the highest rating Autosoft the drone can run, and more. Is there any reason that it’s in such high demand? Civilian Pilot programs are generally rating 2 (or, rarely, 1), restricted security Pilots are 3-4, while military-grade Pilots (5-6) are forbidden for general use. Cost and availability is shown on the chart below:
RATING AVAIL COST
1 4 100$
2 - 400$
3 8R 1800$
4 12R 3200$
5 16F 10,000$
6 24F 20,000$
(Due to advancements in Pilot programs, a Pilot may now operate as many Autosofts as its Rating, rather than half its Rating (rounded up) as per SR5. )
***
I had to go check to find that out! I was *wondering* why no one was talking about this! It's an important thing!
Copy-Paste to try and get 'em all in one location.
SlashXVI 3 points 7 hours ago*
...
•The Yamaha Kabuyara (p.44) might have a wrong statline. As it is right now it is as good or worse than the Suzuki Mirage (core) in every category while beeing twice as expensive and not rocking any upgrades to warrant the price difference.
...
Copy-Paste to try and get 'em all in one location.
SlashXVI 3 points 7 hours ago*
...
•The Yamaha Kabuyara (p.44) might have a wrong statline. As it is right now it is as good or worse than the Suzuki Mirage (core) in every category while beeing twice as expensive and not rocking any upgrades to warrant the price difference.
...
Has a ruling/fix been made on this? Skimmed through 20 pages of thread and found no other mention.
Yup (http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=24571.msg458003#msg458003)Copy-Paste to try and get 'em all in one location.
SlashXVI 3 points 7 hours ago*
...
•The Yamaha Kabuyara (p.44) might have a wrong statline. As it is right now it is as good or worse than the Suzuki Mirage (core) in every category while beeing twice as expensive and not rocking any upgrades to warrant the price difference.
...
Has a ruling/fix been made on this? Skimmed through 20 pages of thread and found no other mention.
Looking at the german pdf I have aquired by now: the statblock for the Kaburaya is different from what was in the english one. Compared to the Mirage it now has one additional acceleration and two less armor, all other stats are identical, including the price(!!!)
The Ram Plate doesn't appear to have a price on a table either.
The Ram Plate doesn't appear to have a price on a table either.
I've noticed that this hasn't gotten any attention since it was posted, which I found frustrating because I wanted to know the price too. In fact, I've been so frustrated that I looked through older editions until I found what I cost back then so I could use that cost for 5e. To save you all the trouble of looking, here's the 4e stats according to page 141 of Arsenal:
Mod Slots: 1
Threshold: 8
Tools: Shop
Cost: Body X 250¥
Availability: 6R
Special Skill: -
Dang, you Germans always get the errata first, and in the sourcebooks at that. I guess that one extra editing process you get when translating the book really makes a difference.
Looks like it got squeezed out by the Pilot chart. Something else for teh errata.
(From the original writing)
***
The Pilot program determines the Rating of the drone as a whole, serves as the primary source of attributes for skill tests, serves as a cap on the highest rating Autosoft the drone can run, and more. Is there any reason that it’s in such high demand? Civilian Pilot programs are generally rating 2 (or, rarely, 1), restricted security Pilots are 3-4, while military-grade Pilots (5-6) are forbidden for general use. Cost and availability is shown on the chart below:
RATING AVAIL COST
1 4 100$
2 - 400$
3 8R 1800$
4 12R 3200$
5 16F 10,000$
6 24F 20,000$
(Due to advancements in Pilot programs, a Pilot may now operate as many Autosofts as its Rating, rather than half its Rating (rounded up) as per SR5. )
***
I had to go check to find that out! I was *wondering* why no one was talking about this! It's an important thing!
The BMW Teufelkatze (Pg71) lists for standard equipment "Signature Dampening." The flavor text did not provide contextual clues other than the word "electronic." There is no "Signature Dampening" listed in the modification rules. There are, however, 2 mods that it could possibly mean: Signature Masking, or Electromagnetic Shielding. The only contextual clue is the lack of a listed rating (Signature Masking is available in Ratings).
Does the German Edition provide any insight?
Edit: My initial post incorrectly labeled one mod as "Signal Dampening."
Rigger 5.0 Page 167
"PILOT ENHANCEMENT
More than just another program, vehicle Pilot programs are some of the most sophisticated software programs
in use today. Enhancing a drone’s Pilot program takes more than just loading a new program: select chips
on the hardware set are replaced and upgraded, new communication channels are installed to enhance information gathering, and control systems are upgraded to provide improved sensitivity and additional maneuvering options. Unlike other modifications, the Pilot enhancement replaces the Pilot Rating of the vehicle, rather than adding to its existing Rating. A Pilot program can have a Rating of 1 to 9"
It switches from talking about Vehicles to Drones in the second sentence. It then lists the max rating for Pilot Programs as 9. And this is only the most recent and a relatively minor point of confusion.
I am sorry, but I am finding it impossible to play this game due to the seemingly endless errata, ambiguity and rules contradictions.
At some point, you have to stop selling these books. Stop printing them. Stop selling them. And go back and fix them.
P=Propeller and therefore identical to R=RotorOk,thanks,chummer.But how fast the "P"? I know W、R、G、J. But how about P?
The BMW Blitzkrieg comes equipped with a minigun (front) and an assault rifle (back) yet the stats say two heavy mounts only.
Micro drone racks can hold up to ten micro drones,
mini drone racks can carry a drone of up to Mini size,
small drone racks can carry up to a Small drone, medium drone racks can carry up to a Medium drone, and
large drone racks can carry (you guessed it) up to a
Large drone
Micro drone racks can hold up to ten micro drones,
mini drone racks can carry one drone of up to Mini size,
small drone racks can carry up to one Small drone, medium drone racks can carry up to one Medium drone, and
large drone racks can carry (you guessed it) up to one
Large drone
Micro drone racks can hold up to ten micro drones,
mini drone racks can carry ten drones of up to Mini size,
small drone racks can carry up to ten Small drones , medium drone racks can carry up to ten Medium drones , and
large drone racks can carry (you guessed it) up to ten
Large drones
Micro drone racks can hold up to ten micro drones,
mini drone racks can carry ten drones of micro or Mini size,
small drone racks can carry up to ten micro, mini, or Small drone, medium drone racks can carry 10 of any sized drone that is Medium or smaller, and
large drone racks can carry (you guessed it) up to ten drone of any size (except huge)
It does also mean that RAW, a large drone rack can only hold a single micro drone which is kind of odd.
Question I asked in another thread but asking here in the hopes of getting a official response . under the optional drone modding rules does upgrading a drones pilot rating use up mod points? The German edition has a table that suggests that pilot upgrades are free but I'm wondering if that was the original intention.
http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=24394.msg454569#msg454569
As with any drone, first one's free, but you start coting slots after that. (1 point is essentially just better software, but more than that, you have to start adding bigger parts for processing, more onboard memory, etc etc etc.) It's the Golden Rule of DroneStats. :)
What about the Ares Duelist? Also a Medium? The picture at the back of the Rigger 5.0 book shows them as about the size of the elf leading them, though they'd certainly be heavier. Although, most Medium drones have a Body of 3 and the Duelist has a 4.
Making the upper end of pilot upgrades take up mod points in addition to their exorbitant ¥ costs would indeed be rough.
That said, PingGuy, you seem to have a couple of things just a little bit mixed up.
Sensor locks don't add dice to your attack roll. What it does is apply a penalty to the target's defense equal to net hits on the E-War / Perception + Int [Sensors] vs Sneaking + Agi (if vs meatbags), Evasion + Pilot (if vs autopilots), or Piloting + Rea (if vs controlled vehicles).
2 reasons why this is important:
- Not adding to your attack means it doesn't stack with your edge use
- Since it's resisted, you won't even keep your statistical average, nevermind a full 6.
The other thing is that while autopilots need smartsoft, all the operator should need is smartlink in the drone's sensors to benefit (though this is probably limited to +1 since there's no essence involved.)
@Jack_SpadeJust keep in mind the German edition occasionally makes up their own fixes, so not guaranteed to match official errata once they arrive.
Thanks for the info. Any idea when there will be an official errata released for this book?