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Which devices you may or may not combine in in a SR6 PAN

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Xenon

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« on: <11-23-19/0743:41> »
edit. This turned out to be a wall of text....

TL;DR

OK combinations:

Commlink + any optional combination of Control Rig and/or Cyberjack
RCC + any optional combination of Control Rig and/or Cyberjack
Cyberdeck + any optional combination of Control Rig and/or Cyberjack


NOT OK combinations:

Any combination that does not include ONE out of Commlink / RCC / Cyberdeck
(you can have multiple of them but you must use no more and no less than one of them at a time)



There does not seem to be clear which devices you may or may not combine - and also which devices you are allowed to combine but doesn't really make any sense since you don't gain any benefit from it. Rather than having this discussion deep in multiple threads lets devote one thread for it.

So, let us try to break it down and have a discussion about it :-)


Normal cases (as I read it when adding up all the rules I could find; note that I am the first to admit that I might have got some details wrong so please dissect it and challenge it):

A normal user will probably just use a commlink. The commlink will be the link to the matrix and provide the user with the D/F attribute array. The Data Processing rating of the commlink let the user slave a small number of wireless enabled devices to form a PAN. The Firewall rating of the commlink provide the user with protection against matrix threats. A commlink does not by default have a sim module, but it can be installed and the sim-module can also be upgraded for hot-sim (cost for both can be found in the Aug errata). In order to enter VR you also need DNI which a commlink only provide by itself in case it is implanted as head-ware. A normal user normally would get DNI by wearing trodes or by implanting a datajack. The Device Rating of the commlink provide the user with a matrix condition monitor track. If the commlink is bricked the user is dumped from the matrix, but also if the user is in VR while the device that provide the user with DNI (normally trodes or datajack) is bricked the user will also be dumped.

A normal rigger will probably use a RCC + control rig implant combination. The RCC will be the link to the matrix and provide the rigger with the D/F attribute array. The Data Processing rating of the RCC let the rigger slave a small number of wireless enabled devices. The Firewall rating of the RCC provide the rigger with protection against matrix threats. RCC does not come with a sim-module or DNI of its own (both of them are provided by the control rig implant), so in order to enter VR (and also in order to jump into vehicles and drones) a normal rigger would also have a control rig implant. The Device Rating of the RCC let the rigger slave a moderate number of Drones (which mean riggers seem to have, by far, the biggest PANs) and it also provide the rigger with a matrix condition monitor track. If the RCC is bricked the rigger is dumped from the matrix, but also if the rigger is in VR while the control rig implant (which provide the rigger with DNI and also hold the sim module) is bricked then the rigger will also be dumped.

A normal decker will probably use a cyberdeck + cyberjack combination. This combination of devices will be the link to the matrix and provide the decker with the A/S + D/F attribute array. The Attack and Sleaze rating of the cyberdeck let the decker take hostile matrix actions. The cyberdeck also let the decker take matrix perception tests as minor actions and the sim module of the cyberdeck let the decker (together with DNI) enter both cold-sim and hot-sim VR. The Data Processing rating of the cyberjack let the decker slave a small number of wireless enabled devices to form a PAN. The Firewall rating of the cyberjack provide the decker with protection against matrix threats. The Device Rating of the cyberdeck (the cyberjack does not come with a listed device rating) provide the decker with a matrix condition monitor track. If the cyberdeck is is bricked the decker is dumped from the matrix, but also if the rigger is in VR while the cyberjack implant (which provide the decker with DNI) is bricked then the decker will also be dumped (unless perhaps the decker got a backup device that provide DNI, such as a datajack or by wearing trodes).



Now having that out of the way, lets talk about what devices that make sense to combine combine and whatnot.


First of all it seem to be perfectly fine to combine a control rig implant with a commlink. The control rig will provide the user with both DNI and a sim module which let the user enter VR (without trodes or a datajack implant) and also jump into vehicles and drones. This could be a budget rigger option, but it comes with a lot of drawbacks. There will be no sharing of autosofts, can't slave additional drones, no jumping directly between drones, no noise reduction etc.

It seem to be perfectly fine to combine a control rig implant with a cyberdeck + cyberjack combination. The benefit of this is that the decker can now jump into vehicles and drones (including enemy vehicles and drones that the decker hacked).

It seem to be perfectly fine to just use a RCC (without a control rig implant). However since the RCC does not come with a sim module the rigger can only ever use this in AR mode. Adding trodes, a datajack or a cyberjack will only provide the rigger with DNI, the rigger will will still lack a sim module. And of course without a control rig and the rigger also cannot jump into vehicles and drones. But the rigger still have a matrix persona with a matrix condition monitor, the rigger still have a D/F matrix array, the rigger still get to slave drones, reduce noise, share autosofts etc.



The rest of the post is under the assumption that that your matrix persona is based upon your cyberdeck and not your cyberjack -- because your cyberdeck have a device rating while your cyberjack does not [a fact I didn't notice until today] and that it is the the device rating of your cyberdeck that provide your matrix persona with matrix condition monitor track and if your matrix persona / your cyberdeck is bricked you will be dumped from the matrix - while you don't seem to be dumped if your cyberjack is bricked (but without your cyberjack you no longer have access to edge actions and the D/F array).


With the above assumption it also seem to be perfectly fine to use just a cyberdeck (without a cyberjack). However, the cyberdeck does not come with an D/F array of its own. Without a Data Processing rating a decker no longer have the option slave devices and the VR initiative will also suffer (and the decker also need to get DNI from some other source, for example by wearing trodes or having a datajack implant). Without a Firewall rating the decker no longer have any protection against matrix threats. And without a cyberjack the decker also no longer have the option to take edge actions. But the decker still have a matrix condition monitor, A/F array which let the decker take most matrix actions and the decker can still run hacking programs etc.

It also seem to be perfectly fine to use a cyberdeck (without a cyberjack) together with a control rig implant. The decker still have the above drawbacks of not having a cyberjack but the benefits of this combination is that the control rig will supply the decker with DNI and also the option to jump into vehicles and drones (that maybe the hacker illegally gained access to).

And it seem to be perfectly fine to combine a cyberjack implant with a commlink. The matrix persona for a decker is normally based on the device rating of the cyberdeck (as the cyberjack does not come with a device rating of its own) which mean that in this combination the user would still base his matrix persona on his commlink. That the matrix condition monitor of his matrix persona will still be based on his commlink and if the commlink is bricked then he will be dumped from the matrix. But that he now have the option to take edge actions as well as use (or combine) the D/F array of the cyberjack instead (or together with) the D/F array of the commlink.

It also seem to be perfectly fine to combine a cyberjack implant with a RCC. That the matrix condition monitor of a rigger's matrix persona will still be based on his RCC and if the RCC is bricked then he will be dumped from the matrix. But that the rigger now have the option to take edge actions as well as use (or combine) the D/F array of the cyberjack instead (or together with) the D/F array of the RCC. The cyberjack also provide the rigger with DNI but neither the cyberjack nor the RCC come with a sim module which mean the rigger also still need a control rig implant in order to use VR (and also to have the option to jump into vehicles and drones).

And because of the same reasons it also seem perfectly fine to combine both a cyberjack implant and a control rig implant together with a commlink. This allows the user to both take edge actions as well as jumping in (but without having access to to all the other stuff deckers and riggers can do when using a cyberdeck or RCC).



Then we have the option to combine a cyberdeck with a commlink (as a replacement to the cyberjack). The idea here is that the commlink provide the decker with a D/F attribute array so the decker can form a small PAN and defend against matrix threats. That this could be a budget decker option. Note that the decker would no longer have access to matrix related edge actions and need to get DNI from another source (for example by wearing trodes or implanting a datajack).

What talk against this option is that, if the above assumption is correct, both the cyberdeck and the commlink seem to provide your matrix persona with a condition monitor which mean that it also seem as if you need to choose if you are currently using a commlink or if you are currently using a cyberdeck. That the combination of a cyberdeck and a commlink is technically not allowed.

We also have the option to combine a cyberdeck with a RCC (as a replacement to the cyberjack). This is also an option that does not seem to be technically allowed (for the same reason as with the commlink). You have to choose if you are currently using a cyberdeck (and your matrix persona is getting it's matrix condition monitor track from the cyberdeck and your matrix persona have the option to take hacking actions) or if you are currently using a RCC (and your matrix persona is getting the matrix condition monitor track from the RCC and your matrix persona have the option to share autosofts with drones, jump between drones directly and provide noise reduction etc).

And the same goes for combining a commlink with a RCC. And in this case the commlink would probably not really offer anything that you don't get from using a RCC anyway.

(what further talk against combining cyberdeck / commlink / RCC is that in previous edition it was clear that you could only either use a cyberdeck or a commlink. While you could own both you had to choose which one you were currently using. You could only base your persona on one device. To move your matrix persona from one device to another you explicitly had to reboot both devices).

It also seem as if you cannot base a matrix persona on just a cyberjack (same as you cannot base your matrix persona on just a datajack or by just wearing trodes). To access the matrix and enter hosts etc it seem as if you either need a cyberdeck, a commlink or a RCC.

In this edition it also seem as if you no longer (at least not yet) can base a matrix persona directly on a vehicle or drone by taking a non-matrix action to jump in directly from meat space using just a control rig implant. That to jump into a vehicle or drone you first need to connect to the matrix via a RCC (or commlink or cyberdeck).


I gone through all the relevant rules I could find.
I have not found any conflicting rules as of now.
(but I am well aware that I might have missed something)


Thoughts?
« Last Edit: <11-23-19/0920:04> by Xenon »

Xenon

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« Reply #1 on: <11-23-19/0837:24> »
The alternative would be if deckers base their persona on the cyberjack (rather than the cyberdeck) and that the cyberjack is the device used to connect the user to the matrix (maybe because it is the device that provide the user with the D/F array) and that the decker will be dumped from the matrix if the cyberjack is bricked, but if the decker is in VR then the decker would also be dumped if the cyberdeck is bricked since it is this device that provide the decker with a sim-module.


However, in this case we we run into a few problems.

First of all the cyberjack does not have a listed Device Rating which is needed to calculate number of boxes in the matrix condition monitor track for the decker's matrix persona. The intention seem to be that you (your matrix persona) are using the matrix condition monitor of your cyberdeck, not your cyberjack.

Secondly you would not only be allowed to replace the cyberjack with a commlink (which in it self is not that harmful), you would also be allowed to replace the cyberjack with a RCC - in effect you will end up with a RCC that have the full A/S + D/F array to take any matrix action (not sure this would be intended).

The book seem to describe cyberjacks as being a super powerful datajack, rather than being a super powerful commlink and that it is the cyberdeck that a decker is actually 'using' (similar to how a regular user would 'use' a commlink or how a rigger would 'use' a RCC). But with this reading it seem as if you can no longer connect to the matrix if you just have a cyberdeck (as in this case your matrix persona basically 'require' that you also have either a commlink or a RCC or a cyberjack), but that you instead could connect to the matrix using nothing but a cyberjack. It basically mean that what defines a decker is the fact that he is using a cyberjack, not that he is using a cyberdeck (not sure this would be intended).

It also mean that you probably cannot combine a commlink with a cyberjack anymore (that is probably OK) and you also cannot combine a RCC with a cyberjack (which is probably also OK).
« Last Edit: <11-23-19/0854:39> by Xenon »

DigitalZombie

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« Reply #2 on: <11-23-19/1525:13> »
Hmmm interesting.
So a non-rigger could actually choose to use a RCC. Not for drones, but increased D/F scores and noise cancelation. As he can form a persona in it!

Somewhat related to This. The commlink, cyber deck and RCC can All run programs. Now if you could combine some of those devices would your "Active programming slots " stack? Say 3 from the link and 12 from the deck?

Edit: wait, programs are Limited by data processing, so I presume it would just use the highest. But what is the "Active programming slots" then for? I dont Think IT had any funktion at All in a commlink.
And since decks dont have DP to Begin with their programming slots would always be 0. ( Unless of course IT means that og you gain 6 DP from s cyberjack, and you have the cheapest deck, with a max programming slots of 2, then you can only load 2 programs at once?).

I think Banshee told me a bit about the various interactions in some other thread. Ill see if I can find it
« Last Edit: <11-23-19/1534:39> by DigitalZombie »

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #3 on: <11-23-19/1548:33> »
We already know that Banshee's intent is that Rigging and Cyberdecks cannot be combined: Either you form your persona through the deck and can hack, or you form it through the RCC/Control Rig? Don't remember the exact details, but your persona can either deck or rig was the intent I think.
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

Xenon

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« Reply #4 on: <11-23-19/1846:48> »
So a non-rigger could actually choose to use a RCC. Not for drones, but increased D/F scores and noise cancelation. As he can form a persona in it!
Yes. RCC come with very strong firewalls.

But there seem to be three drawbacks to this;
- RCC is rather big (compared to a commlink)
- RCC cost some nuyen (compared to a commlink, but not as much as a cyberjack)
- Cannot use VR (unless you also get a control rig).


The commlink, cyber deck and RCC can All run programs. Now if you could combine some of those devices would your "Active programming slots " stack? Say 3 from the link and 12 from the deck?
As I read it you need to choose which of the three devices you are currently using and you need to use the advantages and limitations of that specific device. That you cannot stack them and run 3 programs from your commlink and 12 programs from your deck at the same time.

If you are using a commlink then you are limited by the active program slots rating of the commlink and you cannot, at the same time, use a cyberdeck or RCC.

If you are using a cyberdeck then you are limited by the active program slots rating of the cyberdeck and you cannot, at the same time, use a commlink or RCC.

If you are using a RCC then you are limited by the data processing rating of the RCC and you cannot, at the same time, use a cyberdeck or commlink.


Edit: wait, programs are Limited by data processing, so I presume it would just use the highest. But what is the "Active programming slots" then for?
It seem as if both Commlinks and Cyberdecks are limited by their Active Program Slots rating while RCCs are limited by their Data Processing rating.

(would have been more streamlined to just add an Active Program Slots rating to RCCs as well, even if it in this case would just have been a copy of of the Data Processing rating).


We already know that Banshee's intent is that Rigging and Cyberdecks cannot be combined: Either you form your persona through the deck and can hack, or you form it through the RCC/Control Rig...
That seem to support the first post and that the assumption I did was correct.

DigitalZombie

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« Reply #5 on: <11-24-19/0439:21> »



Edit: wait, programs are Limited by data processing, so I presume it would just use the highest. But what is the "Active programming slots" then for?
It seem as if both Commlinks and Cyberdecks are limited by their Active Program Slots rating while RCCs are limited by their Data Processing rating.

(would have been more streamlined to just add an Active Program Slots rating to RCCs as well, even if it in this case would just have been a copy of of the Data Processing rating).

Hmm Im not sure on this one. Pg 184 tells us that ypur device is limited by its DP on how many programs it can run. That sections ONLY mentions commlinks and Cyberdecks so far, as its part of the matrix section.

I believe the intent is that if you ONLY have a cyberdeck, then you can form a persona and do all your hacking stuff, but as your DP is 0, you cant have any programs at all. (Even if you had MCT 360 with 6 slots as a limit.).

If you then combined that deck with a cyberjack, you would gain a DP rating. And thus the ability to load programs, (but if you gained the best cyberjack then you would still only be able to load up to your limit of 6 from the MCT 360).

If that isnt the case, then either the section about DP acting as a limit on your devices on pg 184 is wrong, and should be corrected, or the parts about a active program slots are wrong and should be deleted (personally I would delete the active program slots).

We already know that Banshee's intent is that Rigging and Cyberdecks cannot be combined: Either you form your persona through the deck and can hack, or you form it through the RCC/Control Rig...
That seem to support the first post and that the assumption I did was correct.

I think Banshee specifically talked about the RCC. I dont think you would have any problems with rigging (with your VCR/techno stuff).
Say a deck + VCR.

But a follow up question here.... does a RCC work as a link? Can it even form a persona, and surf the matrix for kitty videos? It seems like it can only slave drones to it, and not regular stuff like a commlink/deck user.

Its not mentioned anywhere that it functions like a link, contrary to the deck (page 174 last part in the "devices" section)

Xenon

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« Reply #6 on: <11-24-19/0752:07> »
Unless this have changed in SR6 (for some reason) the RCC act like a commlink and has all the features of a commlink (in addition to all the cool drone stuff).

Just like if you instead used a commlink or cyberdeck it would also act as the master device in your PAN which mean you will use its matrix condition monitor to soak matrix damage when your matrix persona is targeted.


SR5 p. 266 Rigger Command Console (RCC)
A rigger command console, or RCC, is like a deck for controlling drones (or other vehicles and devices). It’s about the size of a briefcase. It can act like a commlink and has all the features of a commlink in addition to the cool drone stuff. The main purpose of the RCC is to create a PAN with your drones. This gives the standard master-slave benefits (see PANs and WANs, p. 233), but the RCC comes with some extra features.

Xenon

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« Reply #7 on: <11-24-19/0836:21> »
In this edition it also seem as if you no longer (at least not yet) can base a matrix persona directly on a vehicle or drone by taking a non-matrix action to jump in directly from meat space using just a control rig implant. That to jump into a vehicle or drone you first need to connect to the matrix via a RCC (or commlink or cyberdeck).
Actually, I take that back.

Connecting to the matrix via a RCC (or commlink or cyberdeck) and then take the matrix action Jump into rigged device still is an option (and is probably the most common method of jumping in).

However, the Rigger Jump In (I) Major Action is a non-matrix action (different from the Jump Into Rigged Device matrix action). And this action specifically note that with just a control rig implant and either a rigger-adapted vehicle or a drone the rigger (but without a commlink, cyberdeck or RCC) a rigger can jump into the vehicle or drone, directly. Forming the matrix persona directly on the vehicle (riggers had this option in the 5th edition as well).

However, unlike the previous edition, vehicles and drones in this edition don't have Data Processing or Firewall which mean your matrix persona would be wide open to attacks (in 5th edition you would get rather weak attributes by doing this as well - unless you jumped directly into a space ship or other bleeding edge rating 6 devices).

But I guess one option (which vehicle riggers might use quite a lot) would be to have the rigger adapted vehicle wireless disabled and connect to it directly with a wire between the vehicle and the control rig implant (which require that the rigger is physically inside the vehicle). That way the rigger would be immune to noise and hacking (but by doing this the rigger would also not be connected to the matrix at all which mean the rigger would not be able to communicate over the matrix or remote control his or her drones etc).

Hobbes

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« Reply #8 on: <11-24-19/1003:22> »
We already know that Banshee's intent is that Rigging and Cyberdecks cannot be combined: Either you form your persona through the deck and can hack, or you form it through the RCC/Control Rig? Don't remember the exact details, but your persona can either deck or rig was the intent I think.

Cyberdeck doesn't give you the ability to Hack, it's just the only Device with Attack and Sleaze.  Anyone can take any of the Matrix Actions from whatever device they have a Persona from.  Mind you without Attack or Sleaze attribute you'll run into some occasional difficulty on a lot of the illegal ones  8)   But really, RAW, the Attack Attribute determines your Data Spike Damage, and Sleaze is for resisting Matrix Perception when running silent, they're not directly used by much else that I could find.

If you own a Cyberdeck and an RCC RAW you're able to Hack and control Drones without much difficulty.  RCC doesn't have a SIM Module that I could find, Cyberdeck doesn't have the Noise Reduction.  So your theoretical Rigger/Decker has to choose between VR and the Noise Reduction.  But the rest looks good to go.

Slave drones to your RCC's PAN, put that PAN in your PAN of PANs.  Should still have the ability to share Autosofts.

Huh.  RCCs aren't specifically mentioned as having SIM Modules, but p. 197, first paragraph, second column  "...The Data Processing attribute is also used to determine Initiative when running in VR with the RCC."

Anyway, an AR Drone Rigger / Decker with some kind of meat initiative booster would be in fine shape using the RCC to form a Persona. 

Xenon

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« Reply #9 on: <11-24-19/1107:42> »
Anyone can take any of the Matrix Actions from whatever device they have a Persona from.
The intention seem to be that you are not allowed to take actions (or use programs) that are linked to a matrix attribute unless you have that matrix attribute.

(Of course this is not clearly spelled out so you are free to rule this either way)

Both Trace Icon and Snoop, for example, are not linked but they both require Admin access (and illegally gaining Admin access require that you use linked actions). But if you are an admin of a network then it does not seem as if you need a cyberdeck to take the Trace Icon or Snoop action (which I think make perfect sense).

Having said that, I find it strange that Spoof command (which is an outside action that don't require that you take a linked action to first gain access) is not linked to Sleaze. So for the moment I agree that someone using a commlink or RCC (rather than a cyberdeck+cyberjack) would be allowed to take the Spoof Command action.

(Data Spike was also not linked, but they fixed that in the Aug errata).


If you own a Cyberdeck and an RCC RAW you're able to Hack and control Drones without much difficulty. 
The intent seem to be that if you are using your Cyberdeck then you can't use all them nifty drone control options that a RCC offer and if you are current using your RCC then you don't have an A/S array and you can't hack stuff. It seem as if this have not changed since SR5.


RCC doesn't have a SIM Module that I could find
Riggers get a sim module if they install a control rig implant.


Slave drones to your RCC's PAN, put that PAN in your PAN of PANs.
I can't find any support for having more than one Personal Area Network at the same time?


Huh.  RCCs aren't specifically mentioned as having SIM Modules, but p. 197, first paragraph, second column  "...The Data Processing attribute is also used to determine Initiative when running in VR with the RCC."
Riggers get both their sim module and DNI from their control rig implant.

But yes, a rigger using a RCC (rather than a commlink or a cyberdeck) and that also does not have a control rig implant will not have the option to enter VR.

Same a regular user with an external commlink (rather than a RCC or cyberdeck) that is not upgraded with a sim module cannot enter VR. And also if the user does not wear trodes or having an implanted datajack (or cyberjack or control rig) then he can also not enter VR.

None of this seem to have changed since SR5.


Anyway, an AR Drone Rigger / Decker with some kind of meat initiative booster would be in fine shape using the RCC to form a Persona.
The intention seem to be that you have to choose if you are currently using a cyberdeck (and your matrix persona is getting it's matrix condition monitor track from the cyberdeck and your matrix persona have the option to use programs and and matrix actions linked to attack or sleaze) or if you are currently using a RCC (and your matrix persona is getting the matrix condition monitor track from the RCC and your matrix persona have the option to slave multiple drones to your PAN, share autosofts with drones, jump between drones directly, issue the same command to multiple drones as once and provide noise reduction...)

It seem as if this have not changed since SR5.
« Last Edit: <11-24-19/1117:04> by Xenon »

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #10 on: <11-24-19/1112:36> »
A/S aren't invoked directly very often, but added together they're your Matrix Attack Rating. And if it adds up to a low number, you're giving away edge with every attempted hacking action. Not good.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Hobbes

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« Reply #11 on: <11-24-19/1142:07> »
PAN of PANs, it's been stated several times by the Matrix rules writer that you can incorporate other PANs into your PAN.  A PAN doesn't require a Persona, otherwise every time you log off your commlink for the night all your stuff would just be out there as unprotected devices.  Also the Paranoid folks with Multiple SINs and Commlinks would require a bunch of mindless shuffling around of Matrix Icons every time they went to use a burner Commlink to send a text.  So it seems obvious (to me anyway) that you can slave Drones to an RCC's PAN, then slave that PAN to another PAN (Doesn't even have to be "your" PAN), then form a Persona with some other Device.  The RCC is still doing it's thing with the Drones slaved to it, not sure why the RCC would suddenly kick everything from a PAN when the user switches to a different device. 

And yes the RAI is you can't do Attack actions without Attack attribute, Sleaze Actions without a Sleaze Attribute, that has been stated several times.  RAW it doesn't say that, FAQ or Errata may or may not address, could be something that gets left to a GM.  But you can still do Illegal actions like Control Device, Snoop, Edit File, Crack File, ect without a Cyberdeck (or Resonance attribute) if you have appropriate access somehow.  Stolen passwords, Mind Control, Stolen File on a Data Chip, or just holding a gun to someone's head and telling them what to do.  Whatever, players are creative.  Also bottom of p. 178 "...This isn’t to say a good cyberdeck isn’t worth its weight in gold, but at the end of the day, a hacker with the right skills can work wonders with even a kludged-together deck..."  Seems to be a sentence intending to give GMs / Players some wiggle room with regards to gear requirements for oddball situations. 

And I understand the writer's intention (Re:RCCs and Cyberdecks).  Banshee has stated it explicitly.  It's also clearly not RAW so Banshee's intentions didn't make the final cut, and that has been confirmed as intended.  RCCs and Cyberdecks work just fine together to share attributes.  An AR Decker could easily form a Persona with an RCC and use a Cyberdeck's Attack/Sleaze ratings and get along just fine.  At this time VR only provides an initiative boost as far as I can tell.  Snort some Cram and you're golden.

Foregoing a Cyberjack does leave out Matrix Edge Actions.  At this time that doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

Hobbes

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« Reply #12 on: <11-24-19/1146:47> »
A/S aren't invoked directly very often, but added together they're your Matrix Attack Rating. And if it adds up to a low number, you're giving away edge with every attempted hacking action. Not good.

Yes, and that. 

Like I said, you'll run into some occasional difficulty when attempting Illegal Matrix actions without a Cyberdeck (or Resonance).  And then I did the  8) emoji thing.  Because seriously you're not hacking a Host with just a Commlink, you'll be stomped flat even if you do have Direct Access and someone's passwords.  But if you're desperate...

Xenon

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« Reply #13 on: <11-24-19/1432:02> »
It seem as if many rules in this edition require that you have knowledge of previous editions, behind the scenes knowledge by reading posts made by the author and/or that you make assumptions and take your own discussions on what make sense for you and your table.


With your reading it would always be better for a decker (and a rigger) to (optionally) get a rating 1 cyberjack (mostly just to enable matrix edge actions and to provide DNI) and (optionally) have a cyberdeck somewhere in the network (for an A/S array to buff your AR to make it easier to earn edge, but also to provide your network with a hot-sim module) - but primary use a RCC. That way you get a very strong D/F array very cheap as well as all the benefits of using a RCC (noise reduction, sending same order to multiple drones etc). Since you are forming your persona on the RCC it will be the RCC (and not your, potentially expensive deck), that soak damage in case your matrix persona is attacked. You could also (optionally) add a control rig to the mix, but at this point it is really only needed if you also wish to have the option to jump in.


Thank you for your input, but I think I will continue to read it as if deckers in this edition use a cyberdeck + cyberjack implant, riggers use a RCC + vehicle control rig implant and pretty much everyone else use a commlink + datajack implant. This too seem to be supported by the rules as they are written (but maybe more importantly, at least in my mind, this seem make a lot more sense, is more aligned with how it worked in previous editions and it also seem to be more aligned with the authors intent)
« Last Edit: <11-24-19/1523:59> by Xenon »