[FastJack]

Here's the poll to let us know what you feel we should do with the Rep System. I've set it up so that, if you change your mind, you can change your vote. Also, the results will not be made public until the poll expires in 30 days (9/17/2012).

Unlike NERPS voting, however, you can only vote on it once.

(mod edit: Just now noticed a few spelling mistakes. Damn you GenCon! ... I love you GenCon, don't ever leave me)

[beowulf_of_wa]

can we get the option to view the results after voting?

[Xzylvador]

Could I offer a third option: Keep the positive score, lose the negative one?
This still gives a "reward" to people who put in an effort and gives others a chance to show their appreciation to those persons, but leaves the bad posts to "report to moderator" (which is why it's there, no?) and doesn't give whoever-the-smite-spammers-are the pleasure of random smite spamming.

I don't mean to single you out Xzylvador, but your post struck a note with me in that you're feeling that your contributions aren't worth it due to negative feedback. Catalyst has a number of freelancers and full-time workers that are getting paid for their contributions and, more often than not, have to put up with a LOT more negative feedback than a smite on a forums board. People in all walks of life are dealing with negatives in their work just because co-workers, bosses, employees or even customers just don't like them, and it has nothing to do with the quality of their work.

I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm a bit grumpy about this, but the fact is, I am. So, I'm going to start an anonymous poll on the subject. We'll let it run a while (probably about a month, though I figure we'll get 95% of the votes in the first week), and let you guys show you opinion on the matter. Then we'll take the results and make a decision on where to go with this.

I did not mean my post to be disrespectful to any of the people working for Catalyst.. In fact, I've nothing other than tons of gratitude and respect for their work. (And this respect is shown to by them being paid and by many people buying their products... And even though it's usually the negative comments that are voiced the loudest, the fact that people continue to purchase the books and play the game, and care enough to comment on it, means their work is very much appreciated!)
But my previous post wasn't about those people, I was simply trying to explain why the anonymous at-will smiting can be/is hurtful to some people. People who just want to share their knowledge of and passion for the game they love.

I sincerely hope my post wasn't the only reason you closed those two other threads, because I really do think it's a discussion worth having, regardless of how emotional this topic can be for some.
Emotion is the only thing this is all about after all, otherwise it would be a non-issue. It wouldn't have made you grumpy, wouldn't make others doubt the value of their contributions and wouldn't make others want to reward some of those efforts and 'punish' the ones which might cause harm.

The fact that people do continue to discuss this topic means people care, and that's a very good thing. People care about Shadowrun and care about this forum.
And they can show their appreciation towards the people who they feel are contributing to their game through this forum, which is a great thing to be able to do!
It's only the other side of the system that simply doesn't work. If "It's not important enough to care about, just grow a thicker skin." is the biggest reason to keep it implemented, simply removing it seems a much more preferable solution to this problem.

[Henzington]

Personally I think reporting abusive behavior to moderator and locking threads wheres fine as the forums are well moderated.  Although I like the sytem in theory, in reality its easy to abuse and there is nothing stopping someone from chain smiting someone for little or no reason.

[DarkLloyd]

I say either keep it all or get rid of it all.

I agree with FJ about, this is only a forum smite. And to that end the "Forum Overlord^TM", the person that maintains this place isn't even a full time paid job. If it was then yeah all these requests would be valid.

To fix the whole thing I would say, that to be able to use a Smite or an Applaud a mini IM should pop up and you have to state what it was for or some such. The only Identifiers this would have are a small link back to the post it was done on. BUT this data would be tracked on your profile and be accessible to the Mods only. If they see an inordinate percentage of applauds/smites (yes both to prevent abuse of either) and disable that ability after a warning or discussion.
But as I said above, I wouldn't ask this solution of anyone that wasn't getting paid to do it.

I know a lot of the Catalyst crew on the Battletech and Shadowrun sides in person, even for the ones that are "full time and paid" a number of them still have another job. We give them grief over the flaws and problems in their books or forums (and yes I'm not saying there are no problems, there defiantly are.) but not Nearly enough praise for their  Accomplishments that these guys have put out for us.

As I've gotten older I've found I care less about things like that smite button and concentrated more on what can I take away from these boards to help make my game better and more enjoyable. An old adage I've found that get's more true over the years. "Don't sweat the small Shit." and some anonymous person in the internet is definitely "small shit."

EDIT: LOL. see even post this got me 2 smites..... lololol               
Xzylvador, that is the best example of you will never please, even half the people much less, everyone.  Don't sweat these smites man just do what you do. Go play your daily/weekly/monthly(whatever it is) game with your friends and let the haters hate.

[WSN0W]

I don't think the system works as intended. There seems to be several cases of chain smiting. I held off posting for several days once it became clear I was getting several smites. I wanted to see if I had just done a lot of intense posts and was earning one or two from those or if there was just a steady stream of incoming smites.

I've gotten 3-4 smites a day, despite adding no new topics. I checked a few times a day and they seemed to come in a few hour batches which suggests one person does their 1/hr smite a few times a day and then repeats daily. A few other forum users (JustADude being a bit one) have made mention of a similar thing.

Since you can smite infinitely with no obvious record of it, and with users having no idea to tell which post they did that offered the offense besides 'best guessing' due to post timing, it makes for some ambiguous numbers.

If the answer is 'ignore it' that's fine, but it also means 'why have the system in the first place?'

I like the idea of just the positive rep one as that right there is telling.

The other idea I had would be to add under your applaud/smite ratio the total number you gave out. While it doesn't say (as I understand there are code restrictions) what post got what rating by whom, it would let you compare POster A that has 100 total posts, total rep adjustment of 40 and has given out 25 applauds and 10 smites and Poster B that has 100 total Posts, total rep adjustment of 40 and has given out 25 applauds and 300 smites. Or the reverse about someone giving out applauds like crazy too. They could all be justified, but it also gives a heads up that Poster X has a leaning towards being quick on the draw on one type or the other, which is another aspect of Rep to be known for.

I've also noticed that most of the high post count people have a 50-50ish ratio (or close), if not a solid dip in the negatives. The only really active forum users that seem to break that trend are those with Moderator and Freelancers in their title section. It makes sense as people aren't likely to excessively target 'the admins' as easily as the normal users (Though FastJack obviously had to suffer through  that for his name choice based on some of his posts.)

[beowulf_of_wa]

is that possible? to add the "+/- given" to the forum? that would be AWESOME!! (i think)

but then again, i've only been keeping an eye on my applaud numbers lately, it's definitely more fun to see the rewards.

[WSN0W]

Well, the rewards are easier (though not completely clear) what you earned them from.

Really though, if the system is going to be considered a Criticism system, it needs to have some connection to actions taken. I am doing X and receiving Y. Telling someone 'you're a jerk because of a post' isn't really helpful if they made 200 posts. Which one was the offensive one? Which one was the awesome one? What ABOUT it was jerk-tastic? Because I disagreed with the generally accepted view point or because I said something taken in an aggressive manner?

I'm sure any of the Freelancers and Writers can attest that hearing 'this rocks' and 'this sucks' are largely unhelpful for writing. While hearing 'this rocks' certainly is a nice 'woot!' pick me up, it honestly is just as unhelpful as 'this sucks' for locating and reproducing (or removing in the case of 'sucking') what aspect of the writing/work/design/creative work had true impact. It doesn't give any direction for improvement. If you're not looking for direction, then a 'that rocks' is certainly awesome, but that also means they are not seeking true constructive criticism from a person too.

Smite/Applaud isn't Criticism, it's 'you rock/you suck' as there is no feedback to lead into anything. And while I'm happy to get my creative work, professional work and gaming position constructive torn to pieces so I can improve upon myself and my work (as that is major way improve IS reached), I am totally comfortable going 'yeah, I don't really appreciate what appears to be largely 1 person just power smiting my name for no identify reason.' But the same would be true about Applauds. If everyone just had their applaud rating go up 1 per hour every hour, even if you don't put a post up for 5 days....it cheapens THAT too. It removes any sense of earning it and basically just turns it into a clock.

[FastJack]

can we get the option to view the results after voting?

I set it up this way to be a truly anonymous vote. If you don't know how everyone else is voting, then you can't succumb to peer pressure.

Could I offer a third option: Keep the positive score, lose the negative one?
<snip>

This option would also require some programming, so it would fall into the whole idea of going above and beyond what volunteers can do.

As for the reason for closing the other two threads, it has more to do with consolidating the discussion here and starting off fresh with the discussion. I don't think you were being disrespectful to any of the writers for Catalyst, I was merely pointing out that they have to deal with the same type of criticisms. Yes, you don't know exactly why you may have been smited, but if someone really wants to criticize your work, I'm sure that the posters here (and at Dumpshock) would have no problem actually identifying "true criticism" of that work. If they smite you for that work anonymously, then their opinion is baseless and should be ignored.

I'm not going to quote the others, because y'all pretty much covered what I said just above. I will say the Rep system was never intended to be anything more than "fun", especially since those of us here in the beginning saw it as something similar to the Persona 2.0 (PITO) ratings and Jackpoint Rep scores.

[CanRay]

So...  When does JustADude get his prize, and what is it? 

[Henzington]

a hearty handshake or a hug or an awkward kiss?

[CanRay]

a hearty handshake or a hug or an awkward kiss?

Trust someone to demand Yaoi.

[PeterSmith]

a hearty handshake or a hug or an awkward kiss?

BIG RUSSIAN KISSES!

[Mirikon]

Keep it as it is. For the people who get upset because anonymous people on the internet don't like them, I'd tell them the same thing my mother told me, "Life is not fair." Good people have bad things happen to them. Bad people get away with things. Assholes get laid like nobody's business, and nice guys stay virgins into their 40s. Life is not fair. You can either cry about it, or you can accept it, grow a thicker skin, and keep moving forward.

[shrike]

This is a non-issue for me. I couldnt possibly care any less about what random people on a forum think of me. However, for those who do, another solution might be to have the option of removing/hiding the rep score in the modify profile section.