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Grapple - Break Free Q

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imthedci

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« on: <01-16-20/0925:42> »
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Break  free:  In  this  action,  the  defender  tries  to  break out of the grapple. This is a Close Combat + Strength test, using their unarmed Attack Rating, and it  does  not  experience  the  –4  dice  pool  penalty  for  being restrained. If they succeed in the test, they do not do any damage, but they are free of the grapple.

Two Questions about Breaking Free

1. What exactly is the target # of hits for this test? (In a thread I found through searching, someone said that this is an opposed check vs. Str, but I'd like it very much if someone could verify this)

2. I'm guessing that AR is mentioned in this because it's used to check for Edge generation like a normal attack. Would that be correct or is there some other reason?

Thanks for the help. ^_^

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #1 on: <01-16-20/0943:26> »
1) Given the flipside of this action where the Attacker is trying to keep a hold on the victim (Restrain) is an opposed Close Combat + STR vs Close Combat + STR, it makes sense that the intent on Break Free is that it should also be an opposed test.

2) Yes, relevant for edge generation in the "AR vs DR" leg of the edge triad. (the other two legs of edge generation are circumstantial advantage and gear/qualities)
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

skalchemist

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« Reply #2 on: <01-16-20/0945:53> »
1. What exactly is the target # of hits for this test? (In a thread I found through searching, someone said that this is an opposed check vs. Str, but I'd like it very much if someone could verify this)

2. I'm guessing that AR is mentioned in this because it's used to check for Edge generation like a normal attack. Would that be correct or is there some other reason?
I was about to say "of course it is an opposed test" because I had simply assumed that to be the case.  But looking at the actual rule on page 111 it is not stated as an opposed test, just as the defender making the test.  I know that in our group we are using an opposed test, but I realize now that is really a house rule based on misreading the text and assuming something was there that wasn't.  So I don't have an answer for question #1, except to say it can't possibly be Threshold Zero (as the rules would imply), that would make breaking free far easier than establishing the original hold.

I think you are right on question #2; its there to figure out who gets Edge when the Break Free action is attempted.  In our game, we have been using the grappler unarmed DR for this, although honestly that makes no sense either, really; why would armor help you hold on to someone? 

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #3 on: <01-16-20/0950:45> »
I was about to say "of course it is an opposed test" because I had simply assumed that to be the case.  But looking at the actual rule on page 111 it is not stated as an opposed test, just as the defender making the test.

I thought the same thing.  "Clearly", the intent is it should be opposed.

But, if one really wants to make it an unopposed Success Test, I'd say that the threshold should at least be the # of net hits the restraining party last scored to hold/keep a hold on you.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

skalchemist

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« Reply #4 on: <01-16-20/1022:28> »
But, if one really wants to make it an unopposed Success Test, I'd say that the threshold should at least be the # of net hits the restraining party last scored to hold/keep a hold on you.
Wouldn't you want it to be actual hits, not net hits?  The net hits subtracts out the original roll of the defender.

I could actually see the rule working well with actual hits.  On the initial grab, the attacker sets the threshold with their actual hits (the first defense roll by the defender is a kind of "free" Break Free attempt).  In future rounds, the defender is trying to get around that initial Threshold; tactically they are trading a major action to try to break free without the -4 grappling penalty.  If you worked it that way, then the "Restrain" option on page 111 would be a way for the attacker to try to increase this Threshold, maybe after an initial lucky grab, at the risk of the defender making a lucky roll and getting out of the hold without taking action. 

That system makes sense to me.  As a house rule, you could rewrite most of that section on page 111 to use a "Grappled" status, and it would be a simple matter to make that a "Grappled #" status, where # is the current Threshold to get out of the status.
« Last Edit: <01-16-20/1024:06> by skalchemist »