[Mollari]

Hi guys

1) A player is suggesting that cyber spurs and bone lacing stack. I'm saying that spurs aren't 'unarmed' but just use the skillset. You're take?

2) I've always played it that metavarients can't take the surge qualities. There's a piece of fluff in RunFaster that shows the % of metaraces that became surges and it's 100% from the human, troll, orc, elf, dwarf mix. To me metavarients are already surglings that come with the surgling qualities. Do you guys allow metavarients to further take surge qualities? eg. a nocturne taking an agility meta-attribute quality?

Thanks guys, you've been fielding a lot of my questions lately.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

1) Spurs give you a damage value.  Bone lacing gives you a damage value.  Pick which one you want to use per attack.

2) Your table your call.  Depends on how much of a freak show you want to encourage the team to be.

[ChromeCoyote]

There is a bioware version of a spur that has its damage affected by bone augmentation, but cyber spurs get no effect from it. Not with my books at the moment, but the bioware version that is affected is in Chrome Flesh.

[ChromeCoyote]

2.) there is no connection, that I know of, other than which book they are in, between metavariants and SURGE. You can, obviously, change that for your game, if you wish, but per the rules, no.

[Mollari]

I guess I assumed (though you are correct it isn't explicitly stated) that metavarients 'are' SURGE.

So a dwarf with neotany and a couple of metavarient attributes makes a gnome.
An elf with meta Agility and a hair quality and nocturnal quality becomes a Noctura.

So because the Metavarients use the SURGE qualities, I assumed they were one.

[Reaver]

I guess I assumed (though you are correct it isn't explicitly stated) that metavarients 'are' SURGE.

So a dwarf with neotany and a couple of metavarient attributes makes a gnome.
An elf with meta Agility and a hair quality and nocturnal quality becomes a Noctura.

So because the Metavarients use the SURGE qualities, I assumed they were one.

The metavariants existed before Haley's Comet came back and Surge happened... But you are not far wrong in your thinking.

Think of it as alphabet soup. All the traits of all the races are floating around in our DNA, because at the end of the day, we are all still "Human" at the genetic level and can interbreed and bare viable children. All SURGE does is cause some of the genetic markers in our DNA to express themselves. Sometimes, these expressions lead to something advantageous, sometimes these expressions lead to horrible, painful deaths! (covered in the fluff from earlier editions, but mostly removed now from mention, and not at all an option for players - who wants a dead character?!? But in fluff some people suddenly SURGED qualities like "only able to breathe underwater" or an extreme allergy to oxygen/sunlight. Or other non-viable things!) So when someone SURGES and gains meta Agility, they are in essence unlocking that genetic trait from their DNA that is prevalent in Noctura, without all the other changes that comes from that meta-variant.

[Marcus]

Everyone has their own different tolerance for weirdness, and everyone has their own different vision of the Game.
I wouldn't let a player run surge anymore then I would let them play vampires. So stick to your guns, and do what feels right for your table.

 

[SpellBinder]

1:  Stack?  I'd say no.  Spurs are generally retractable, so if they're not out then you use your Bone Lacing.  Pop out a spur and you're using it instead.  Plus if you're awakened you can have a weapon focus spur.

2:  In SR4 the metavariants were handled in game mechanics as the base metatypes with SURGE traits, and didn't have to pay for a SURGE quality to take more.  Now it looks like it's written as the metavariants are all individual races like the baseline dwarf & ork & etc., so I'd say something like an ogre or minotaur would have to pay for one of the SURGE qualities to have the privilege of being a changeling now.

But as has already been mentioned, stick to what you want for your table.  Because of the newness of players at one time (SR4 rules) I disallowed the metavariants and mystic adepts entirely.

[Overbyte]

1) A player is suggesting that cyber spurs and bone lacing stack. I'm saying that spurs aren't 'unarmed' but just use the skillset. You're take?

1:  Stack?  I'd say no.  Spurs are generally retractable, so if they're not out then you use your Bone Lacing.  Pop out a spur and you're using it instead.  Plus if you're awakened you can have a weapon focus spur.

Pretty much what he said. It's pretty obvious (to me anyway) that when you are hitting someone with your spurs you are not hitting them with your arm and vice versa.