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Vintage Guns

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lonewolf23k

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« on: <11-22-10/1815:58> »
As much as I like the guns in the Corebook and the Arsenal sourcebook, I like modern-day guns as well, and was wondering how they would be statted out in Shadowrun.  I can imagine that even with the modern generation of guns available to them in the Sixth World, some gun enthusiasts still like the classics like the Colt Peacemaker or the AK-47.

Has anyone statted out "vintage" guns of our modern era?

Nomad Zophiel

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« Reply #1 on: <11-22-10/1819:06> »
A lot of the famous guns of the past have an updated version for Shadowrun. I'd just drop the damage (for the Colt), the accuracy (for the AK) etc by 1. The price on most of them would stay the same, since they're more for collectible value than power. The AK or a Mosin-Nagant you can probably get for the cost of a Stuffer Meal because there's so damn many of them and they last forever.

Dakka

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« Reply #2 on: <11-22-10/1839:47> »
Is there something the AK-47 needs to be that the AK-97 isn't?

Chaemera

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« Reply #3 on: <11-22-10/1935:35> »
Perhaps the Obsolete trait (This Old Drone), Dakka?

To represent an inability to make it work with smart-link and similar upgrades, perhaps?

Just spinning off the top of my head. Frankly, I'm with you, find an equivalent gun, rename it and be really exclusive about buying bullets.
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Mystic

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« Reply #4 on: <11-23-10/0534:11> »
That makes me wonder: what are the quivilent calibers of modern firearms to their Sixth World successors? Would "heavy pistol" ammo be more of a .40, .45, or .375? Or would "light pistol" rounds be like a .38 or 9mm?
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Medicineman

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« Reply #5 on: <11-23-10/0629:09> »
´@Mystic
Are You shure that you want to open Pandoras Box with this question ?
be sure to wear something Flameresistant

he who dances a Flamenco on top of  Pandoras Box
(to keep it closed)
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Chaemera

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« Reply #6 on: <11-23-10/0648:05> »
That makes me wonder: what are the quivilent calibers of modern firearms to their Sixth World successors? Would "heavy pistol" ammo be more of a .40, .45, or .375? Or would "light pistol" rounds be like a .38 or 9mm?

Leave the lid tight on that box!
Such questions are explicitly ignored in the RAW for a reason. . . (shudders in pained memory of d20 Modern ammo. . .)
If someone wanted a vintage gun, or I put one in for plot reasons, it would require its own, unique, ammo. I'll blame it on changes to smokeless powder in the intervening years and slight changes to caliber that are blessedly not addressed for the regular guns. Then I'd laugh at the look of despair as the players realize they have a gun for which they need to scrounge ammo.

Joins Medicineman. . . Keep that lid down!
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Doc Chaos

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« Reply #7 on: <11-23-10/0741:09> »
Agreed. I do mention calibers only on rare occations, if I have to make a point, like telling the players the victim was shot with a custom made 30.08 probably from a long range (so they know, sharpshooter who really knows what he's doing). Other than that, stay away from that topic!
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Dead Monky

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« Reply #8 on: <11-23-10/1422:30> »
Crap.  You want vintage?  Let's cobble together some stats for arquebus, blunderbuses, muskets, and the like.  If you wanted to get really obsessive, you could even toss together some rules for various firing mechanisms too (wheellock, matchlock, snapchance, etc.)  You could jump around a corner at the Corpsec, yell "Have at thee!", then get gunned down because your match went out or your powder got wet.

FastJack

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« Reply #9 on: <11-23-10/1545:03> »
Technically the street sweeper is a blunderbus/musket. So you got your basics already.

Oh, and good to see ya back, Monky. Where you been?

Dead Monky

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« Reply #10 on: <11-23-10/1551:24> »
Technically the street sweeper is a blunderbus/musket. So you got your basics already.
True.  That's likely what I would use as the basis for any I made.  Though working in the various firing mechanisms could be tricky.

Quote
Oh, and good to see ya back, Monky. Where you been?
Thanks.  I've been around.  I just go through cycles where I'll be online a lot then won't touch the net for a while.  And my Arcanum addiction flared a while back.

FastJack

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« Reply #11 on: <11-23-10/1603:53> »
Why is it you talk of firing mechanisms and I suddenly picture grenade traps made of slingshots and such in dilapidated old buildings...

Anyway, glad to see you back.

And my Arcanum addiction flared a while back.
You know they make creams for that. ;D

Dead Monky

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« Reply #12 on: <11-23-10/1610:54> »
Why is it you talk of firing mechanisms and I suddenly picture grenade traps made of slingshots and such in dilapidated old buildings...
Heh heh.  People need to know what they're in for when they trespass in one of my properties.   ;D

You know they make creams for that. ;D
Yeah, but I was pretty broke for a while there and couldn't afford them.

Thanks for the welcome back, by the way.

Mystic

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« Reply #13 on: <11-24-10/0324:19> »
Holy Schnikies!!! What did I do?

It was an idle question for what was a light conversation. I did not know it would cause such an uproar. I know that the SR firearms rules were made specifically to avoid such a headache and am fully against actually TRYING to implement such a thing...just wondering in vague terms, specifically sense we were talking "vintage', if anyone had any thoughts on the matter to further the conversation.

Wow, next time Ill keep my mouth shut.  :o  :-\
« Last Edit: <11-24-10/0328:57> by Mystic »
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Critias

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« Reply #14 on: <11-24-10/0341:19> »
Holy Schnikies!!! What did I do? It was an idle question for what was a light conversation. I did not know it would cause such an uproar. I know that the firearms rules were made specifically to avoid such a headache and am fully against actually TRYING to implement such a thing...just wondering in vague terms, specifically sense we were talking "vintage', if anyone had any thoughts on the matter to further the conversation.

Wow, next time Ill keep my mouth shut.
Nothing to apologize for, man.  It's just a conversation, man, no big deal.  It's the whole reason we're here, isn't it?

Personally, I enjoy mentioning caliber from time to time in my fiction.  A part of me likes that there aren't necessarily game rules for it, but the real-life shooter in me likes the ability to add some detail to descriptions when I'm writing, so it's not at all uncommon for me to mention gauge or caliber when describing a firearm in fluff/casual writing.

Generally speaking -- and please, this is nothing official, or even anything I always keep consistent with -- I traditionally call most light pistols and some SMGs 9mm.  .45, .40, or 10mm for some of the higher damage code SMGs and most heavy pistols.  .357 is another possibility for a heavy pistol, but the traditionalist in me prefers it for wheelguns over automatics.  Shotguns in my fiction are 12 gauges because they all should be in real life (  ;D ) and when in doubt I describe most assault rifles as .223 or 7.62, just for simplicity's sake, but sometimes I'll sneak in a 6.8.  Anything smaller than a light pistol, or bigger than an assault rifle, you can get a little crazier with it because such "niche" ammo is more likely to vary, in my opinion, than the somewhat standardized stuff in between.  When you get to the more specialized large (or small) rounds, you get some really crazy outliers.  When you're talking about the more moderate and popular stuff in between, there's more standardization in my experience.  .308 is a popular sporting rifle AND sniper rifle round in real life, but other than that you can just have some fun making up a crazy high (or crazy low, for hold-outs) number and runnin' with it.  ;)

They're just vague earmarks that folks might sometimes see me use in my own fiction, many of which are holdovers from SR3, and which are often influenced by whatever gun I'm lusting after in real life at the moment.  Astute readers back when I posted regularly on SL could probably tell what I'd rented at the range, what I'd just bought, or what I wanted to buy, based on what I had some characters use.   ;D 

And there are always exceptions -- weapons with a weird damage code compared to everything else in their class, for instance, or ones that are obviously based on a real-life gun with a strange caliber (like FN's 5.7 rounds) -- and that's where the fun comes in. 

I figure it beats writing something like "With a feral grin, Tyler squeezed the triggers on his matched Ares Predators and sent a hail of Power 9 (Moderate Damage) rounds flying at his would-be assassin," or "The hitman lined up his shot carefully, and felt the sniper rifle buck against his shoulder.  He fought down the recoil with an expert's practiced ease and the rifle's natural balance, and kept his cold-eyed gaze focused through the scope;  his mark's head exploded as he took 8P damage right to his ugly face, and another contract was completed."  ;)