[_Pax_]

I'm not a big fan of the foregrip; it adds +1 concealability, so it's generally best cut off as soon as possible.

... and the rules don't cover the idea of a folding foregrip very well.  Which is kind of weird, considering they do cover folding stocks.

[TheNarrator]

I'm not a big fan of the foregrip; it adds +1 concealability, so it's generally best cut off as soon as possible.

... and the rules don't cover the idea of a folding foregrip very well.  Which is kind of weird, considering they do cover folding stocks.

To be fair, folding foregrips are not nearly as common as folding stocks. Compared to not implementing rules for reflex sights until earlier this year, it's not that big an oversight.

[UmaroVI]

You can also add a top mount smart link accessory.

[_Pax_]

I'm not a big fan of the foregrip; it adds +1 concealability, so it's generally best cut off as soon as possible.

... and the rules don't cover the idea of a folding foregrip very well.  Which is kind of weird, considering they do cover folding stocks.

To be fair, folding foregrips are not nearly as common as folding stocks. Compared to not implementing rules for reflex sights until earlier this year, it's not that big an oversight.

Oh, I didn't mean "OMG HOW DARE THEY", just ... "hey, yeah, they don't cover that issue, do they?"

[welldressedgent]

...is the Ultimax 70 competitive with the FN57?

I saw a few Ultimax guns in the various books, but none had the number 70 and none were smaller than an assault rifle. Can you tell me which book it's in?

Thx. The Ultimax 70 is in Runners Blackbook.

Does anyone know if machine pistols can take the auto-adjusting weight mod? Or if they require chameleon coating to work with a ruthenium suit? Yes or no, it looks like chameleon coating could turn your machine pistol into a light pistol for concealed carry purposes.

-g

[Tsuzua]

Does anyone know if machine pistols can take the auto-adjusting weight mod? Or if they require chameleon coating to work with a ruthenium suit? Yes or no, it looks like chameleon coating could turn your machine pistol into a light pistol for concealed carry purposes.

It's an ask your GM issue.  I've generally included machine pistols in all groupings of pistols for the purpose of mods and the like since they have pistols in the name.  You can also just have pistols be everything covered by the Pistols skill just as well.

[welldressedgent]

My rankings
for Power, Availability, Accuracy and Style.

THE ALSO-RAN
B&P MP9
3 of 4 'machine pistols suck.'
2 of 3 'I got arrested watching Batman'
1 of 2 'pretty accurate when it works.'
0 of 1 'held together with tape and prayer.'
Total   6.0

THE BRONZE
FN5-7C
2.5 of 4 'another sucky machine pistol.'
3 of 3 'resembles a normal handgun.'
0.5 of 2 'free RC woot!'
1 of 1 'easy to maintain and shoot.'
Total   7.0

THE SILVER
Izom R-63A
4 of 4 'exception that proves the rule.'
2 of 3 'More expensive than my battle rifle.'
2 of 2 well-endowed. A 5P BF weapon doesn't need much RC.
Refuse to score allegations of ugly without picture they're hearsay.
BUT 0 of 1 'Exploitive supplement will make Gm hate you.'
Total     8.0

THE GOLD
Sawed-off SMGs
4 of 4 'Now we're cooking with gas!'
2.5 of 3 Mostly cheap and legal.
2 of 2 'any accessories you want.'
0 of 1 'concealing your sidearm in a manbag.'
Total    8.5

-g

[Kontact]

My rankings
for Power

They all shoot stick and shock the same.



As to what I think is the best, well, that's really up to what you're doing.  Personally, I like a little something like this.

Qualities: Hawkeye + Ambidextrous
Guns: 2x Ceska Black Scorpion
Mods: 2x (Barrel Reduction, Chameleon Coating, Easy Breakdown, Extended Clip, Personalized grip)
Accessories: 2x Gas-Vent 3
Ammo: Combination of Stick-n-Shock and Tracer rounds.

The guns are -3  to spot when assembled and can be disassembled to get past security.

Can BF 2x per gun per pass without penalty, and can do that for 7 passes in a row without reloading.

Tracers provide no bonus within 4 meters, but provide +1 to each burst with each gun from 4-12 meters, and cancel out the -1 range penalty from 12-24 meters.  (Most "sneak a gun" situations won't have engagement ranges beyond 20 meters anyway, unless you're in an airport or something.)

[Tsuzua]

As Kontact said, they all have the same power, 6S(e) -1/2AP.  The bonus DV is enough to make it the default choice for machine pistols.  The -1/2 AP and don't taze me bro checks make it the choice for SMGs.

The niche of machine pistols isn't that they're the best concealable choice for everyone.  There are regular pistols just as fine or better at that role.  The niche is "most concealable firearm" for automatics users.  That way you can use your Automatics 6 skill that you bought for your Ingram Supermach or Ares Alpha or Battle Rifle to cover when you are just walking around the street.  You can make a machine pistol as roughly concealable as a normal heavy pistol for stuff like pat downs which is within the "the GM won't harass you for carrying it" concealibility threshold for most games. 

[KarmaInferno]

Don't forget the disguised equipment rules from Spy Games.

¥1500 for a +6 vs someone figuring out the hairbrush he's looking at is really a machine pistol is pretty nifty.



-k

[UmaroVI]

Qualities: Hawkeye + Ambidextrous
Guns: 2x Ceska Black Scorpion
Mods: 2x (Barrel Reduction, Chameleon Coating, Easy Breakdown, Extended Clip, Personalized grip)
Accessories: 2x Gas-Vent 3
Ammo: Combination of Stick-n-Shock and Tracer rounds.

The guns are -3  to spot when assembled and can be disassembled to get past security.

Can BF 2x per gun per pass without penalty, and can do that for 7 passes in a row without reloading.

Tracers provide no bonus within 4 meters, but provide +1 to each burst with each gun from 4-12 meters, and cancel out the -1 range penalty from 12-24 meters.  (Most "sneak a gun" situations won't have engagement ranges beyond 20 meters anyway, unless you're in an airport or something.)

If you're going to give up on FA and use BF only to be able to fit in chameleon coating, why not use the Ares Crusader over the Ceska? The slight extra cost is trivial compared to the price of the mods, you can just attach a stock accessory to the crusader, and with Extended Clip you end up with 50(c) rather than 44(c), which is worth it if you are going to the trouble of putting on Extended Clip in the first place.

Also, only FA weapons can use Tracer Rounds.

[Kontact]

The crusader already has an extended clip as a stock mod. 
40 rounds isn't far behind 44 though, and getting a folding stock is cheaper than an extended clip by a long shot.

Not that it matters too much since..

Didn't notice that you need FA to get the tracer benefit.  Strange since short bursts still provide a dp bonus.  Apparently not all bursts are equal? 

Suppose that's another mark in the MP9's corner, but clip size is pretty important for akimbo madness, since reloading is a pain when you've got  both hands full.

But you could swap an FA mod for easy breakdown since the easy breakdown's less crucial, what with the whole point of trying to make the gun hard to notice until the firing starts.  Besides, the guy who can work 2 guns at once must have the agility necessary to drop a handful of dice on a palming check and easy breakdown doesn't solve your "radar can still see bullets" problem.

[UmaroVI]

Huh, I never did notice that the Ares Crusader already has a factored-in Extended Clip. That's one thing Gun Heaven got right - listing the actual integral mods by name at the end.

[Kontact]

A page per gun allows that luxury for sure.

[CanRay]

I want the one with the kaff cupholder built into it.