[Dragonslayer]

My Gm, and myself when I GM, don't put our players in no win situations.

[DWC]

"And then a random corporate security goon with a grenade launcher kills all of you" does make for a rather lame end to a story.

[ZeConster]

Well, excepting PCs who can burn Edge to live, is there anyone who thinks that you shouldn't die if you're point blank for three grenades at the same time?

The problem lies in not granting the targets any chance to get out of point-blank range, and making it ridiculously easy to land those three grenades in the same spot.

[tequila]

Note: impact detonated grenades use normal Ranged Combat tests.  p182 under Motion Sensor.

[DWC]

Good point.  That brings up an even more hilarious situation, since it means someone unaware that you're starting to shell them is actually easier to hit than the 1 meter diameter circle that they are standing in.

[KommissarK]

32P? Where is that coming from?

It comes from firing a semiautomatic burst from an MGL-12 semiautomatic grenade launcher.  Since it's a burst, you only make one attack roll, which means all three grenades hit the same location.  You get the full damage of the first, plus half damage for the 2nd and half damage for the 3rd.  It's not cheap, at 300Y per Complex Action, but it will get results.  That result will be a bunch of dead people, or a bunch of unconscious people if you use flashbangs.

Maybe I'm just thinking with the rules a bit strictly, but isn't a semi auto burst just going to cause the defense modifier of the target to suffer a -2 penalty?

[Michael Chandra]

It would for bullets. These are explosions with overlapping blasts.

[KarmaInferno]

Semi auto burst grenades work remarkably well against Barrens gang roadblocks. And the MGL is obtainable at chargen! Even for Missions!



On a related note, has anyone found where you use the Sensor rating on Missiles? The rules for firing rockets and missiles don't seem to mention Sensor assisted firing.



-k

[Michael Chandra]

Aside from p184 Active Targetting, which mentions breaking a sensor lock, I can't find a thing. Likely something you want to submit to the FAQ.

[ZombieAcePilot]

There are rules for using sensors for vehicle mounted weapons, give those a try.

[KarmaInferno]

Yeah, got that answer from the FAQ thread, just roll a Sensor test from that section and ignore the bits that  mention vehicles.

There should probably an errata in the Missile combat section adding a comment about the Sensor test though. "Missiles may take advantage of Sensor Assisted Targeting (pg184), using their Sensor Rating."


-k

[SoulGambit]

Actually, for the sake of being pedantic, lets explore what KommissarK is saying. My general philosophy is that the rules do what they say they do, and nothing more/less. Why should grenades deal +damage when being hit with three bullets doesn't deal more damage? The effects of semi-automatic burst is "-2 Defense." Why should it do more?

[KarmaInferno]

That is a good point. Both positions are reasonable. -2 defense only, or also add the effects of 1x + 0.5x + 0.5x grenade DVs? I do think it could stand some clarification. Perhaps add it to the FAQ thread?


-k

[sylanna]

p. 183 "multiple simultaneous blasts" kicks in when using semi-automatic bursts with grenade launchers. It looks like this rule was specifically made for the SAB, because the explosions have to occur on the same initiative score. Different caracters throwing multiple grenades will never have to use the simultaneous blasts rule.

[markelphoenix]

p. 183 "multiple simultaneous blasts" kicks in when using semi-automatic bursts with grenade launchers. It looks like this rule was specifically made for the SAB, because the explosions have to occur on the same initiative score. Different caracters throwing multiple grenades will never(<1% of cases) have to use the simultaneous blasts rule.

Actually, with triggering their detonation wirelessly, you can pre-throw several grenades and then trigger them to detonate. In a recent run, I placed 3 flash bangs near an entrance. Me and them team extracted our target via stealth and Improved Invisibility. Once we cleared the blast radius, I detonated the flash bangs on the group that came to investigate the commotion within the prison chamber. The 'boss' and five of his goons ended up having a really bad day while we continued making our escape through the complex.

Also, imagine a scenario where you have some heavy opposition against a secured door. You and your team also have full cover. You throw over toward their position at a penalty, but even if you screw it, scatter rules aren't that bad, especially with hand tossed ordinance. By the time you have your second or third grenade over (likely 2nd ini pass), you can detonate them all, assuming they haven't fallen back through the door or started lobbing grenades back. This is completely separate from anything else your team does (suppressive fire, conjuring a f6 spirit to keep'em occupied, then having it dematerialize before you detonate, etc.)