[farothel]

I think it depends on the location and the type of licence you want.  'Everyday' things like driver's licence shouldn't be a problem and if your SINner character is a mage or adept, this fact is known and he/she has probably a magic licence as well.  In fact, for the latter licence it should be included in the background of the character how and why she got awakened and a licence.

For guns it's a totally different thing.  tasers are not an issue and I would say light pistols can be legally purchased/licenced without much problem either (except in certain locations).  Assault riffles is another matter entirely, althought in some locations that's not a problem either.  I think it depends on how much detail you want to get into during play.

[Mäx]

For guns it's a totally different thing.  tasers are not an issue and I would say light pistols can be legally purchased/licenced without much problem either (except in certain locations).  Assault riffles is another matter entirely, althought in some locations that's not a problem either.  I think it depends on how much detail you want to get into during play.

For my Sasha who's an armed escort(combination of a bodyguard and an escort, inspired by one of the older rule books mention people like that) with her real SIN, i kinda assumed while building her that anythink up to a machine pistol shouldn't seem too much out of place for a licenced bodyguard and there isn't much need to carry anything bigger then that when not actually on a shadowrun

[Redwulfe]

Well, Finally got my hands on a copy of Neo-anarchist Guide to NA, I remember it being useful but man is it still ever. though out of date that is easy to render, but the security ratings of the different areas of NYC the information on Passes the amendments to the constitution and Legal codes and crimes and punishment section on the UCAS as well as the conversion weight of the UCAS dollar are still very relevant in the game. As far as this topic goes I found out there are more passes than what we thought:

Resident Passes- Corporate sponsored resident, Gets automatic enrollment into Doc Wagon, Medvac, access to exclusive VIP areas, vehicle permit and discounts in the city. Reviewed every 5 years.
---Solid White: Only have homes and property in NYC
---White with a Green stripe: Have a home or property outside of NYC as well as your one inside the city.

Work Passes- For those Wage slaves who Live in NYC but are not corporate sponsored, which doesn't mean you don't work for the corps. Reviewed every year or at the request of the NYPD or MDC.
---Blue with White stripe: Live and work in NYC
---Blue with Red stripe: Live in NYC but work outside of it.

Temporary passes- Everyone else if your a legal. Reviewed by pass type or by request of the NYPD or MDC.
---Red: Those who live outside the city but work in it. Reviewed every 6 months.
---Red with Grey stripe: Guest card. Reveiwed once a month and you should have applied for your red one by then.

Corporate Special Guests- These function as cards above but get reviewed every 6 months.
---Grey: Functions as White.
---Grey with Red stripe: Functions as Blue.

Restricted or Criminal Pass- These are given to felons or those who have committed 5 misdemeanors within a 5 year period. Also know as a right to hassle card. Reviewed every 5 years.
---Black with a White stripe: Resident criminal
---Black with a Blue stripe: Working class criminal
---Black with a Red stripe: Temporary criminal
---Black with a Grey stripe: Corporate sponsored criminal.

Not only does your pass count as your ID but it is also your credstick in New York. All IDs have a dot on the pass to indicate the level of credstick but they didn't tell you what the dot colors are. White passes are either Platinum or Gold equivalents, blue or red are either Silver or Standard, and gray runs the range from Standard to Platinum, depending on the wishes of the sponsoring Corp. Blacks are always Standard. Since they have added an Ebony level to credit accounts and have changed the way credsticks work I have added Ebony to the White pass and just use this to indicate the account given to you with your pass by citigroup since they sit on the MDC it made since to me. This does not stop you from using outside funds from another bank but it is logged at any citigroup terminal that you did so. To avoid this datatrail most Runners request to be paid via a certified credstick and though not able to be used everywhere can get them what they want through a fixer.

So that is the pass situation in NYC. I know that this is information in a SR book but the info is out of date and way out of print so I don't think i crossed a line posting it here for other NYC GM to use, if that is not the case please say so and I will remove this post haste.

Thanks,
Red

[Mäx]

Not only does your pass count as your ID but it is also your credstick in New York.

I would assume that just like credsticks, these passes would be think of the past in 2072 and your pass info is just broadcasted by your commlink along with your SIN info.

[Redwulfe]

Yes according to rotten apple it is part of your profile and must be displayed at all times, while in NYC. they even have a process for determining if someone is in Hidden mode and dispatch officers to the seen if someone is. It's basically illegal to be in Hidden mode anywhere in NYC. Of course in the terminal or the pit they don't really enforce that or many other laws. the only thing I am changeing is that it is not a credstick but an account given to pass holders by Citigroup. many of the things presented in the Neo-A's guide are outdated, but you can get info out of there to use with the Rotten apple supplement to give a more rounded look at NYC. Until they give more info in 4th that is.

Red

[Charybdis]

Or part of the Lifestyle.  I mean, driver's license has to be part of the vehicle maintenance...

Good idea to take into account the lifestyle. I don't think I'll refuse driver's licence to a SINner player with lifestyle under "low" but for some others licences it can be determinant.

This seems like a good guideline.

What sort of lifestyle/qualities etc would justify a SINner PC having a firearms license though? This is the OP question.

I can imagine someone with a good background from Law Enforcement or something might be legit, but I can't think of any actual qualities that would justify it (don't have my books handy. Damned work intruding on my gaming life!)

[Fizzygoo]

Or part of the Lifestyle.  I mean, driver's license has to be part of the vehicle maintenance...

Good idea to take into account the lifestyle. I don't think I'll refuse driver's licence to a SINner player with lifestyle under "low" but for some others licences it can be determinant.

I'd go a different route; Driver's licenses are part of a SIN (real or fake), as they're a form of ID that in most cases isn't renewed on a monthly (or even yearly basis). If the Law pulls a runner over how is the Law going to determine if the runner is legally allowed to operate a vehicle? If you go by lifestyle...there's nothing tied to that. Lifestyle can be paying under the table or with bartered goods/services (even for Luxury levels as in "I work for the Yaks, they let me use this penthouse") just as much as legally owning property. But if it's ownership...that's tied to an ID (SSN, Driver's License, etc...all 2070's form of SIN). Lifestyle equals basic needs (and the quality to which they are met) for the character, ID/SINs equal what rights, privileges, and restraints governmental society allows/imposes upon the character.

If a character gets a fake SIN (and I heavily push that on my players at character creation) then I go with "a license to operate basic vehicles is included with that." And if I ever get to the point where the PCs have been running the shadows for over 5 years and haven't had to ditch their fake SINs then I can pull them over and have the cops say, "looks like your driver's license is expired, ma'am." BAM! BAM! BAM! (cause when I was fifteen and first playing Shadowrun all the cops ever did was say, "Halt!" shoot three times to kill then, "or I'll shoot!")

I'm actually disappointed that there are no guidelines for making legal purchases anywhere in the source books. I mean, come on, some of us actually do take the SINner quality! What does a legal gun license cost? It should certainly be a lot less than the 600 big ones a decent fake will run you.

I agree, I'd like to see a general "legit" license cost list. In older SR, for pistols it was 200¥ for a permit to own a pistol and ¥500 to transport/carry it, rifles were 300¥/600¥, but assault rifles were just listed as needing a corporate or security license (no listed cost...though it might be hiding in other sections) (Shadowtech, pg. 103). So based on those older costs...fake licenses should cost more (though with the SR4A cost being rating x 100¥ it's comparable not outrageous).

[esprism]

I'd go a different route; Driver's licenses are part of a SIN (real or fake) ...

The idea was to determine the legal licences owned by a SINner at creation. If a character has a very low lifestyle there's no reason to give him a licence linked to a very expensive activity. Licences will be part of the official SIN.

For illegal licences, rules exists.

[Charybdis]

*BUMP*

What sort of lifestyle/qualities etc would justify a SINner PC having a firearms license though? This is the OP question.

I can imagine someone with a good background from Law Enforcement or something might be legit, but I can't think of any actual qualities that would justify it (don't have my books handy. Damned work intruding on my gaming life!)

[John Shull]

Firearms permits would go with the gray jobs in Shadowrun.  Private Investigator, freelance security, actual security (dayjob), nature guide on awakened lands, licensed gunsmiths,  or gun collectors.  There isn't much said about professional speed shooting or trap shooting as a sport but a licensed player could have many tricked out guns.  Might even have a Johnson hire a runner to have a shooting competition against other shootists.  A Topshot of the Johnson set.  It could be a interesting change of pace to have rules to be played by, actually to only appear to be played by, and many skills competitions. 

[BTL Bailey]

Shadowtech actually has prices listed for a wide variety of licenses, as well as the penalties & fines for not having them. I use these as guidelines for my SINner players if they want to keep things on the up and up with the Star/Knights.

Weapon Permits pertaining to John Q. Citizen
Class A: Small Bladed Weapon, under 18 centimeters (no cost listed)
Class B: Large Bladed Weapon, cutting edge over 18cm $100 for possession, $250 for transport
Class C: Blunt Weapon, includes clubs, batons and all shock weapons (no cost listed)
Class D: Projectile Weapons (spears, bows, crossbows) $125 for possession, $300 for transport
Class E: Pistol $200 for possession, $500 for transport
Class F: Rifle $300 for possession, $600 for transport

I hope that helps
-BTL

[Charybdis]

Shadowtech actually has prices listed for a wide variety of licenses, as well as the penalties & fines for not having them. I use these as guidelines for my SINner players if they want to keep things on the up and up with the Star/Knights.

Weapon Permits pertaining to John Q. Citizen
Class A: Small Bladed Weapon, under 18 centimeters (no cost listed)
Class B: Large Bladed Weapon, cutting edge over 18cm $100 for possession, $250 for transport
Class C: Blunt Weapon, includes clubs, batons and all shock weapons (no cost listed)
Class D: Projectile Weapons (spears, bows, crossbows) $125 for possession, $300 for transport
Class E: Pistol $200 for possession, $500 for transport
Class F: Rifle $300 for possession, $600 for transport

I hope that helps
-BTL

These are all just transport licenses though (which in Australia only covers moving these things around in nicely packaged gun cases).

What about the equivalent of a rent-a-cop's 'License to carry' which is the more important issue for a Shadowrunner.

Further more, there's the License to carry a Concealed weapon, which is more important for PI's etc.

[BTL Bailey]

These are all just transport licenses though (which in Australia only covers moving these things around in nicely packaged gun cases).

What about the equivalent of a rent-a-cop's 'License to carry' which is the more important issue for a Shadowrunner.

Further more, there's the License to carry a Concealed weapon, which is more important for PI's etc.

The Transport license in Shadowtech is a carry license. It does not give specifics as to open or concealed.

Shadowtech p 105
Possession : The owning or carrying of equipment or weapons designated as restricted access.
Transport: The act of carrying or transporting said items, either on one's person or in a vehicle.

In my state of Florida we have permits for conceal carry. Open carry is only for law enforcement officers. As long as we keep the guns and ammo in cases and are separate from each other we can move them around in our vehicles, provided we are doing something like going hunting, going to the gun range, etc no permit is required. Laws vary by state in the US, I think the possession and transport license was listed for completeness with that in mind. Some states require permits to buy & own with separate licenses for conceal/open carry. Some states don't. Your mileage may vary.

I was simply quoting an in game resource that answered his question. It's also stated that these are UCAS laws. I interpret them as permit to own a gun or rifle and a separate license for carry/transport. I understand things may be different in the land of Drop Bears. Personally I'd love to see an up to date listing in game for different countries and the legality of certain good. Vice makes mention in the shadow talk about some things are perfectly fine and legal in one country and in another you'll get dragged through the town square as an example to others. I think I heard something about Singapore banning bubble gum and some country in Africa banning flatulence in public. The world is full of wacky laws that I'd love to utilize to screw with my players.

[Charybdis]

The Transport license in Shadowtech is a carry license. It does not give specifics as to open or concealed.

..SNIP...

I was simply quoting an in game resource that answered his question. It's also stated that these are UCAS laws. I interpret them as permit to own a gun or rifle and a separate license for carry/transport. I understand things may be different in the land of Drop Bears. Personally I'd love to see an up to date listing in game for different countries and the legality of certain good. Vice makes mention in the shadow talk about some things are perfectly fine and legal in one country and in another you'll get dragged through the town square as an example to others. I think I heard something about Singapore banning bubble gum and some country in Africa banning flatulence in public. The world is full of wacky laws that I'd love to utilize to screw with my players.

You did good

The land of Drop Bears is damn harsh on gun laws (see exhibits <A> and <B>). It's near impossible to get a legal permit for a handgun (except limited caliber sport-pistols)., and Semi-Auto rifles are likewise banned for civilians.

Can't buy a BB gun or slingshot off the street. How's that for strict?

[bigity]

Seems decidedly anti-Australian too.