[Seras]

Hi guys,

In the backround characters often have more than one datajack or talentjack.

the rules however say you can only use one at the same time...

What are in game advantages of having more than one Jack ?

Thanks Seras

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Aside from simple redundancy, the benefit to having multiple DataJacks is stacking Noise Reduction.

There were other niche reasons in prior editions, but AFAIK none of those carried over into 5th.

[Mirikon]

Other than noise reduction? Being able to get a direct connection to two different devices, which could be useful for linking another person into the connection while you check out a stand-alone device, or to have truly secure conversations with whoever you're talking to.

[Michael Chandra]

Aside from simple redundancy, the benefit to having multiple DataJacks is stacking Noise Reduction.

There were other niche reasons in prior editions, but AFAIK none of those carried over into 5th.

Which is still an utter ridiculous ruling but alas it's official. -_-

Anyway, I imagine if you plug devices into different ones you can switch?

[Kiirnodel]

Citation on the Noise canceling stacking?

I don't remember that ever being officially clarified.

[Seras]

Anyway, I imagine if you plug devices into different ones you can switch?

Does anyone know what kind of action that would be ? A complex, a simple or even a free ?

[Jack_Spade]

Citation on the Noise canceling stacking?

I don't remember that ever being officially clarified.

There obviously is no clear ruling one way or the other, but
"To figure out how noise is affecting you, start with the noise level from real-world distance to your target
and add the noise level from any other applicable situations, then subtract any noise reduction you are using."
p.230 core
indicates, that there is no stacking limit in regard to noise reduction.

Meanwhile, the Antennae augmentation from Chrome Flesh does specify a stacking limit:
"Each antenna, to a maximum of three, reduces Noise by 1 for the user. And only the user." p.74 Chrome Flesh
So that could be taken as an indication that if there is no stacking limit mentioned, there is no stacking limit.

[Michael Chandra]

Citation on the Noise canceling stacking?

I don't remember that ever being officially clarified.

Asides from Aaron's claim, which I vehemently oppose with common sense, not as far as I know?

[Kiirnodel]

Citation on the Noise canceling stacking?

I don't remember that ever being officially clarified.

There obviously is no clear ruling one way or the other, but
"To figure out how noise is affecting you, start with the noise level from real-world distance to your target
and add the noise level from any other applicable situations, then subtract any noise reduction you are using."
p.230 core
indicates, that there is no stacking limit in regard to noise reduction.

Meanwhile, the Antennae augmentation from Chrome Flesh does specify a stacking limit:
"Each antenna, to a maximum of three, reduces Noise by 1 for the user. And only the user." p.74 Chrome Flesh
So that could be taken as an indication that if there is no stacking limit mentioned, there is no stacking limit.

For me, I generally assume that gear doesn't stack with itself, unless it explicitly states otherwise. Otherwise we get situations like people trying to buy 2 sets of Muscle Augmentation to get a total of +4, or the medic using two medkits to stack up a huge bonus on First Aid.

The Antenna states that each one grants noise reduction, up to three. This explicitly allows the stacking, while a Datajack just gives "Rating 1 noise reduction," which doesn't.

[Marcus]

Attributes have very specific rules on amount that can be gained and how they stack.

Noise Reduction does not carry anything like the same systemic value or systematic limit. This question has been asked and answered before. Example NPC including many of the street legends pack more then one jack, and the assumption was the noise cancellation stacked.

I don't think this is worth the fight, Kiir.

[Kiirnodel]

Attributes have very specific rules on amount that can be gained and how they stack.

Noise Reduction does not carry anything like the same systemic value or systematic limit. This question has been asked and answered before. Example NPC including many of the street legends pack more then one jack, and the assumption was the noise cancellation stacked.

It doesn't really strike me as systematic, there isn't an overarching rule about bonuses stacking anywhere.

And street legends packing more than one datajack is more likely an allusion to the bygone era when more than one datajack was required. I've never seen a written mention one of these characters' noise cancellation (one way or the other).

I don't think this is worth the fight, Kiir.

Some people may have assumed that datajacks stack to an infinite amount of noise cancellation, but I never did. I'm not really fighting, it was more of a "wait, did I miss an actual clarification?" And the answer is no. So I will continue operating on my standard of: Identical sources do not stack unless explicitly stated that they do.

[Marcus]

It doesn't really strike me as systematic, there isn't an overarching rule about bonuses stacking anywhere.

Can't raise an attribute more then +4 Kiir, unless the device specifically calls it out. As far as I know that's intended to be Universal at this point. Even to the point where matrix attributes are limiting normal attribute boosts, see the errata on CF matrix attribute boosts.

As to noise Reduction, Noise like BGC, as a mechanic that's simply become arbitrarily larger then it ever needed to be. If someone want to spend the essence and cash to have pile data jacks I don't see a downside to allowing them the pile noise reduction that can go with it.  It's not like an efficient purchase in terms of essence or cash.

I don't have a problem with saying things shouldn't stack without being explicitly called, but then simply means we need to explicitly call it in case the datajacks.

[Kiirnodel]

Can't raise an attribute more then +4 Kiir, unless the device specifically calls it out. As far as I know that's intended to be Universal at this point. Even to the point where matrix attributes are limiting normal attribute boosts, see the errata on CF matrix attribute boosts.

I'm aware of the augmented maximum limit, but that isn't a rule about things stacking. And in particular, we are talking about same items stacking with themselves. If we don't presume that identical items don't stack with one-another, then you're going to get someone trying to implant themselves with 4 suprathyroid glands or something. To me, that is clearly not the intent.

I don't have a problem with saying things shouldn't stack without being explicitly called, but then simply means we need to explicitly call it in case the datajacks.

I'm not sure I follow that last sentence, I think you accidentally left out a few words. While you might not see a problem with letting people stack up a huge pile of noise reduction. I don't see a reason to make an exception to no stacking. Stacking datajacks is simply not a huge necessity...

[Marcus]

Well it does cover things stacking, So I'm not sure where your confusion on that subject is coming from. The errata reads very clearly on that subject. I'm pretty sure one of the examples in Stat infusion specifically called out not allowing a magic bonus to take effect while a derived attribute increase was in effect, it may been the other way around but the example hold ether direction.


But noise reduction isn't an attribute, it's fairly meaningless mechanic.  So where is the harm in adding line to datajack description that says they stack with themselves Kiir? It's what Folks have been doing for years now.

[Kiirnodel]

Yes, I know that the augmented maximum "covers things stacking" by giving a maximum that they can stack up to. But that's not what I'm talking about. I was talking about a rule that covers the use of duplicate items to reach that maximum with little effort.

Multiple suprathyroid glands, trying to use two medkits, taking enhanced articulation multiple times, and other things like that. These (to my mind) fall into a category where common sense should tell you that these don't work. However, the rules never explicitly deny them.

In my opinion, datajacks fall into a similar position. The wireless bonus is that the implant allows you to use the augmented person's body as a makeshift grounding wire which helps mitigate noise. Having more than one datajack wouldn't make that any more effective. This is my "head-cannon," which is what feeds into why I have this stance. That reasoning sort of explains why nothing needs to be plugged into the datajacks to benefit from the wireless bonus. If I wanted to make the item make even more sense, I would probably require the device to be plugged in directly to the datajack. Then the issue would solve itself, because only one device could only be plugged in at a time, and multiple datajacks would have the benefit of applying the bonus to more devices.


Notably, I've never run it as multiple datajacks stacking, and I've never seen anyone attempt to do so. In the last several years, since the start of 5th edition, it has never come up in any of the games that I've run. So I've never met these Folks that have been doing it for years. Just because some people have ran with it that way, doesn't make it right. I've seen NPCs that have multiple datajacks, but all of them were "old-school" in some way, with the multiple datajacks being relics of the previous ages of the matrix where having multiple datajacks allowed you to connect to more devices at once. None of the NPCs that were built with multiple datajacks had any indication of having extra noise reduction because of them, so this can't be used as precedence.

And while Noise can be a fairly meaningless mechanic, I don't think there should be ways to simply make it laughably trivial. Just like Background Count, when used in the right way, noise can be an interesting challenge to deal with. The ways to get large amounts of noise reduction are fairly specific, usually with limitations of some sort. Just buying up a bunch of cheap implants doesn't seem like an appropriate way to deal with it. Particularly when Antenna cost the same amount of essence but don't stack infinitely. Datajacks do not exist solely for the purpose of noise reduction (its an added bonus), so why would they work better for that purpose than the cyberware that is designed exclusively to do it.