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So has the release of the core book been pushed back?

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Iron Serpent Prince

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« Reply #45 on: <08-16-19/1128:32> »
This is why we can't have nice things. :-[

Horse hockey.

Other production companies do just fine while dealing with these same issues.

And their customers get nice things.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #46 on: <08-16-19/1148:09> »
Nice thing: Errata volunteers receiving access months in advance for supplying fixes, and demo team receiving access month in advance for preparation.

Non-nice-thing: Demo team not being able to prepare in advance.
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

Bamce

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« Reply #47 on: <08-16-19/1220:23> »
This is why we can't have nice things. :-[

They did the same thing three(?) years ago with street grimoire.

The code is irrelevant anyway as the store isnt selling the book to use it.

Gamerdad46

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« Reply #48 on: <08-16-19/1327:26> »
Arrrgh, just sell me the PDF.

Typhus

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« Reply #49 on: <08-16-19/1341:54> »
It leaked?  Now that is just rich. 

That's a thing CGL should be grateful for actually. 

Here's why. 

6E is sitting at a crisis-level PR event, as I see it.  Cata is poised to hose even more customers than the ~800 who bought this mess of a book already.  I would venture to guess that over 775 of those who bought the book are not on this forum, and can't assist in find errata or pointing out where players are going to trip up or feel confused or struggle with understanding a change.  However, the more people that can see it before it hits the shelves, the more that can tell you the issues, and give you a chance to fix more issues.  You have a wider feedback pool, and can operate with less blinders on.  You may think players are going to intuit certain things, but maybe they won't.  You have minimal feedback outside this forum to go on.  Also, the less people that buy the busted paper version is better for CGL in the long term, as there will be less refunds to go through later.  The book is unusable in its current condition, and a black eye to the company.  CGL could prevent more harm by pulling back NOW and doing a broader fix. 

As Bamce pointed out, there's no public PDF available yet.  That also hurts visibility to the reaction and feedback.  If the PDF had been on sale already, you'd be getting that feedback from an even wider spread of folks, and could diagnose and repair even more effectively.  Upset customers could be reassured that the PDF would be updated, and that errata teams were already on it, and so on.  Their investment could at least be made good on.  GenCon goers have codes to get PDF books with.  While they are now the proud owners of a $50 to $200 paperweight, at least they can eventually run the game from the updated PDF.  Harm yes, but not unrecoverable.  One self-inflicted black eye only.

It worries me that CGL and some of the folks here who represent them don't seem to understand that this is an actual crisis for CGL.  I know you most likely couldn't say so if you did agree, but it seems like the notion expressed by some is that this is fine or at least acceptable.  No. This is not normal, it is not okay, and not good for the business in the long run.  Thanks to a leak, you now may have a wider window into the general public reaction to this.  That's a benefit in this unique case that should be leveraged, not grumped about.  These are the canaries in your coal mine.  They are singing loud and clear.  How many people on this forum alone have expressed that they are walking away from 6E?  It may not just be some die hards who don't want to play with this Edge thing.  Preference is only one factor in this.  What's done is done, and hopefully this leak can help you understand the scope of the issue here, and urge the right kind of action on it.

Cata needs to acknowledge the degree of error in judgement here and respond accordingly.  Not just slink a corrected PDF out the door later, or drop new errata docs and keep hiding from the customers.  It's not too late, but the clock is ticking.  Hopefully someone here can get them to see this, and do something better here.  You cannot let 6E be sold in this condition, you just simply cannot.  Hopefully this is being said to someone inside CGL management.  If not, someone go say it.  Right now.  Pick up a phone, walk in an office, close a laptop on someone's fingers, whatever.  Get their attention somehow.  For your own sake, if no one else's.

Mistakes happen.  It's what we do about them that matters. 

Go matter.

-Typhus the Canary, Coal Mine #6W.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #50 on: <08-16-19/1352:59> »
I know you most likely couldn't say so if you did agree,
You already were explained what the NDA entails: It's about facts, not opinions. I don't appreciate you once again making false censorship claims. It's already bad enough you keep claiming the book is fully unusable, simply because it's not perfect. Yes, there's some bad stuff. Some things even experienced players aren't sure of. Some newbies would need a hand with. We'll gladly help them. But that doesn't make the entire thing unusable.

You want canaries? I ran a Beginner Box event. My brother another. People loved it. It takes 2 turns to get used to the Edge system, and from that point forth things were extremely fluent.

And neither positive nor negative reactions make people leaking the product a GOOD thing. That's utter craziness. Do you honestly believe that the people that illegally download the book will provide feedback worth the lost revenue? When there's ~900 people who already own the book, an Errata Team and dozens and dozens of Demo Team Agents that already combed through the book? Of course not. So don't claim a leaked book is a good thing, just because SR6 has things you don't like so you'd rather have all of Shadowrun destroyed.
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

Iron Serpent Prince

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« Reply #51 on: <08-16-19/1405:28> »
And neither positive nor negative reactions make people leaking the product a GOOD thing. That's utter craziness. Do you honestly believe that the people that illegally download the book will provide feedback worth the lost revenue? When there's ~900 people who already own the book, an Errata Team and dozens and dozens of Demo Team Agents that already combed through the book? Of course not. So don't claim a leaked book is a good thing, just because SR6 has things you don't like so you'd rather have all of Shadowrun destroyed.

Take your self pity party elsewhere.

There are other production companies that give away their mechanics for free and still make bank on their print and PDF products.

So what makes Catalyst different?

Perhaps it has nothing to do with with a product leaking, dontcha think?

curiousNormie

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« Reply #52 on: <08-16-19/1414:55> »
If you saw the code, you'd know just how badly CGL screwed up by using it.  They had literally one code, it was used for everyone, and it wasn't tied to a purchase.  People are awful and the assumption should always be that they'll steal when they can.  If they'd just used a key generator and watermarked the copies normally through DTRPG, this isn't (as bad of) an issue.

My understanding is the leaked pdf appeared before the codes ever worked. Whoever did it was someone trusted by CGL, and probably under NDA.

Gamerdad46

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« Reply #53 on: <08-16-19/1457:58> »
Woah folks let’s calm down a bit. It IS just a game. I want the book but I don’t want folks tearing at each other. Yeah there are some poor decisions with the way the release is going but this isn’t life and death stuff.

We can express our frustration without being harsh about it.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #54 on: <08-16-19/1506:46> »
I do agree that CGL keeps things too close to their chest sometimes. So some info on 'hey, delays due to X' more publicly would be nice. But I can't fault their 'we won't state a release date until we have the books in hand and know we can make it' policy, because they've been burned before.
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

FastJack

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« Reply #55 on: <08-16-19/1538:26> »
Woah folks let’s calm down a bit. It IS just a game. I want the book but I don’t want folks tearing at each other. Yeah there are some poor decisions with the way the release is going but this isn’t life and death stuff.

We can express our frustration without being harsh about it.
Thanks GD, a lot of people seem to forget that.

And, with that...

This thread is locked until head cool off.