Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Gamerdad46 on <08-08-19/1737:35>
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Hi all, still a bit new out here but just wanted to ask the question about the core book. Most sites that have it up for pre sale still seem to say the 15th but some of the posts I’ve read out here say otherwise. I’m not seeing anything official from any part of the main site though. Just wondering if anyone has any clarity about it.
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There was talk during GenCon about physical release in October and PDF release a bit before then. Don't know the exact details.
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I believe the PDF was supposed to be one month before the release of the physical book.
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So if their release schedule holds, though I'm not confident in that at this point, then this will be the first edition in which the GM Screen drops before the physical book.
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If the core book is pushed back, I would expect the majority of the other products to be pushed out accordingly or, best case, they all release concurrently.
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Man, I hope so. Give it another balance, editing, and errata pass before printing more copies. I'd even buy a new copy.
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Man, I hope so. Give it another balance, editing, and errata pass before printing more copies. I'd even buy a new copy.
Way to late for that. The printing is done. A second printing might happen but not this year for sure. Edits and errata, while they should be included, have never been part of CGLs strategy. Better to wait and advertise a revised printing at about the 2 year mark.
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That’s what I would think. Books have been printed, there is no turning back at this point. So I guess my question would remain, what would the hold up be? Clean up the errata? Printing more copies? I mean books are out there at this point, even if just to a small group, what would the point be of holding it back unless there is some odd logistical reason we are unaware of?
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Have plans changed from this:
https://imgur.com/a/zDDiNnt
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That’s what I would think. Books have been printed, there is no turning back at this point. So I guess my question would remain, what would the hold up be? Clean up the errata? Printing more copies? I mean books are out there at this point, even if just to a small group, what would the point be of holding it back unless there is some odd logistical reason we are unaware of?
Slow boat from China.
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That’s what I would think. Books have been printed, there is no turning back at this point. So I guess my question would remain, what would the hold up be? Clean up the errata? Printing more copies? I mean books are out there at this point, even if just to a small group, what would the point be of holding it back unless there is some odd logistical reason we are unaware of?
Slow boat from China.
Customs clearance
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At least they made it OUT of China. (https://boingboing.net/2019/03/25/the-sassoon-files.html) I hope.
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Have plans changed from this:
https://imgur.com/a/zDDiNnt
I don't believe so.
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Maybe the delay is so they can print up physical copies of the 10-page errata they published and stick it in with each copy of CRB6?
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Is there a description of the different versions? All I have heard about the core rulebook editions is that a Limited Edition and Executive Edition exist and their respective prices. But what do they bring for the price hike? Were the different editions available at GenCon?
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What is the difference between the Limited and Executive edition of the CRB? They look... similar.
The limited edition (below, to the right of the regular edition) has a kevlar cover and the image of the samurai leaping to attack. The executive edition (below, to the left of the regular), has a kevlar cover as well, a different graphic on the front (it can be seen in the video), comes in a slip-case, and is a numbered edition.
(http://www.shadowruntabletop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/SR-Book-Collection_sized-910x391.png)
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Thank you, Michael Chandra!
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I picked up the CRB at GenCon and they gave us a PDF download code for it but it looks like it's for when it's actually available through the CGL store :( womp womp
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I picked up the CRB at GenCon and they gave us a PDF download code for it but it looks like it's for when it's actually available through the CGL store :( womp womp
I talked with CGL customer service over the weekend, and they were estimating the PDF being released by the end of next week (grain of salt, I know).
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What I don’t understand is the damn silence behind all this. I mean the first thing that comes up when you search for the release date is the 15th. Now if they know it’s not going to hit then, that’s fine. Just tell the damn stores that are posting that up. If you don’t know when that’s fine just say something. Just be clear with your audience, it’s not much to ask. I want to buy the book, support them. All I want is to know when or if not exactly when a good estimate.
Segmenting your audience like this is not cool. Where a precious few have it and the rest of the crowd is waiting around with no idea what the next step is.
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CGL has the policy they never announce street dates until certain. It does surprise me they haven't said it's postponed through more channels yet.
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While I am optimistic about 6E despite hearing various issues I have to admit that the delays and the fact that GenCon visitors get the CRB months before me is really irritating and seems like a completely foolish business strategy. It should have all been done on the day GenCon began. Additionally, it is also irritating that when I do receive my CRB it will be riddled with errors, per usual. I feel like this could have been easily avoided.
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That right there is the most irritating part to me, Shadowjack. It was not only foreseeable, it was known and not addressed, and there are active attempts to prevent reviewers from criticizing it. Cata knows how bad this was. They can't not. They even had a hotfix errata team in place because of it. This was no oops. This was deliberately printed and released in known-to-be unedited and incomplete condition. That may not rise to the level of fraud, but it certainly sinks to the level of hideously unethical. Just like using unpaid people to fix the problem does.
It was sooo avoidable too. If you absolutely had to do a GenCon release, the easiest way to address the issue proactively would have been to do what Pathfinder did and sell it as a Beta. Fans would have bought less maybe, but thanked Cata for that opportunity, and given feedback in droves to help it hit the mark. Goodwill restored, successful actual launch potential, and better and sustained sales over time. Course correction established, nerds rejoice.
Instead, now people have basically been ripped off by being sold a defective product. The issue is clear as day, and the wound is only going to deepen further than it has. I am assuming sales will be skidding to a halt after people see how bad it is. Might get the usual first wave numbers, but second wave is not something I would count on being good, even with an embarrassingly large errata doc as a functional second book so you can play the first one, or a corrected PDF, if that actually happens. Now you are jacking retailers up too. Double hit. Selling them a product customers will return. Now they will have to rethink then next time you publish something.
When people get to rate it on DTRPG, it's going to get bottomed out fast. QSR is already tanked on the numbers, ratings-wise. Once CGL loses control over the NDA reviewer situation, word will not be good. The marketing campaign alone reeks of intentional hiding of flaws.
Management decisions here are the textbook opposite of what to do and how to do it.
Consider who you are helping when you work on fixing the mess. Freelancers and Errata people, you are not in safe hands here. Rig your chutes now, if you haven't already.
I wish you luck, I really do.
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Well, said Typhus. I am pretty annoyed by this, there is no worse feeling as a customer when you buy a rule book and have to constantly read things over and over just to confirm they don't make sense and then hunt for errata.
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Thank you for expressing your opinion, Typhus. And thank you for taking the time to detail you're opinion as well. Being a moderator, I want to point out that by going into detail, the criticism can be seen as constructive, and should be an example to others that would just post that they hate the changes and the new rules suck. Even though we disagree on the subject, and I don't believe the product is a ripoff, especially since they outsold BattleTech at GenCon (and I'm still not seeing any of those books up for sale on eBay), I do appreciate you taking the time to give us your opinion on the matter.
The only thing I have to comment on is that you (and others) have been claiming there are active attempts to prevent reviewers from criticizing it. I'd love to see proof of that. If you're going to make the claim, back it up. I know we haven't silenced any criticism on these boards unless it was full of "colorful" language or they didn't not try to be constructive. Even in those cases, we didn't delete any posts, so they are still available for others to see.
Now, to get back on track for the original posters, the release was pushed back at GenCon. I'm not privy to the reasons why, but I suspect that they might be trying to get a second printing done with the hotfix errata (again, I'm not privy, so don't yell at me if it's not true). The timeline of when they are looking to release does tend to fit with sending an update to the printers, getting them printed, then waiting for them to ship from China, in my own opinion.
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The only thing I have to comment on is that you (and others) have been claiming there are active attempts to prevent reviewers from criticizing it
I was referring to the NDAs and whatever other restrictions reviewers have been placed under as a condition of being able to speak publicly about the product.
Even though we disagree on the subject, and I don't believe the product is a ripoff, especially since they outsold BattleTech at GenCon (and I'm still not seeing any of those books up for sale on eBay)
Book sales are no indicator of satisfaction, since the product was sight unseen. Nor are eBay re-sales any valid indicator this early on. While folks like me may form opinions fairly early, I would be surprised to learn that all 800 purchasers were of the same bent to consume it so quickly and pass judgement without playing it. It's literally been two weeks. Their determination as to being rooked may come after a month of attempting to play it and running across the issues then. They may also be content to suffer, not being as invested in the idea of a game company having good standards, or write it off as some do.
Fact is, it's failings are clear, and in big picture terms, it was an irresponsible, unethical, and self-defeating decision to have released in this form. That defines a rip off, not it's sales or return rates. Those don't enter the picture this early on. When you write a rule book and then leave out critical info about *the rules* and you knew you were doing it, you made a choice to sell crap. That's why we have things known as Lemon Laws around cars. Bad business people.
For what it's worth, just to clarify, I have no issue with how the forums are run, nor did I mean to insinuate anything about censorship here. You've been very clear about that, and you kindly putting up with my expressions of frustration should be plenty of proof for anyone who doubts that when you say it. Feel free to use that.
I can see the forums has it's own rules, and adheres to them well. I appreciate how that's done here. No complaints on that front. I appreciate your measured response.
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The only thing I have to comment on is that you (and others) have been claiming there are active attempts to prevent reviewers from criticizing it
I was referring to the NDAs and whatever other restrictions reviewers have been placed under as a condition of being able to speak publicly about the product.
Speaking for myself here... I say a lot of positive things about 6we because I all in all I like it, and I'd like to add that perspective as a contrast to those who say how they DON'T like it.
Naturally there are some things I don't like. The reason I don't talk about those things isn't because NDA is prohibiting me from airing negative opinions but because NDA is prohibiting me from talking about what I'm doing as part of the errata process. Naturally, I'm trying to help fix things I don't like, so things I don't like tend to end up falling under NDA.
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The only thing I have to comment on is that you (and others) have been claiming there are active attempts to prevent reviewers from criticizing it
I was referring to the NDAs and whatever other restrictions reviewers have been placed under as a condition of being able to speak publicly about the product.
well independent reviewers themselves like ENWorld (as far as I know) were not restricted by any NDAs, but they may have been provided limited material to work with (That I don't know either way), but those of who were writers and demo agents (which does include the 2 Actual Play groups that had early access) who had early access were limited by NDA and could only talk so much about specifics as things were released publicly. So I would say a claim of "active attempts at blocking criticism" is purely false
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So I would say a claim of "active attempts at blocking criticism" is purely false
And fair enough at that, I am no insider. I take you at your word, and retract the notion.
However, with absence of information, and a dog of a product, and reviewers clearly hedging their commentary in some corners, it can come across that way.
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Speaking for myself here... I say a lot of positive things about 6we because I all in all I like it, and I'd like to add that perspective as a contrast to those who say how they DON'T like it.
And just to be clear on my dislikes here: I don't necessarily hate the system as a system, though I can't be sure what the system is supposed to be, since it's so underbaked and imbalanced. The presentation of it is my real frustration.
If it were just a matter of not liking a dice system, woo woo, I would have shut up like I did about 5th. 5th had editing and layout issues that complicated the understanding and adoption of it, but those were something you can fight through. It had all the rules you needed to play, just too many of them for my taste. That was a case of a system that was just not for me. Same with Anarchy. I want something different.
I miss playing Shadowrun. I had hopes this would be good. It's not so much I don't want to use this book (though I can't imagine doing so at this point), it's that this book is not usable (which is distinct from "unplayable") in it's condition, and I have had to warn my fellow gamers against purchasing it on both the quality and the content basis.
I have no problem if people like it, or feel it balances out on the whole. More power to you, happy Shadowrunning. I would love to be wrong. I can only excoriate the ears on this forum to push for the improvement of the game, the company, and their own position in a structure that appears to be callous and abusive when viewed from the outside.
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I am literally uncapable of commenting on debates where I know there's a good fix in progress, because it's all locked down under strict NDA. Why? Because that's what the NDA is. Not 'hey I'm not allowed to review it', but 'ANY information you obtain through the private channels that is not yet publicly released, is strictly under NDA'. I can't go 'hey X is in errata process' because I am not authorised to do so. The NDA is preventing me from saying GOOD things.
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So I would say a claim of "active attempts at blocking criticism" is purely false
And fair enough at that, I am no insider. I take you at your word, and retract the notion.
However, with absence of information, and a dog of a product, and reviewers clearly hedging their commentary in some corners, it can come across that way.
I can also see that is also a fair statement
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The issue I have with all this NDA talk is that we have already had a limited public release (GenCon), but CGL is still holding the NDA leash on all the people who got early access to, or are currently working on, the product. There are too many posts of "Things are happening, but I can't talk about it". These posts do absolutely nothing to build customer confidence.
I got the CRB from GenCon, and after reading it through, I need to see action taken to fix whats in there. Not be told, see it. Telling me you're working on it means nothing when there is no transparency. Am I going to get an updated PDF when it goes on the website? Will I be able to exchange my bad physical copy of the CRB for a revised one? Am I stuck with the bad copy of the book and a 9 page errata (with more to come)?
And this isn't a jab at the writers or errata team. I can only assume you all are working to the best of your abilities. This is aimed at CGL corporate. They need to fix this, and they need to be up front, open, and honest about it. And they need to do this sooner than later.
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I know that sometimes when working on something like this saying too much can be damaging. But saying too little can be worse. From what I can see here there was some type of announcement at GenCon that the book was going to be pushed back. Why isn't there a note up on the site? I don't need every last little detail, just a little clarity from the source as to what is going on.
I'm not entitled to this of course. I know I'm just a drop in the bucket when it comes to sales of the book. And why should it bother me so much? It's just a book. Something about a game I won't be running for a few months anyway.
Well part of it is that I'm just a nerdy old man who wants to read a new version of a game I've been struggling to get off the ground with my group for years. And when I mean years I mean 30 years. While I can understand the core audience for the system might be a bit put off by the changes, I myself find them as a gateway to get this game off the ground. I've been running and playing various games for 30+ years and owned the OG CRB back when it was first released. I love the setting but the game was just too intimidating for anyone I've been running games for. This version seems to alleviate some of those concerns.
The other part of it is simply, I'm a customer. I want to buy their product. Others have purchased it, although it was limited, and the thought of that drives me up a wall. If no one had it I would probably let the whole thing slide. But that's not the case. If you were privileged enough to take a trip to GenCon you had the opportunity to purchase the book. Why purchase a book that has so much errata, which they could potentially be working to fix? I've played with errata for years, doesn't bother me. While I'd love the book to come out error free, it's just not that big a deal to me.
All that aside, there is a simple solution to the fans who would like to have it now. I'm sure there is a massive PDF just sitting around waiting to be put on sale. A PDF that you could correct and adjust for customers when updated with the errata. Release it. I'll buy that and the physical copy when available. I may be simplifying it a bit, but I'm not expecting by that much. You could be earning on the release right now, just put it out there.
Likely I'm just ranting for no reason and what will happen will happen. I'm sure I'll get over it. But I can't pretend that I'm not a bit annoyed.
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Ok, here is the most official thing I can tell you (based on what has been confirmed by Jason Hardy directly to me)
PDF's will be updated and if you purchased one you will get those updates for free as they are released ... I just don't know the anticipated release schedule.
Physical copies of the gencon release ... don't know about getting it replaced but I doubt it
as for NDA ... we can all talk openly about what is in the book and even say that yes we are working on it if it's a known issue or clarify it when we know the answer, but we can't divulge is what the solutions to the problems we are submitting are but that is only because we don't know if they will be approved and made official so we can't promote any kind of false information just because we say one thing and it gets shot down.
all of you other complaints would need addresses directly to CGL and I can't help you there
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Hey, I'm not slamming anyone here. Like I said I might be a bit annoyed, but I'm not mad or anything.
I thank you for everything you've been able to share. I've had a rough few weeks with some medical stuff going on and just kind of had my head somewhat fixated on the release. It was something I was looking forward to and having it kind of pulled away without any official statement put me out a bit.
I apologize if I was out of line, just wanted to express my frustration with a group of folks who might understand it a bit, and color my replies with something more than "I want it NOW". Which is basically all it comes down to anyway. Gaming is my big escape, even just reading through a new sourcebook. It puts all these medical issues I've been having on hold for a bit. I just bought the Beginner's Box so I could read through it and was hoping to put the CRB through it's paces.
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Hey, I'm not slamming anyone here. Like I said I might be a bit annoyed, but I'm not mad or anything.
I thank you for everything you've been able to share. I've had a rough few weeks with some medical stuff going on and just kind of had my head somewhat fixated on the release. It was something I was looking forward to and having it kind of pulled away without any official statement put me out a bit.
I apologize if I was out of line, just wanted to express my frustration with a group of folks who might understand it a bit, and color my replies with something more than "I want it NOW". Which is basically all it comes down to anyway. Gaming is my big escape, even just reading through a new sourcebook. It puts all these medical issues I've been having on hold for a bit. I just bought the Beginner's Box so I could read through it and was hoping to put the CRB through it's paces.
All good by me, my response was just more of general statement for everyone's benefit ... and certainly understand the disappointment as well
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I am literally uncapable of commenting on debates where I know there's a good fix in progress, because it's all locked down under strict NDA. Why? Because that's what the NDA is. Not 'hey I'm not allowed to review it', but 'ANY information you obtain through the private channels that is not yet publicly released, is strictly under NDA'. I can't go 'hey X is in errata process' because I am not authorised to do so. The NDA is preventing me from saying GOOD things.
Isn't that song getting old by now even for you Chandra? First it was I can't tell you about all the good stuff in the CRB b/c of NDA. Now I can't tell how awesome all the fixes for the mess that is the CRB b/c of NDA. It just starts sounding very familiar Chandra.
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Ok, here is the most official thing I can tell you (based on what has been confirmed by Jason Hardy directly to me)
This helps me out a bit. It would be nice if Mr Hardy would step onto some platform or another to address this so it's not hidden away on a forum thread as the only place the info lives.
At least now I can let people know corrections will be applied to digital purchases, but to hold off on the paper version. Thank you, Banshee. I appreciate your extra effort.
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The NDA is preventing me from saying GOOD things.
I hope that has been pointed out to the powers that be, but I don't expect any intel on that. Another lousy position they've put you in. Most unfair all around. Even case by case would be something.
A general statement by Mr Hardy would go a long way to helping the upset that's milling around. Moreso if there was any sense of a mea culpa in it. It would also put all the people here in a better spot, I would hope.
As for me contacting CGL, while I may have ascertained his email address awhile ago, I don't have any faith that rando complaino guy from the interwebz is likely to mean more than hearing it from those who work with him in some capacity. I'll file that away under "maybe later".
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This has been a nightmare.
When I was at gencon and purchased a copy of the book (dear god not for me, but for someone who I was shipping it back to), I was handed one of these pdf codes. When I asked the poor lady behind the counter when they would be availible she said that it was.
Que me coming back the next day (maybe she had meant that evening after the con closed) with the store page on my phone to ask “hey whats up”? And to get an answer from someone who may have been Mr Hardy himself, (not directly to me as he was a few feet away but making contact and interacting with me as I asked someone else about it) that it would be up later.
I then returned on the next day, having heard that they had sold out of the core book. Being a mod over on the subreddit I wanted to double check in person so i could answer folks directly on the sub. They indeed were out. The nice cgl guy that was there seemed to take offense to my question of “are you guys out of the non crazy priced editions”. To which I wish I had the ability to throw open a book and point at the broken technomancer rpegen I had discovered in a casual 5 minute flip through the book (it has two echos listed as complex forms and no hacking skill) and get an actual answer.
Then, to my shock and horror I find out that a pdf of the book has leaked all over the internet.
And even still, they havnt at least put the pdf up for sale.
Cgl, my dudes, your giving the pdf away for free from gencon. Your pdf has leaked all over the internet. At least have an option for people to buy it from you. People want the book and when they hear (cause they are gonna hear) about the situarion they are either going to give up on buying it, or get it for free. You are missing the best possible window for selling this product.
I will point out that
pathfinder 2 was there as its big release. The srd is up for it. The pdf is up for sale.
The cyberpunk jumpstart kit, was there. The pdf is up for sale. If you bought the box they gave you (in addition) a coupon for an 8$ pdf of the stuff (discounted down from the 15 it is normally), a syrinscape code for a soundtrack, and an extra d10. (And a con badge tag but who cares about those)
If the number I heard thrown around is correct cgl brough 800~850 copies (core reg book) to a 60,000 person convention. They sold out before I got there on saturday.
I was excited about the prospect of having some day 1 errata. Praise dunklezhan to whomever got that done. (I was not given access through errata team to anything beforehand) i was excited to give them some credit.
But this?
Im not angry, just disappointed.
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It's rather distressing that after repeated deliberate NDA violations and partial leaks taking place over the past months, now someone decided to fully leak the book. No matter how much one hates SR6, they should have realised leaking the PDF (without even the SHRED of decency to wait until official release) is absolutely not cool and will only cause CGL to lock things down further in the future, pretty much guaranteeing that no open beta will ever take place. It's also a real shame that there's people on reddit that seem to love posting "yeah it can be 'found' *winkwinknudgenudge*". Anyone who cares about Shadowrun at all should know better.
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Ok, here is the most official thing I can tell you (based on what has been confirmed by Jason Hardy directly to me)
Thanks for this, Banshee.
PDF's will be updated and if you purchased one you will get those updates for free as they are released ... I just don't know the anticipated release schedule.
OK! So this is Actual Real Good News in my book. Apart from anything else, from the prevalence of "I can't talk about that, it's under NDA" responses on here, it looks like the current errata process for 6e CRB is pretty extensive. Having to go back and forth between a book and an erata is a pain in the arse that gets significantly more painful as the errata grows. Fingers crossed the book releases in a better state for this delay.
Physical copies of the gencon release ... don't know about getting it replaced but I doubt it
On the other hand, ouch. I wonder how many of those people wouldn't have dropped $50-200 if they'd know this was going to happen.
I also don't think the near-total radio silence from Catalyst is helpful here. I don't see a lot of downsides to just being a little bit more open with folks about what's going on.
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It's rather distressing that after repeated deliberate NDA violations and partial leaks taking place over the past months, now someone decided to fully leak the book. No matter how much one hates SR6, they should have realised leaking the PDF (without even the SHRED of decency to wait until official release) is absolutely not cool and will only cause CGL to lock things down further in the future, pretty much guaranteeing that no open beta will ever take place. It's also a real shame that there's people on reddit that seem to love posting "yeah it can be 'found' *winkwinknudgenudge*". Anyone who cares about Shadowrun at all should know better.
If you saw the code, you'd know just how badly CGL screwed up by using it. They had literally one code, it was used for everyone, and it wasn't tied to a purchase. People are awful and the assumption should always be that they'll steal when they can. If they'd just used a key generator and watermarked the copies normally through DTRPG, this isn't (as bad of) an issue.
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This is why we can't have nice things. :-[
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This is why we can't have nice things. :-[
Horse hockey.
Other production companies do just fine while dealing with these same issues.
And their customers get nice things.
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Nice thing: Errata volunteers receiving access months in advance for supplying fixes, and demo team receiving access month in advance for preparation.
Non-nice-thing: Demo team not being able to prepare in advance.
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This is why we can't have nice things. :-[
They did the same thing three(?) years ago with street grimoire.
The code is irrelevant anyway as the store isnt selling the book to use it.
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Arrrgh, just sell me the PDF.
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It leaked? Now that is just rich.
That's a thing CGL should be grateful for actually.
Here's why.
6E is sitting at a crisis-level PR event, as I see it. Cata is poised to hose even more customers than the ~800 who bought this mess of a book already. I would venture to guess that over 775 of those who bought the book are not on this forum, and can't assist in find errata or pointing out where players are going to trip up or feel confused or struggle with understanding a change. However, the more people that can see it before it hits the shelves, the more that can tell you the issues, and give you a chance to fix more issues. You have a wider feedback pool, and can operate with less blinders on. You may think players are going to intuit certain things, but maybe they won't. You have minimal feedback outside this forum to go on. Also, the less people that buy the busted paper version is better for CGL in the long term, as there will be less refunds to go through later. The book is unusable in its current condition, and a black eye to the company. CGL could prevent more harm by pulling back NOW and doing a broader fix.
As Bamce pointed out, there's no public PDF available yet. That also hurts visibility to the reaction and feedback. If the PDF had been on sale already, you'd be getting that feedback from an even wider spread of folks, and could diagnose and repair even more effectively. Upset customers could be reassured that the PDF would be updated, and that errata teams were already on it, and so on. Their investment could at least be made good on. GenCon goers have codes to get PDF books with. While they are now the proud owners of a $50 to $200 paperweight, at least they can eventually run the game from the updated PDF. Harm yes, but not unrecoverable. One self-inflicted black eye only.
It worries me that CGL and some of the folks here who represent them don't seem to understand that this is an actual crisis for CGL. I know you most likely couldn't say so if you did agree, but it seems like the notion expressed by some is that this is fine or at least acceptable. No. This is not normal, it is not okay, and not good for the business in the long run. Thanks to a leak, you now may have a wider window into the general public reaction to this. That's a benefit in this unique case that should be leveraged, not grumped about. These are the canaries in your coal mine. They are singing loud and clear. How many people on this forum alone have expressed that they are walking away from 6E? It may not just be some die hards who don't want to play with this Edge thing. Preference is only one factor in this. What's done is done, and hopefully this leak can help you understand the scope of the issue here, and urge the right kind of action on it.
Cata needs to acknowledge the degree of error in judgement here and respond accordingly. Not just slink a corrected PDF out the door later, or drop new errata docs and keep hiding from the customers. It's not too late, but the clock is ticking. Hopefully someone here can get them to see this, and do something better here. You cannot let 6E be sold in this condition, you just simply cannot. Hopefully this is being said to someone inside CGL management. If not, someone go say it. Right now. Pick up a phone, walk in an office, close a laptop on someone's fingers, whatever. Get their attention somehow. For your own sake, if no one else's.
Mistakes happen. It's what we do about them that matters.
Go matter.
-Typhus the Canary, Coal Mine #6W.
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I know you most likely couldn't say so if you did agree,
You already were explained what the NDA entails: It's about facts, not opinions. I don't appreciate you once again making false censorship claims. It's already bad enough you keep claiming the book is fully unusable, simply because it's not perfect. Yes, there's some bad stuff. Some things even experienced players aren't sure of. Some newbies would need a hand with. We'll gladly help them. But that doesn't make the entire thing unusable.
You want canaries? I ran a Beginner Box event. My brother another. People loved it. It takes 2 turns to get used to the Edge system, and from that point forth things were extremely fluent.
And neither positive nor negative reactions make people leaking the product a GOOD thing. That's utter craziness. Do you honestly believe that the people that illegally download the book will provide feedback worth the lost revenue? When there's ~900 people who already own the book, an Errata Team and dozens and dozens of Demo Team Agents that already combed through the book? Of course not. So don't claim a leaked book is a good thing, just because SR6 has things you don't like so you'd rather have all of Shadowrun destroyed.
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And neither positive nor negative reactions make people leaking the product a GOOD thing. That's utter craziness. Do you honestly believe that the people that illegally download the book will provide feedback worth the lost revenue? When there's ~900 people who already own the book, an Errata Team and dozens and dozens of Demo Team Agents that already combed through the book? Of course not. So don't claim a leaked book is a good thing, just because SR6 has things you don't like so you'd rather have all of Shadowrun destroyed.
Take your self pity party elsewhere.
There are other production companies that give away their mechanics for free and still make bank on their print and PDF products.
So what makes Catalyst different?
Perhaps it has nothing to do with with a product leaking, dontcha think?
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If you saw the code, you'd know just how badly CGL screwed up by using it. They had literally one code, it was used for everyone, and it wasn't tied to a purchase. People are awful and the assumption should always be that they'll steal when they can. If they'd just used a key generator and watermarked the copies normally through DTRPG, this isn't (as bad of) an issue.
My understanding is the leaked pdf appeared before the codes ever worked. Whoever did it was someone trusted by CGL, and probably under NDA.
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Woah folks let’s calm down a bit. It IS just a game. I want the book but I don’t want folks tearing at each other. Yeah there are some poor decisions with the way the release is going but this isn’t life and death stuff.
We can express our frustration without being harsh about it.
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I do agree that CGL keeps things too close to their chest sometimes. So some info on 'hey, delays due to X' more publicly would be nice. But I can't fault their 'we won't state a release date until we have the books in hand and know we can make it' policy, because they've been burned before.
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Woah folks let’s calm down a bit. It IS just a game. I want the book but I don’t want folks tearing at each other. Yeah there are some poor decisions with the way the release is going but this isn’t life and death stuff.
We can express our frustration without being harsh about it.
Thanks GD, a lot of people seem to forget that.
And, with that...
This thread is locked until head cool off.