[Michael Chandra]

That you always use Agility for Drone gunnery (except if you use Sensor attacks) have also been clarified by SRM (pending official errata).

Given how the rule that tends to be quoted as general, doesn't mention exceptions at all, there's in fact a contradiction until there's an official errata. Most importantly, the reason the book provides as to why Agility is used, namely making AR gestures, contradicts the idea of using Agility in VR. Any official errata not addressing that passage, is nothing but a 'let's just go with X so the debate is settled', not decent errata. Just like how Aaron's 'wireless functionality remains no matter the noise' contradicts the fluff of 'Headjammers to block internal commlinks of calling out', and as such was a poor ruling barring errata striking that passage from the book.

[adzling]

the errata team has errata on jammers ready to go ;-)

[Marcus]

While it's great that errata team is fixing Jammer. I still think we aren't any closer to a useful solution on Riggers. I continue to believe VR and anything that makes riggers using matrix attributes all bad news. Riggers riding motorcycles should not limp VR veggies. I say the break Archetype into two. Drone Master and Rigger, and attack it from that approach.

Drones Masters can do VR, swarm drones and all that stuff

Riggers are BA Pilots.

[Marcus]

RCC's become a Deck add on.

VCR become a Wire Reflexes Add on.

Break Gunnery into
Vehicle Mount Weapons- becomes a Reaction Skill- Use Governs use of weapons mounter on vehicle, Spec by mount type.

Drone Weaponry- becomes a logic Skill- Use Governs use of Weapon in Drones, Spec by Drone Model

Riggers are Reaction primary.

Drone Master become Logic Primary.

Go from there. The logic is clear.

[Salmon-show]

What kind of defense actions can you take while rigging?

Since you are the vehicle does it work as if it's your body i.e. do you use the full defense action or do you use the evasive driving (defense) action?

Can you also dodge, parry and block?

[Xenon]

What kind of defense actions can you take while rigging?

You can take all defensive actions you can take while driving manually, remote controlling via AR or remote controlling via VR.

Or are you asking for defensive actions that you may only take while specifically rigging?

* When the condition monitor of the vehicle you are jumped into is completely filled you may spend a point of Edge to operate the vehicle for another combat turn (normally it cannot be driven any further) by taking the Hold it Together Baby-action (R5.0 p. 176)

* While jumped in you may spend a point of Edge in a combat turn to keep the vehicle under control (instead of making a Piloting Test) by taking the Zen Control-action (R5.0 p. 177)

* While jumped into a drone you may act as the assistant to the attacks of all your drones for the remaining of the combat turn as long as your drone is within 10 meters of the target by taking the Swarm-action (R5.0 179). The best defense is a good offense?

do you use the full defense action or do you use the evasive driving (defense) action?

Unless explicitly specified you use the same actions, skills, attributes and limits no matter if you are driving manually, remote controlling via AR, remote controlling via VR or jumped in.

With a vehicle (or drone) under your control you defend against attacks with Reaction + Intuition [Handling], but (except against ramming attacks) you may spend a Free Action and 10 Initiative Score to add your Intuition Rating to the defense pool to dodge attacks by taking the Evasive Driving-action (SR5 p. 205).

Can you also dodge, parry and block?

No.

[Michael Chandra]

What kind of defense actions can you take while rigging?

Since you are the vehicle does it work as if it's your body i.e. do you use the full defense action or do you use the evasive driving (defense) action?

Can you also dodge, parry and block?

Those are in part melee actions, so I'm going to assume this requires jumping into a drone wielding melee weapons. Most of those would be humanoid.

[Salmon-show]

Or are you asking for defensive actions that you may only take while specifically rigging?

Yeah I should have typed while being jumped in, I'm specifically wondering about if your only option is evasive driving if you want to boost your defense for an attack or if you can take other defensive actions as well. Judging by what you wrote I'm assuming no, evasive driving is the only option.

Those are in part melee actions, so I'm going to assume this requires jumping into a drone wielding melee weapons. Most of those would be humanoid.

Yes take the Ares Duelist for example, it doesnt feel like too much of a stretch for it to be able to parry attacks since it uses swords. Then again if a drone counts as a vehicle full stop while you're jumped in it's not gonna work.
 

[Marcus]

Answering that question takes more information.
In general you will get the defensive action available to type of vehicle your piloting, something defend differently then others.
If your asking can a rigger defend themselves if someone their find the rigger veggie body, the answer is of course no.
Just like if mages astrally projecting, or Decker is in Full VR. The upside for rigger they can often be in rigger cocoons, so that's some advantage. But yes leaving a body behind is vulnerability. But it is typically something most folks who do this sort of thing regularly have good planning in place to take care of the problem.

[Michael Chandra]

Or are you asking for defensive actions that you may only take while specifically rigging?

Yeah I should have typed while being jumped in, I'm specifically wondering about if your only option is evasive driving if you want to boost your defense for an attack or if you can take other defensive actions as well. Judging by what you wrote I'm assuming no, evasive driving is the only option.

Those are in part melee actions, so I'm going to assume this requires jumping into a drone wielding melee weapons. Most of those would be humanoid.

Yes take the Ares Duelist for example, it doesnt feel like too much of a stretch for it to be able to parry attacks since it uses swords. Then again if a drone counts as a vehicle full stop while you're jumped in it's not gonna work.

If they counted as vehicles, full stop, you'd have to spend 1 action a turn on keeping the vehicle under control. =P But they proposed different movement rules during combat, proving that drones in combat are way different than a normal vehicle.

[Salmon-show]

I'm only curious about what kind of defensive actions you can use with the drone you're jumped into, using a defensive action with your limp meatspace body does sound silly. 

If they counted as vehicles, full stop, you'd have to spend 1 action a turn on keeping the vehicle under control. =P But they proposed different movement rules during combat, proving that drones in combat are way different than a normal vehicle.

That is true and I didnt think of that, let's take an example and maybe you and Marcus could explain how you would rule it.

Example: A rigger is jumped into a Steel Lynx and has to defend against a ranged attack, REA + INT is standard but he wants more defense so what defensive actions are avaialble? Full Defense (+WIL) or Evasive Driving (+INT)?

What if the drone is an Ares Duelist? It uses legs instead of wheels for locomotion and swords instead of some kind of gun, does that change/add options or is it still the same as for the Steel Lynx? If the attack is instead a melee attack would it be possible to Dodge instead of Full Defense/Evasive Driving? What about the Ares Duelist, is it possible to choose between Dodge and Parry?

Say that you would use Full Defense as the most appropriate action, would you add WIL or would you substitue that attribute for REA, LOG or INT since those seem like what riggers tend to use while jumped in?

[Xenon]

What if the drone is an Ares Duelist? It uses legs instead of wheels for locomotion and swords instead of some kind of gun, does that change/add options or is it still the same as for the Steel Lynx? If the attack is instead a melee attack would it be possible to Dodge instead of Full Defense/Evasive Driving? What about the Ares Duelist, is it possible to choose between Dodge and Parry?

You are discussion very specific corner cases now ;-)

IF it would be possible to Dodge or Parry (which I don't think you have rule support for but I can see the arguments to allow it while controlling a humanoid drone that is wielding a melee weapon while defending against a melee attack) THEN it will also be an option if you just remote control it (from AR or from VR, doesn't matter). It will not be exclusive to just while jumped in.

However, rule wise your only interrupt action available while controlling a vehicle or drone is to use Evasive Driving (which add Intuition to your defense pool for the rest of the combat turn) -- rule wise I simply can't find that they mention any exception if the the vehicle or drone you are controlling is a Walker... or if it have Arms... or if it is wielding a melee weapon... or if it is defending against a melee attack.

If your real body is being attacked in melee combat is not the same thing as if a vehicle or drone your are currently controlling is being attacked in melee combat.

It seem as if your real body is being attacked you might have the extra option to use Full Defense, Dodge, Parry, Block, Hit the Dirt, Spell Defense or Missile Parry (plus whatever interrupt actions they added in supplement books) while if a vehicle or drone you are currently controlling is being attacked the only extra option you might have is to use Evasive Driving.

[Michael Chandra]

I'm only curious about what kind of defensive actions you can use with the drone you're jumped into, using a defensive action with your limp meatspace body does sound silly. 

If they counted as vehicles, full stop, you'd have to spend 1 action a turn on keeping the vehicle under control. =P But they proposed different movement rules during combat, proving that drones in combat are way different than a normal vehicle.

That is true and I didnt think of that, let's take an example and maybe you and Marcus could explain how you would rule it.

Example: A rigger is jumped into a Steel Lynx and has to defend against a ranged attack, REA + INT is standard but he wants more defense so what defensive actions are avaialble? Full Defense (+WIL) or Evasive Driving (+INT)?

What if the drone is an Ares Duelist? It uses legs instead of wheels for locomotion and swords instead of some kind of gun, does that change/add options or is it still the same as for the Steel Lynx? If the attack is instead a melee attack would it be possible to Dodge instead of Full Defense/Evasive Driving? What about the Ares Duelist, is it possible to choose between Dodge and Parry?

Say that you would use Full Defense as the most appropriate action, would you add WIL or would you substitue that attribute for REA, LOG or INT since those seem like what riggers tend to use while jumped in?

I haven't rulelawyered RAW or RAI for a while now, so I can't tell what would be the best explanation under those. But at my table, if you asked me, I'd say 'Evasive Driving is for vehicles, if you're using that drone in combat (and not in a vehicle chase), we will use Full Defense. In Vehicle Chases, even with Drones, it'd be Evasive Driving'.