Shadowrun

Shadowrun General => General Discussion => Topic started by: StavOnTheRun on <06-08-19/2151:37>

Title: Sioux Defense Forces: An In-Depth Study
Post by: StavOnTheRun on <06-08-19/2151:37>
Hello.

I'm new to the forums, but not new to the setting or the system. I was creating a runner from the Sioux Nation, and since I am a story-heavy character creator, started to look more into the Sioux Defense Forces since they are a pretty large part of Sioux national culture and would have been a big part of my runner's previous life. I came to find that relatively little information existed about them, so I started up a little blurb in my character's backstory. That blurb became this project: To create a mildly-detailed set of information about the Sioux Defense Forces that could be used to help flesh out Sioux Nation characters.

This is still a work in progress and I am open to suggestions or alterations. Most of the information is from source material when it exists, such as the tribes that make up the Sioux Nation, or it is from educated inference, such as the number of active personnel (Based on a 1-in-14 ratio, which what Israel currently has approximately). If you have questions or suggestions, please offer them.

Thus, I give you the following.

Sioux Defense Forces
Overview

The Sioux Defence Forces constitute the combined arms wing of the Sioux Nation. With no oceans, the SDF is primarily ground-based, with 80% of their overall manpower and funding going to the Army. Thanks to this funding, and mandatory military conscription, the SDF is relatively large, well trained, and well equipped for a nation with as small a population as the Sioux.

Each of the recognized tribes of the Sioux Nation makes a manpower contribution, and the various brigades are mostly ethnically homogeneous in an attempt to increase cohesion and esprit de corps. Some of the tribes are small and cannot field a full detachment on their own, and instead contribute men and women to the units of a larger related tribe or combine their men and women with other small tribes that are ethnically similar. For example, none of the woodlands tribes are large enough to field their own brigade, so the six tribes all form one unit together.
   
The land of the Sioux Nation is large, rugged, and has many wide-open spaces. Such terrain has historically proven to benefit artillery, motorized infantry, and armored fighting vehicles. With this in mind, the SDF has a high percentage of artillery, all of their Rifle Brigades are motorized, and armored vehicles feature heavily.
   
The Sioux Nation is subdivided into 6 Operational Zones: North, North-East, South-East, South, West, and Central. Each Operational Zone has 4 active brigades permanently assigned to it for defense: 3 Rifle Brigades and 1 Armored Brigade. The exception to this is the Central Operational Zone, which has no Armored Brigade.

The Wildcat Brigade has 9 Squadrons, with one assigned to each Operational Zone, one assigned to executive protection duties, and two assigned to the Office of Military Intelligence directly.
   
When the SDF Reserves are activated, the Army more than triples in size. It gains an additional 40 Reserve Rifle Brigades, 10 Reserve Armored Brigades, and 2 Reserve Wildcat Brigades.

Sioux Defense Forces Statistics
Army: 80,000 Active in 18 Rifle Brigades, 5 Armored Brigades, and 1 Special Forces Wildcat Brigade.
Air Force: 20,000 Active in 7 Fighter Regiments, 7 Transport Helicopter Regiments, 4 Attack Helicopter Regiments, and 2 Bomber Regiments.

Sioux Defense Forces Tribal Contributions
Cherokee and Lumbee
   -x3 Rifle Brigades (1st, 2nd, and 3rd Tsalagi Rifle Brigades.).
   -x2 Armored Brigades (1st and 2nd Tsalagi Armored Brigades.).
Sioux
   -x3 Rifle Brigades (1st, 2nd, and 3rd Sioux Rifle Brigades.).
   -x1 Armored Brigade (Sioux Armored Brigade.).
Cheyenne and Arapaho
   -x2 Rifle Brigades (1st and 2nd Cheyenne Rifle Brigades.).
   -x1 Armored Brigade (Cheyenne Armored Brigade.).
Creek and Seminole
   -x2 Rifle Brigades (1st and 2nd Muscogee Rifle Brigades.).
   -x1 Armored Brigade (Muscogee Armored Brigade.).
Navajo and Apache
   -x2 Rifle Brigades (1st and 2nd Dene Rifle Brigades.).
Crow and Hidatsa
   -x2 Rifle Brigades (1st and 2nd Crow Rifle Brigades.).
Woodlands (Mohawk, Mohegan, Mahican, Onondaga, Delaware, and Oneida)
   -x1 Rifle Brigade (Woodlands Rifle Brigade.).
Shoshone
   -x1 Rifle Brigade (White Knives Rifle Brigade.).
Ojibwe, Cree, and Potawatomi
   -x1 Rifle Brigade (Stone Child Rifle Brigade.).
Chickasaw and Choctaw
   -x1 Rifle Brigade (Muskogean Rifle Brigade.).

Sioux Defense Forces Brigade Structure
   Rifle Brigade (~3,500 Men.).
      Brigade Headquarters (850 Men.).
      Tank Battalion (150 Men.).
      3 Rifle Battalions (500 Men Each.).
      Artillery Battalion (250 Men.).
      Multiple Launch Rocket System Battalion (250 Men.).
      Air Defense Battalion (250 Men.).
      Engineer Battalion (250 Men.).

   Armored Brigade (~2,800 Men.).
      Brigade Headquarters (850 Men.).
      3 Tank Battalions (150 Men Each.).
      Rifle Battalion (500 Men.).
      Artillery Battalion (250 Men.).
      Multiple Launch Rocket System Battalion (250 Men.).
      Air Defense Battalion (250 Men.).
      Engineer Battalion (250 Men.).

   Special Forces Wildcat Brigade (~3,000 Men.).
      Brigade Headquarters (300 Men.).
      9 Wildcat Squadrons (300 Men Each.).


Sioux Defense Forces Training
   
The training cycle for the Sioux Defence Forces really begins two years before conscription. The Sioux Scouts is a youth paramilitary organization that almost everyone, including Anglo residents, is a part of. Starting at the age of six, Sioux Scouts are trained in basic survival skills, wilderness navigation, first aid, and other such useful skills. At the age of sixteen, the Sioux Scouts are then trained in firearms handling, marksmanship, military command structure, and simple battle tactics. When a Sioux is conscripted and begins their service commitment, they are already a well-rounded recruit with a lot of training underneath their belt.
   
The first week is in-processing, followed by three weeks of primarily remedial instruction on what was covered in the Sioux Scouts to ensure everyone is on the same page. What follows is seven months of intense physical, emotional, and mental preparation. The first two months are spent rotating through the various specialties of the SDF with training and testing in each area. At the end of this period, a conscript is offered one of three specialties that they scored well in. The last five months are spent in more specialized training, culminating in a one-week period where a conscript must survive on their own in the Sioux wilderness with only their rucksack.
   
Once the eight-month training cycle is completed, the conscript is approved and spends the last four months of their service commitment in active duty with one of the SDF brigades. Once his year is completed, a conscript may elect to extend their active enlistment or proceed to the reserves, where they will remain for four years.

Sioux Defense Forces Equipment

SDF equipment is neither high tech nor expensive, but extremely reliable and durable. The philosophy of the SDF high command is to equip it’s men with the basics and rely on the ferociousness and tenacity of the warriors to overcome any deficiency in arms. How effective this strategy is remains an ongoing debate, but no one can question the training and fighting spirit of the SDF. The standard arms and armor of the SDF are inexpensive, reliable, and bomb-proof.
   
In addition to whatever arms and special gear they carry, all SDF troopers are expected to be relatively self-sufficient when it comes to equipment. Each one carries a good quality backpack with a survival kit, at least two liters of water, a rating 6 respirator, a combat knife, an Urban Tribe Tomahawk, a folding entrenching tool, a Rating 1 Advanced Medkit, a weaponry cleaning kit, rain poncho, and whatever personal items they would want to carry with them.

Front-line combat troops rely on the tested, reliable, and affordable AK-97 series, even going so far as to use modified versions as squad automatic weapons. Combat support troops use instead the Cavalier Gladius as a lightweight sub-machine gun. The Colt L36 is the standard sidearm carried by officers, whereas armored vehicles crews, non-combat staff officers and NCOs, and even military police are issued the Ceska Black Skorpion as a PDW.

Standard Weaponry and Armor
-Pistol: Colt America L36.
-SMG: Cavalier Gladius.
-PDW: Ceska Black Skorpion.
-Rifle: AK-97 or AK-98.
-Automatic Rifle: AK-97 with Long Barrel, Shock Pad, Bipod, and Extended Magazine.
-Marksman Rifle: Ruger 101 with Suppressor and Bipod.
-LMG: Shiawase Nemesis with Shock Pad, Bipod and 100-round belts.
-Armor: Armor Jacket w/ Securitech PP Arms and Legs, SWAT Helmet.

Sioux Defense Forces Organization
   This section will look at the basic organization of the SDF brigade, starting with the most simple battlefield unit, the Rifle Squad.

Rifle Squad - 8 Men.
   Sergeant - Squad Leader, armed with AK-97.
   Corporal - Assistant Squad Leader, armed with AK-97.
   Automatic Rifleman - Fire Support, armed with AK-97 w/ Long Barrel, Bipod, Shock Pad, and Extended Magazines.
   Grenadier - Fire Support, armed with AK-98.
   Medic- Medical Support, armed with Cavalier Gladius.
   Rifleman x3 - Assault Trooper, armed with AK-97.
      
The Rifle Squad is 8 men and can be functionally divided into two teams: The Support Team made of the Sergeant, Grenadier, Automatic Rifleman, and one Rifleman, and the Assault Team made up of the Corporal, Medic, and 2 Riflemen. Motorized with a modified ten-seat Toyota Gopher, the Squad can carry enough food, water, and ammo in their vehicle for 48 hours of independent operation. A vehicle-mounted, satellite-linked comm system is used for command communication, and the Sergeant and Corporal both carry encrypted micro-transceivers for tactical communication.

Rifle Platoon - 28 Men.
   -Platoon Headquarters - 4 Men.
      Platoon Leader - Lieutenant, armed with AK-97.
      Assistant Platoon Leader - Senior Sergeant, armed with AK-97.
      Radio Operator - Communications Specialist, armed with Cavalier Gladius.
      Marksman - Fire Support, armed with Ruger 101 w/ Bipod and Suppressor.
   -x3 Rifle Squads - 24 Men Total.

The Rifle Platoon is composed of 28 men. The Platoon Headquarters has no vehicles of it’s own, and instead divides themselves between the Toyota Gophers assigned to each Squad. The Radio Operator carries a manpack satellite-linked comm system used for exchanges with upper levels of command and like the Squads that make it up, a Rifle Platoon can operate 48 hours without resupply.

Rifle Company - 110 Men.
   -Company Headquarters - 8 Men.
      Commanding Officer - Captain, armed with AK-97.
      Executive Officer - 1st Lieutenant or Captain, armed with AK-97.
      First Sergeant - Senior Sergeant, armed with AK-97.
      Technical Sergeant - Senior Technician, armed with Cavalier Gladius.
      Supply Sergeant - Supply Specialist, armed with Cavalier Gladius.
      Matrix Support - Decker, armed with Cavalier Gladius.
      Magical Support - Mage, armed with Cavalier Gladius.
   -x3 Rifle Platoons - 84 Men Total.
   -Weapons Platoon - 18 Men.


The Rifle Company is composed of 110 men and is capable of 96 hours of independent operation. The Weapons Platoon provides fire support and is composed of a four-man Headquarters, an ATGM Squad of seven men with three ATGM Launchers, and a Machine Gun Squad of seven men with three Medium Machine Guns. It has two Toyota Gophers for transport. A twelfth Toyota Gopher is provided for the Company Headquarters.

Rifle Battalion - 500 Men.
   -Battalion Headquarters - 70 Men.
      Battalion Staff - 12 Men.
      Support Company - 50 Men.
      Medical Platoon - 8 Men.
   -x3 Rifle Companies - 330 Men Total.
   -Mortar Battery - 60 Men.
   -Anti-Tank Platoon - 20 Men.
   -Air Defense Platoon - 20 Men.


The Rifle Battalion is composed of 500 men total and is capable of ten days of independent operation. It combines infantry, artillery, anti-tank, air defense, medical, and support personnel into a maneuverable, versatile, and capable unit.  The Battalion Headquarters has six Toyota Gophers and ten heavy-duty cargo trucks for transport. The Mortar Battery provides high-angle fire support from six 120mm tubes and has eight Toyota Gophers for transport. The Anti-Tank Platoon supplies four four-man Heavy ATGM Teams with one launcher each and has four Toyota Gophers for transport. The Air Defense Platoon supplies four four-man MANPADS Teams with two launchers each and has four Toyota Gophers for transport. In total, a Rifle Battalion has 58 Toyota Gophers and 10 cargo trucks.

Rifle Brigade - 3,500 Men.
   -Brigade Headquarters (~850 Men.).
      -Brigade Staff (60 Men.).
      -Support Battalion (500 Men.).
      -Medical Company (60 Men.).
      -Reconnaissance Company (60 Men.).
      -Electronic Warfare Company (60 Men.).
      -Magical Warfare Company (60 Men.).
      -NBC Company (50 Men.).
   -Tank Battalion (150 Men, 40 Tanks.).
      -Battalion Headquarters (30 Men, 1 Tank.).
      -x3 Tank Companies (40 Men, 13 Tanks Each.).
   -x3 Rifle Battalions (~1,500 Men Total.).
   -Artillery Battalion (~250 Men, 18 Howitzers.).
      -Battalion Headquarters (40 Men.).
      -x3 Howitzer Batteries (70 Men, x6 Howitzers Each.).
   -Multiple Launch Rocket System Battalion (~250 Men, 18 MLRS.).
      -Battalion Headquarters (40 Men.).
      -x3 MLRS Batteries (70 Men, x6 MLRS Each.).
   -Air Defense Battalion (~250 Men, 18 SAMs.).
      -Battery Headquarters (30 Men.).
      -x3 Air Defense Batteries (70 Men, x6 SAMs.).
   -Engineer Battalion (~250 Men.).
      -Battalion Headquarters (30 Men.).
      -x3 Combat Engineer Companies (70 Men Each.).   

The Rifle Brigade is the most common formation in the SDF and is combined-arms in its approach to warfare. With a full complement of Matrix, Magical, Armored, Rifle, Artillery, Support, Recon, NBC, and Engineering personnel, it is totally self-sufficient and capable of combating the enemy in any battlefield type. The only difference between brigade types is that a Rifle Brigade has three Rifle Battalions and one Tank Battalion, while an Armored Brigade has three Tank Battalions and one Rifle Battalion.
Title: Re: Sioux Defense Forces: An In-Depth Study
Post by: Wakshaani on <06-09-19/0144:32>
*puts a pin in this for later*
Title: Re: Sioux Defense Forces: An In-Depth Study
Post by: Rift_0f_Bladz on <06-09-19/0202:02>
Overall pretty good, but honestly, they should all be rocking Full Body Armor and Helmet (core rule book) with the Chem Seal and environmental adaption as their armor, at least, this get their armor to 18 before Cyber, Bio, or magic. We are talking about a society (Sioux) where wearing a real Leather Armored Jacket to a fancy dinner is normal and not viewed as weird. Even fitting within the older more reliable stuff, they should be using FBA. Leave the fancy Mil-Spec armors to those who can't move quickly or silently and requires far more maintenance. Also, figured they should have the tomohawk from Run and Gun, which can easily be used in melee or thrown over the folding one, which can only be used in melee. Otherwise this looks pretty good. Some of the vehicles could be not picked, but nothing major. Cheers. Fun side note, Last character I played in SR, Bladz, was Sioux.
Title: Re: Sioux Defense Forces: An In-Depth Study
Post by: Stainless Steel Devil Rat on <06-09-19/1224:46>
One of the more recent sources that covers Denver (anything post Ghostwalker is 'recent' to me, so it could still be a book 10-15 years old by this point) mentions that the former USAF Academy is now the all-services military academy for the entire NAN.

Of course, according to the Denver Box set (2055 era) the USAFA was levelled rather than handing it over to "the Injuns" and its ruins are the secret home to the Denver Data Haven that was the most important node on the matrix to pre-Crash 2.0 shadowrunners.

So pick your own truth, I guess.  Maybe the DDH was never rebuilt post Crash 2.0 but the NANners did rebuild the ruins into a functional academy.
Title: Re: Sioux Defense Forces: An In-Depth Study
Post by: StavOnTheRun on <06-09-19/1331:52>
Thanks for the input so far.

I'll change the folding hatchet to the Urban Tomahawk, it's probably a better idea in retrospect. Credit to Rift_of_Bladz. As for the armor, you don't think FBA sort of breaks the character of the NAN? FBA seems more to be in line with more advanced, tech-based nations, IMHO. I thought about using Light Security Armor, but the cost is way too high for what it offers (Unless it has been corrected in errata I haven't seen.).

On the subject of the USAFA, the conflicting source material does present an issue. For whatever reason (and I have no source material to corroborate this), I thought it might make more sense for the training of the various Sioux Nation tribal groups to be run by each individual contributing tribe. That presents it's own set of problems though, since it could lead to varying levels of competency in the curriculum.

Title: Re: Sioux Defense Forces: An In-Depth Study
Post by: Rift_0f_Bladz on <06-10-19/0140:01>
Thanks for the credit!

As to the armor. No, FBA is the minimum Heavy Armor for Militaries. True Mil-Spec, aka Hardened Armor, is what most modern military groups would be using, especially for their heavy troops, along with stronger weapons. Hell, the new Bug Stomper Armor (Ares) is not only Hardened, but also no restrictive for movement. What you have for armor basic Gangers have access too. Military weapons and ADPS will shred that. They have to have something tougher. FBA will give that, but not be state of the art, unlike the Mil-Spec Hardened Armors. But that is my opinion, which is worth less than .02 ¥.
Title: Re: Sioux Defense Forces: An In-Depth Study
Post by: Tecumseh on <06-10-19/1457:17>
I know you have Shadows in Focus: Sioux Nation because a lot of your information lines up with it. The "Facts at a Glance" section at the front has some numbers in them that might be useful for a sanity check for some of your estimates. I don't know if the values actually hold water from a macroeconomic perspective, but here's what we have:

Population: 6,950,000
Per Capita GDP: ¥31,000
National GDP: ¥215.5 Billion
Military Expenditures: ¥17 Billion (7.9% of GDP)

I have no idea how much brigades cost and if the above is sufficient to support what you've outlined. Per canon, these numbers are from 2073-2075, which is now 5 years out-of-date, so these values could potentially be 10%+ higher now.

As for Sioux strategy and training, I actually find this piece of shadowtalk to be the most insightful:

Quote from: p. 21
Let’s not ignore the elephant in the room that gives the war chiefs nightmares. President Colloton threatened to steamroll right through the Sioux to get at Ghostwalker during the big showdown a few months ago, and there’s not a damn thing the Sioux Defense Force could have done to stop it. The Sioux strategy is for defense-in-depth and long-term guerrilla action. They’re not prepared to deal with an enemy that doesn’t plan on occupying their territory, and the Pentagon knows it.

This is backed up by the Lifestyle Modules for the "SDF One Year Wonder":

Quote from: p. 37
Serving for one year in the SDF will not make you an elite killer, but it provides training in a range of skills that could prove very handy in fighting a war from the shadows.

The skills included are Automatics (Assault Rifle), Demolitions (Improvised), Disguise (Camouflage), Sneaking, and Unarmed Combat. Again, all of that strongly suggests a citizenry trained for guerrilla warfare and long-term insurgency, rather than a stand-and-bang military trying to go toe-to-toe with larger opponents. I think this supports your "SDF equipment is neither high tech nor expensive, but extremely reliable and durable" approach, at least for the conscripts and the reserves. Those that sign on for extended service then get access to the heavier equipment, which is reflected in their Heavy Weapons, Gunnery, and Electronic Warfare (Communications) skills from their Lifestyle module.

I'm glad to see the Sioux Scouts in your write-up but the supplement is a bit contradictory about what it entails. Rigger X says it provides "the equivalent of UCAS Army basic training" while the Lifestyle module makes it sound more outdoorsy and less militaristic. Thus it's debatable whether they go so far as to get into military command structure and simple battle tactics in the Scouts training. From the Lifestyle module, the skills from Scouts are Archery (Bow), First Aid, Longarms, Navigation, Survival, and Swimming.
Title: Re: Sioux Defense Forces: An In-Depth Study
Post by: StavOnTheRun on <06-10-19/2115:51>
On the topic of population, military expenditures, and the like, I went with a rough modern comparison being Israel, which is referenced several times in the sources. The last census there (2008) listed roughly 7 million inhabitants, so pretty close to the Sioux Nation, and a national defense budget of 5.1% GDP. Their own active component is ~170,000, with another ~465,000 in reserve, which boils down to a ratio of 1 soldier to every 11 citizens. Quite high. However, in the Sioux Nation, I believe only Tribal members can serve in the military, so only 65% of their population is ellegible. Hence why I put their numbers lower, despite a higher budget overall.

On the cost of each brigade? Hell, that's a lot of number's crunching, but I just might do it.

Being more organized towards long-term, insurgency operations against an invader is why I went with the idea of motorized infantry capable of relatively long periods of independent operation. Is this an incorrect idea?

On the topic of the Sioux Scouts, I ran with the idea that it was the rough equivalent of UCAS Army basic training, which (As far as I know, being a stinkin' civy) would include arms training and basic battle tactics. I'm perfectly willing to change this assessment if it is incorrect.
Title: Re: Sioux Defense Forces: An In-Depth Study
Post by: GloriousRuse on <06-10-19/2121:36>
Going to jump in here with some notes and questions that occurred as I went through this:

Macro Level

Force Size: You have 22x brigades there, roughly analogous to a US brigade combat team (BCT) in their composition (except for the MLRs, more on that later), sturctured on the Russian/Chinese territoriial command HQ concept. All of them motorized or armored. This requires significant logistical and institutional support beyond just money...

For comparison, the active US army, with ~475k soldiers, fields 31x active BCTs.  The russians field considerably more - perhaps 38x or so, though with substantial variation in logistics, training budgets, equipping, and maintenance - with ~350k soldiers. They are somewhat less invested in all the institutional goodies western armies take for granted (do the Sioux like having plenty of military hospitals, education programs for enlisted, consistent officer training, incentives to keep career soldiers, research labs, significant over-carriage of leaders to allow rapid expansion in war time, decent instructor to instructed rations in basic training  and so forth?) to get there. At "Russian" levels you would have ~200k Sioux in service in the ground forces alone in any given year. At "US" levels you would have over 300k. 

That is about 3-5% of the population in the army alone, which is only 80% of the SDF. While not full on World War levels, you are surpassing Cold War Soviet per capita manpower commitments to the active force. That's a hell of a bill to keep paying in peace time.

 It's even more enormous when you realize that if the army is predominantly conscripts, then with a population that small you are looking at a very high draft rate. The Israelis draft about a quarter of their eligible draft class each year, and they only manage to keep about ~100k conscripts in the forces despite having 8.7M citizens. Even at the low end, close to 45% of any Sioux high school class will end up in the army for 2.5 years or more. Over 50% with the other services.  And that's at the low end. At a "US" end of required backside support for a "well trained, well equipped" army, 2/3rds of every draft class are being called up in peace time. I'm not Milton Friedman, but I'm guessing the effects on the national economy and character would be dramatic. 

Simply, if the SDF was this big it would come at a pretty vast societal cost. Not an unpayable one - look at North Korea, they do it - but profoundly high and society shaping.

Force Cost. So, SR costs are always wonky based on developer absurdism and play balance, but 22x armored and motorized brigades won't be cheap. They will, even with "T-72" design mentality, be very expensive to maintain, train on, base, provide sufficient training areas for, and so forth.  They'll be even less cheap if you do things like include extraordinarily expensive MLRS systems with every brigade. (Already expensive to procure, long range MLRS as opposed to MRLs maintain prohibitively high "per shot" costs which makes the mere act of keeping enough ammo on hand a national endeavor with full military-industrial complex coordination involved to prevent inefficient "everyone gets a basic load" approaches, let alone keeping crews and systems certified...) Anyhow, the question would come on whether or not the NAN could afford to maintain a great power class military investment.

Force Composition The more or less modified 2019 US BCT is questionable given that SR features substantial autonomous drone capability, magic(hell, these guys only exist because they managed to be the only magical WMD game in town for a bit), an omnipresent Matrix, and so forth. It is unlikely they would have drag and dropped a basic human oriented force structure into a world where there are several other options.
 
Strategic Sense You've got the SDF set up to fight a big, conventional, mechanized war. Sweeping movements across the American southwest. You also have them set up on a "good enough guns" mentality. The problem is that in a big, sweeping, armored war in the desert and high plains, "smaller than you and only ok in gear" is not a winning combination. Second best means lots of armored coffins and shrapnel shredded howitzer crews. And if you have 60,000 T-34s to beat 6,000 Panthers with, that's fine. The Sioux, alas, are not in that situation. So you are having them invest in a capacity that is prohibitively expensive, but likely will only create a bunch of prohibitively expensive hulks if they square off with the UCAS.

Aztlan has shown a preference for limited, hybrid warfare based in Amazonia which is not what a big mech and artillery based force is built for. No doubt Aztlan uses ethnic differences to keep a constant low grade "Reconquista revolution" going on in the south NAN. Which means a lot of these very expensive motorized, armored, and rocket artillery forces will be parking their heavy stuff. Unless they plan on patrolling their slums in tanks.

Perhaps they can deter the CAS? But given the CAS are likely allies of convenience against the two biggest regional threats to the Sioux, they are probably lowest on the "people we need to be able to win a war against, or least force it to the negotiating table before the government collapses" list, and even if it came to slugging it out with a similar force in the CAS the price will get prohibitive pretty quick.

I guess I would ask why the NAN would invest in such a strategically inappropriate force concept? While no government is ever going to say "we will simply let them roll over us and then see how they like guerrilla war" (it tends to shorten the life expectancy for sitting heads of state, for one), nor are they going to embrace foolish attempts to draw a line in the sand they know will end in their obliteration. You might want to brush up on Iranian mosaic defense, North Korean defense en-masse, or other regional power military structures and doctrines
 
I think I've probably got long winded here, so I'll refrain from going into descending levels of detail.   
Title: Re: Sioux Defense Forces: An In-Depth Study
Post by: StavOnTheRun on <06-10-19/2256:18>
...in other words, the whole thing is wrong in your opinion?

You'll have to forgive me for not being a great military theorist, this whole thing is an experiment. Let me see if I can summarize what I think you are saying in a bulleted list.

-Reduce total number of brigades due to manpower constraints.
-Reclassify remaining brigades to lower the motorized/armored number to increase cost effectiveness.
-Eliminate rocket-launching units to increase cost effectiveness.
-Increase Matrix and Magical Warfare specific units and introduce Drone Warfare specific units.
-Restructure units for hybrid, low-level warfare.
Title: Re: Sioux Defense Forces: An In-Depth Study
Post by: GloriousRuse on <06-11-19/1611:39>
I think this force structure does not serve the NAN's strategic needs, largely because it is not tied to feasible concepts for them. Rather than try a bullet point adjustment, you might want to do a full review of the types of wars and "not-war-but-actually-really-kinda-wars" they might end of up (or are currently) fighting in the gray areas, what their anticipated goals are in those conflicts, how they would achieve them, and only then what means they would have and create to that end. Right now you have them locked very much in a very much great power mindset - big, mechanized, homogenously organized, offensive capable armies for imposing positive goals rapidly by occupation or control, generically tooled because there are so many possible uses. Nations like Russia, China, and the US maintain these types of armies. Not many other people have the need, or luxury, of investing like that. Even Israel has a different force structure, and they are probably the most "western standard" of the second tier powers. I think this likely has to be addressed before you can start switching out items. 

That said, there are plenty of real world examples of catastrophic force design, or force design that was meant for one situation failing horribly in another, so it is entirely possible (though not very canon, as Tecumseh has pointed out) that the SDF has been lured down a dead end into something like you have them at.

After all, when the Iraqi Army rolled forward forth into the desert to take on the Americans in a game of armored warfare, their leadership no doubt thought that they could win - or at least achieve a negotiated peace. After all, they had a vaguely Soviet organizational concept, with export Soviet (and some American) stuff - and hadn't the Europeans spent decades proving this type of force worked? It was certainly good enough to stand off their much larger Iranian neighbors for a decade, and while they were there, didn't they prove they could slaughter wave of holy cannon fodder? Why build something else when clearly this worked, when no doubt it could at least do something against an invader? Sure, it wasn't as technolgically advanced or professionally trained as the Americans, but it was a pretty big army and had some not-bad equipment. Understandable assumptions, just ones that turned out to be horribly wrong. Maybe the Sioux have made simple errors in judgement.

Maybe they've been lured in by the promies of technology, like third world countries buying a handful 1970's fighter jets for prestige or the delusion that four old Migs will somehow make them a power plyaer. it is far from impossible that the Sioux would end up where you have them, it would just the type of mistake that tends to end with the end of a nation.





Title: Re: Sioux Defense Forces: An In-Depth Study
Post by: Beta on <06-11-19/1843:18>
Another model to possibly look at it how Finland organized its forces in the cold war.  Its situation with respect to the Soviet Union (or even now with respect to Russia) was not too far off the Sioux with the UCAS, and Finland is anothe rcountry with universal male conscription (or at least was, they could have dropped it more recently and I might not have noticed)
Title: Re: Sioux Defense Forces: An In-Depth Study
Post by: StavOnTheRun on <06-11-19/2040:57>
Alright, so thanks to GloriousRuse, the diagnosed problem with the initial model is that it is stuck in a Cold War-era, Great Power paradigm that is unsuited to the 6th World in general and the Sioux Nation in specific. Or so at least that is what I am gathering so far, if I have misinterpreted you, please forgive me.

Wiping the slate clean then, as suggested, let's start at the beginning with position, needs, and strategy, pulling from source material as much as possible.

General Position
-The Sioux Nation is largely bordered on three sides (South, West, and North) by other Native American Nations that they have good relations with and thus are very unlikely to be the scenes of large-scale conventional warfare (6th World Almanac.).

-The Sioux Nation is bordered on the Eastern side by the UCAS, the largest adversary, which it cannot compete with in typical stand-and-deliver conventional fashion (Shadows in Focus: Sioux Nation.).

-The Sioux Nation has taken on the role of 'NAN Police', involving itself in the security matters, training, and equipping of other NAN militaries along with regime changes when necessary. (Sixth World Almanac.).

General Strategy
-Fighting withdrawals to the western regions while a Ghost Dance is organized, large-and-small scale insurgent operations with little direct oversight in occupied regions, conventional operations aimed at strategically important points (Shadows In Focus: Sioux Nation.).

Strategic Needs
-Protection of the borders with NAN nations are at a lower priority than the border with the UCAS due to friendly relations and the lack of a conventional threat.

-Protection of the border with the UCAS is at the highest priority. The SDF cannot compete directly for very long, and so must operate primarily indirectly with asymmetric warfare.

-Deployable expeditionary forces to be utilized in the assisting, training, and equipping of fraternal Native American Nations.

Solutions to Strategic Needs
1. A small amount professional and conventional forces to be a show of power, to be morale-boosting formations, to slow down UCAS advances, and to conduct the aforementioned strikes at strategically vital points.

2. A much larger number of smaller, local, more independent forces to handle the three relatively safe borders, to conduct COIN operations in case of foreign proxies (The aforementioned Aztlan influences), and to conduct insurgent operations themselves in occupied zones.

3. A small number of highly trained, professional, and experienced troops available for foreign deployments.



Am I getting in the right direction here, GloriousRuse?
Title: Re: Sioux Defense Forces: An In-Depth Study
Post by: Voran on <06-12-19/0613:21>
My opinion would be to make sure they aren't all considered Professional 2+ ratings.  Like any large organization, they'll be scrubs and those that got ahead despite sheer weight of 'lack of qualifications'.  Also again, my opinion, but I like the general notion that while NAN (including Sioux) can have some trained skirmishers and special forces types, the nature of how they won the war (basically super magic bullshit rather than skill) would lean to later generations actually thinking they're all top tier operators and badasses.  But unlike Aztlan, don't really have 'full war' experience against decent opponents.

A 'numbers vs quality' kind of thing, but as their own nation they have an even more limited pool of active service types.  Also considering that with their lower overall population they'll have less ability to support a standing military via taxes and stuff.  Plus the support/logistic structure needed to support the field numbers.  I'm thinking in general Sioux operate kind of an Israel model, with a relatively high number per capita (25ish per 1000 people maybe?), bit smaller than overall Israel population too.
Title: Re: Sioux Defense Forces: An In-Depth Study
Post by: GloriousRuse on <06-12-19/1529:42>
I think that's a pretty decent starting off point. From here you might want to start saying " ok, so who would do what mission, what do they look like, and how does the siux nation generate that force?"




Title: Re: Sioux Defense Forces: An In-Depth Study
Post by: StavOnTheRun on <06-13-19/1247:33>
I'm thinking that a small number of conventional, professional Brigades are stationed on the border with the UCAS. Say, 3 to 4, to perform the first strategic need: Show of force, morale-boosting, first contact with a UCAS offensive, and so on. Probably well-equipped, up to modern standards with tanks, APCS, artillery, the like. Inspiration from the aforementioned Finish Defense Forces (8 peacetime brigades, but most of them seem small in overall number of men.). Credit to Beta for that.

A territorial force, composed of larger numbers of relatively independent battalions and companies, would serve the second strategic need: COIN, securing the safe borders, and insurgent operations during a state of war with the UCAS. Probably less-well equipped, relying on small arms and man-portable systems.

Obviously the Wildcats fulfill the need of a special force.
Title: Re: Sioux Defense Forces: An In-Depth Study
Post by: Tecumseh on <06-13-19/1642:45>
I think we're on the right path here.

That said, I think there's some room to be suboptimal. GloriousRuse's professional "this is what they should do" may not perfectly align with "here is what the Sioux are actually doing."

Shadows in Focus: Sioux Nation is pretty clear that the Sioux Nation takes the nationalism and the jingoism and dials them up to 11. That could easily lead to impractical and inefficient spending patterns that are unwise from the perspective of military strategy but are great politics. The book is clear how one-sided the cold war with the UCAS is, as the Sioux love to patrol the border and rattle their sabers while the UCAS yawns and mothballs their bases along the border (p. 21).

In that regard, I think it's supportable to propose a structure that's inefficient, or that includes armaments that Sioux really can't (or shouldn't) afford, all because it looks good to the voters, the majority of whom have been indoctrinated by their collective experiences in the Scouts and as conscripts in the Sioux Defense Force.
Title: Re: Sioux Defense Forces: An In-Depth Study
Post by: StavOnTheRun on <06-13-19/1754:17>
Fair points all around.

As for armaments they cannot afford, I think that the Brigades on the border with the UCAS would be the focus in this area. It's the operational zone that is going to draw the most attention from both local and foreign media and therefore be the most visible. So, to put on a good show, they use the big dogs to wow the spectators. BAE Centurion tanks, Striker LAVs, Devil Rat APCs, Ares Alpha rifles, big-name drones, fancy artillery, the like, all of it awash in Sioux Nation flags and being toted and manned by tribespeople in high-tech armor. Oh, and they're all beautiful people, too, just for that added bit of flavor.

All the while, the forces on the border with UCAS are only a small fraction of the SDF's total manpower (Something like 20% or so) but take up a substantial percentage of their budget, forcing the majority of the SDF to make due with less developed equipment. Trucks instead of APCs, AK rifles instead of Ares Alphas, mortars instead of howitzers and rocket launchers.
Title: Re: Sioux Defense Forces: An In-Depth Study
Post by: Beta on <06-14-19/1802:27>
When looking at some impractical spending, don't forget some overpriced and likely not overly useful air defenses around Cheyenne.  Probably a government bunker somewhere too?  (I mean, those sorts of things didn't work in Iraq in the 2000s, they aren't going to do much good in the 2050s, but they make people feel good and are visible symbols)

However the Sioux may get occaional good deals on weapon systems, since most likely they try to pull other NAN countries to improve their militaries, including investing in compatible weapon systems to make it easier to coordinate together.  Not that the rest of the NAN have great military budgets, but those ten fighter jet orders add up?
Title: Re: Sioux Defense Forces: An In-Depth Study
Post by: Stainless Steel Devil Rat on <06-14-19/1855:39>
Streetpedia has a lot of info that'll be relevant to your project.

I didn't realize it was as recently as 2079 that GW threw everyone (including the Sioux and th test of the NAN) out of the FRFZ. Never mind whether the Sioux service academy was in Denver... There's a non-ball playing free city with a private army and the resources of a great dragon on what used to be one of the Sioux' quiet and secure frontiers.
Title: Re: Sioux Defense Forces: An In-Depth Study
Post by: StavOnTheRun on <06-14-19/2212:30>
Having integrated ideas put forth by you lovely people, here goes take 2.

Hope we're on to something here.


1. Sioux Defence Forces Overview
The Sioux Defence Forces constitute the combined arms formations of the Sioux Nation, dedicated to the protection of the homeland as well as to the training, assisting, and equipping of the other fraternal Native American Nations. The SDF is therefore primarily a defensive organization, focused on combating the most prominent threat to the Sioux Nation: The UCAS. Knowing full well that they cannot compete in a pure conventional war against this adversary, the SDF has a layered and hybrid strategy, relying on conventional, asymmetric, and special forces to make occupation of the Sioux Nation a literal hell for any long-term period.

The Sioux Nation is divided into five Operational Zones: North, East, South, West, and Central. Each Operational Zone has both Ground and Air Components assigned to them for general defense of the Sioux Nation and is led by an Operational Zone Commander. The Eastern OZ is considered to be the most prestigious because of its position on the border with the UCAS and it commands the lion’s share of the SDF military might.

The general strategy of the SDF in the face of UCAS aggression is to conduct fighting withdrawals to the western part of the nation, to use large numbers of small, independent formations as insurgents, and to carefully and precisely strike with conventional and special forces at key strategic areas while a Ghost Dance is organized by the Shamans of the Nation. The Ground Component of the SDF can thusly be broken into three wings: conventional, unconventional, and special. Mandatory conscription, a relatively large budget of 7.9% GDP, and a tenacious warrior-culture have made the Sioux Nation a regional power in North America and the most militarized of all the NAN.

Ground Component

The conventional Ground Component forces are primarily three large, well-equipped, and highly visible Combat Brigades stationed on the border with the UCAS. These include armored, mechanized, and artillery formations intended to perform the initial contact with a UCAS assault and delay them long enough for the reserves to be called up and the rest of the defensive strategy to be enacted. Any man or woman of any tribe my serve in them. The Combat Brigades are directly answerable to the Operational Zone Commander, thus following a typical military command structure, and approximately one-third of their manpower comes from selected conscripts.

The unconventional forces are composed of the vast majority of the Sioux Defense Forces personnel, organized into smaller Tribal Battalions. These formations are primarily conscripts or reserve personnel and carry little in the way of heavy weapons, instead relying on speed, surprise, and violence of action to attain success. They also perform COIN operations throughout the Nation and secure the relatively-safe borders with the AMC, the PCC, and the SSC. During a state of war with the UCAS, they will operate in both large and small scale insurgent operations against the occupation. The Tribal Battalions are mostly ethnically homogeneous in an attempt to increase esprit de corps and breed a ‘hometown heroes’ ethos. Sioux conscripts and reservists typically serve alongside tribal brethren from their own group or among those of ethnically related groups. They plan, coordinate, and execute operations with minimal oversight to allow them to function well in their envisioned insurgent role, but do answer to their Operational Zone Commanders for general readiness and performance.

The special forces are composed of less than 5% of the SDF personnel and are the legendary Wildcats. The Wildcats’ main function, aside from counter-terrorist and intelligence duties, is to be a deployable corps of the SDF and is utilized to train, assist, and equip the fraternal Nations for war. The Sioux Nation has an active interest in the well being of her Native neighbors and invests heavily to ensure their relative stability and security. In this, the Wildcats shine. Any man or woman of any tribe my serve in the Wildcats if they pass selection.

Air Component
The Air Component of the Sioux Defense Forces would be more accurately called an anti-air component. While the Sioux Nation does maintain a small amount of fighter aircraft and both attack and transport VTOLs, the Air Component is primarily organized around ground-based surface-to-air missile sites and interceptor drones. The Air Component is also considered to be a part of the conventional forces, and as such, is focused on combating aggression from the UCAS. Any man or woman of any tribe may serve in them. Selected conscripts account for about one-third of the manpower of the Air Component.

The Air Component has two Special Air Defense Brigades that exist outside of the Operational Zone structure. These two units defend Rapid City and Cheyenne and answer to the military leader of their respective cities. The remaining Air Defense Battalions and aircraft squadrons all answer to their respective Operational Zone Commanders.


SDF Statistics
Ground Component: ~38,000 Active in 1 Wildcat Brigade, 3 Combat Brigades, and 48 Tribal Battalions.
Air Component: ~12,000 Active in 2 Special Air Defense Brigades, 6 Air Defense Battalions, 6 VTOL Squadrons, 4 Attack VTOL Squadrons, and 4 Fighter Squadrons.
Reserve Component: ~150,000 Reserve.

SDF Disposition
Northern OZ
   8 Tribal Battalions, 1 Air Defense Battalion, 1 Transport VTOL Squadron.

Eastern OZ
   16 Tribal Battalions, 2 Air Defense Battalions, 2 Transport VTOL Squadrons.
   3 Combat Brigades, 4 Attack VTOL Squadrons, 4 Fighter Squadrons.

Southern OZ
   8 Tribal Battalions, 1 Air Defense Battalion, 1 Transport VTOL Squadron.

Western OZ
   8 Tribal Battalions, 1 Air Defense Battalion, 1 Transport VTOL Squadron.

Central OZ
   8 Tribal Battalions, 1 Air Defense Battalion, 1 Transport VTOL Squadron.



SDF Tribal Battalion Contributions
Cherokee - 10.
Sioux - 6.
Cheyenne - 5.
Creek and Navajo - 4 Each.
Crow - 3.
Woodlands (Mohawk, Mohegan, Mahican, Onondaga, Delaware, and Oneida) - 3.
Shoshone and Ojibwe - 2 Each.
Lumbee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, Seminole, Arapaho, Apache, Hidatsa, Cree, Potawatomi - 1 Each.

2. Sioux Defense Forces Training
The training cycle for the Sioux Defence Forces really begins years before conscription. The Sioux Scouts is a youth paramilitary organization that almost everyone, including Anglo residents, is a part of. Starting at the age of six, Sioux Scouts are trained in basic survival skills, wilderness navigation, first aid, and other such useful skills. When a Sioux is conscripted and begins their service commitment, they are already a well-rounded recruit with a lot of training underneath their belt.

The first week is in-processing, followed by three weeks of primarily remedial instruction on important topics covered in the Sioux Scouts to ensure everyone is on the same page. The next two months are spent in physical training, education on strategy, tactics, small arms handling, and the military lifestyle. Then, the conscripts are sorted into a Ground Component training group and an Air Component Training group. The trainees are all assigned a specialty consistent with their abilities, and spend the next five months in training tailored to their specialty assignment. Regardless of their specialty, every conscript is expected to be competent in stealth, ambush tactics, escape-and-evasion, and long-term operational independence. Training culminates in a two-week period where a conscript must survive on their own in the Sioux wilderness with only their rucksack.

Once the eight-month training cycle is completed, the conscript is approved and spends the last four months of their service commitment in active duty. Once his year is completed, a conscript may elect to extend their active enlistment or proceed to the reserves, where they will remain for four years. If a conscript extends their enlistment, they may stay in their previously assigned unit, transfer to one of the conventional units, or apply to the Wildcats.

3. Sioux Defense Forces Equipment
SDF equipment must be properly understood in the context of the tripartite division of the armed forces. The conventional Combat Brigades are armed and equipped with high-tech, modern equipment that makes them on-par with many other armed forces across the world. Up-to-date armored combat vehicles, GPS guided artillery batteries, and individual weapons linked into PANs are standardized. Magical, matrix, and drone support are totally integrated to allow the Brigades to conduct full-spectrum warfare. The standard rifle is the FN HAR and combat troops are equipped with full body armor, smart-linked and chemsealed helmets,

The Independent Battalions, however, are armed in a somewhat more rugged manner. Since they lack heavy weapons, they rely mostly on small arms. Single-use anti-tank launchers, man-portable air defense launchers, mines, and mortars provide fire support for light infantry armed with less expensive AK-97s rifles, armored jackets and gas-masks. Magical, matrix, and drone support are integrated as well.

It is fair to say that the Wildcats have access to any weaponry and armor they desire, and the specific models used by them remain a mystery.

In addition to whatever arms and special gear they carry, all SDF troopers are expected to be relatively self-sufficient when it comes to equipment. Each one carries a good quality backpack with a survival kit, at least two liters of water, a combat knife, a tomahawk, a folding entrenching tool, an individual first aid kit, a weaponry cleaning kit, rain poncho, and whatever personal items they would want to carry with them.

Conventional Troops Standard Weaponry and Armor
Pistol: Browning Ultra-Power.
SMG: Ingram Smartgun X.
Rifle: FN HAR.
LMG: Shiawase Arms Nemesis with Shock Pad, Bipod and 100-round belts.
Marksman Rifle: Cavalier Arms Crockett EBR with Suppressor and Bipod.
Armor: FBA with Chemseal and Helmet.

Tribal Battalion and Reserves Standard Weaponry and Armor
Pistol: Colt America L36.
SMG: Cavalier Arms Gladius and Ceska Black Skorpion.
Rifle: AK-97.
LMG: AK-97 with Long Barrel, Bipod, Extended Magazines, and Shockpad.
Marksman Rifle: Ruger 101 with Suppressor and Bipod.
Armor: Armor Jacket with Securitech PP Arms, Helmet, and Rating 6 Respirator.

4. Sioux Defense Forces Unit Structure
SDF Combat Brigade (~3,200 Men.).
      Brigade Headquarters (300 Men.).
      Support Battalion (500 Men.).
      2 Tank Battalions (150 Men Each.).
      2 Mechanized Battalions (600 Men Each.).
      Artillery Battalion (300 Men.).
      Engineer Battalion (300 Men.).
      Magical Warfare Company (100 Men.).
      Matrix Warfare Company (100 Men.).
      Drone Warfare Company (100 Men.).

SDF Special Air Defense Brigade (~2,000 Men.).
      Brigade Headquarters (150 Men.).
      Support Battalion (350 Men.).
      Long-Range SAM Battery (150 Men, x6 Launchers.).
      Medium-Range SAM Battalion (450 Men, x18 Launchers.).
      Short-Range SAM Battalion (450 Men, x36 Launchers.).
      Drone Interceptor Wing (450 Men, x72 Drones.).

SDF Wildcat Brigade (~2,000 Men.).
      Force Headquarters (200 Men.).
      8 Wildcat Squadrons (225 Men Each.).

SDF Air Defense Battalion (~500 Men.).
      Battalion Headquarters (120 Men.).
      Medium-Range SAM Battery (100 Men, x6 Launchers.).
      Short-Range SAM Battery (100 Men, x12 Launchers.).
      Drone Interceptor Squadron (90 Men, x24 Drones.).
      Radar Company (90 Men.).

SDF Tribal Battalion (~400 Men.).
      Battalion Headquarters (90 Men.).
      3 Light Infantry Companies (80 Men Each.).
      Combat Support Company (70 Men.).

SDF Aircraft Squadron (~200 Men.).
      Squadron Headquarters (35 Men.).
      Support Company (90 Men.).
      3 Flights (25 Men, 6 Aircraft Each.).
Title: Re: Sioux Defense Forces: An In-Depth Study
Post by: Rift_0f_Bladz on <06-16-19/1409:36>
This seems much better for any kind of fight, traditional or guerrilla warfare against the UCAS. Better weapon spread, much better armor, for active front line at least. And majority of the Armed Force is equipped with decent weapons and armor. I like how you now take into account, Air, Drone/Matrix, and Magical Support. Spirits are one of the best ways to screw a small on foot team without proper gear or support.
Title: Re: Sioux Defense Forces: An In-Depth Study
Post by: Stainless Steel Devil Rat on <06-16-19/1416:24>
Streetpedia has another fun reference that's very relevant to this project: The Sioux military has more shamans than any other army on earth.  Not just by percentage, but by raw number.  Many serve keeping the Yellowstone anomaly in check.  That in turn sounds like a 3rd domestic priority for the SDF, in addition to/on top of meddling in the affairs of the rest of the NAN "for their own good".
Title: Re: Sioux Defense Forces: An In-Depth Study
Post by: StavOnTheRun on <06-16-19/1743:59>
Regarding the number of shamans, I've been wondering what the best way to utilize them in the structure is. I initially imagined a Shaman or two attached to each unit headquarters (Say, 1 to each platoon, 1 or 2 to each company, 1 or 2 to each battalion), but I'm not sure if the final numbers accurately reflect the preponderance of awakened in the Sioux.

A Tribal Battalion under my most recent iteration (Not posted yet, work in progress) would have 12-15 Shamans out of a total of 500 men. Does that number seem too low?
Title: Re: Sioux Defense Forces: An In-Depth Study
Post by: Wakshaani on <06-17-19/0252:52>
Regarding the number of shamans, I've been wondering what the best way to utilize them in the structure is. I initially imagined a Shaman or two attached to each unit headquarters (Say, 1 to each platoon, 1 or 2 to each company, 1 or 2 to each battalion), but I'm not sure if the final numbers accurately reflect the preponderance of awakened in the Sioux.

A Tribal Battalion under my most recent iteration (Not posted yet, work in progress) would have 12-15 Shamans out of a total of 500 men. Does that number seem too low?

Magicians are about 1 in 100,000 people, so, that's a number that'd be rather too high, I'd think. You'll also see more Adepts being used, Summoners behind the lines, Sorcerers near the front, PhysAds in special units, Apprentices (aka Shamanic Adepts) in special locations … Detection people near HQ, Healing people just behind the line, etc.

You could get away with one Adept per battalion, in the HQ section, and no one would grumble I'd think.

The big scare is the ritual casters, way back in safe territory, dropping massive spells powered by a dozen or so mages a couple hundred klicks away.
Title: Re: Sioux Defense Forces: An In-Depth Study
Post by: GloriousRuse on <07-15-19/1639:26>
Regarding magic users:

They go up in value at the higher levels of war. Think of it this way:

Tactically, one of the 870 mages in the nation (assuming 1:100k, 8.7M pop) can cast a fireball. Or summon a spirit. Now your squad has something that explodes, or another person. Great, but you could just buy a grenade launcher and a tenth person.

Or he could make four tanks improved invisible. Which is something hard to replicate, and will definitely kill more yanks, but eventually they'll find and kill those tanks and him riding in them..

Kept back a bit, he can keep sending endless free waves of spirits at the enemy. They can do recon at near light speed, or serve as completely disposable and replaceable fighters. He can scout locally with no danger to himself. He can send his eyeball floating, with invisibility on it, and serve as an unseen magical artillery battery. But drones can do recon and hit things with missiles, and you could always just use artillery as artillery.

Kept back even further, he can summon a mega-spirit and tell it to go kill the enemy's political leaders or commanders, popping up massive threats in in the lightest defended areas, and he can keep doin it until he is eventually caught.

And then we get to ritual magic. "If you don't find these fifteen men, Manhattan goes beneath the waves. Sure you don't want to negotiate?"

---------------------

Now, thats the harsh view of "realism." But since players are, almost by definition, extraordinary outliers to the point of basically being cheating bastards, you may find that waht is "realistic" is not what is best for challenging the players. So you may up the magical presence at the low level just for the gameplay, regardless of it it makes canonical sense. Don't feel too bad about it either..if the players say "nuh-uh, they would never have two mages in a platoon! (while they rock a Magic 6 mage and 2 adepts ina gorup of 5)" you can juts let them know that the "realistic" solution to them would be to kill them with a 500 pound they never saw and never had a chance of seeing, from a drone floating 50,000 feet above them.



Title: Re: Sioux Defense Forces: An In-Depth Study
Post by: Stainless Steel Devil Rat on <07-15-19/1644:51>
Military application of magic is probably most effective in recon and special operations... you know, the kinds of things that are similar to shadowruns.

Open battle is going to generate such a nasty background count that magic ceases to be a viable option before long.