Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Rules and such => Topic started by: sigfriedmcwild on <09-18-19/1930:49>
-
Fueled by the disappointment in SR6, I've been diving into my old books and started looking at what the same character would be like across editions.
Anyway I was looking at Smartlink/Smartgun and what it required across editions:
- 3rd: Game effect: -2TN to hit and allows switching mode and ejecting clips as a free action (there's also a smartlink-2 and some accessories you can add)
Smartlink is an implant, if you don't want an implant, you can get smart goggles for a -1TN (and nothing else) - 4th: Game effect: +2 bonus on attacks and allows switching mode and ejecting clips as a free action
Smartlink is a vision enhancement, you can put it in cyber eyes or goggles, nobody cares? - 5th: Game effect: +2 Accuracy, wireless bonus: +1/+2 bonus on attacks allows switching mode and ejecting clips as a free action
Smartlink is a vision enhancement, you can put it in cyber eyes or goggles, you get the higher bonus to hit if it is implanted. There's some mention of a smartgun needing DNI for the wireless bonus, but I'm not entirely clear if that restriction is intended. Also if a character is wearing trodes which provide DNI without an implant can they get the wireless bonus? Do they still need the vision enhancement part? - 6th: Game effect: +2 Attack Rating, with DNI allows changing modes and reloading as a minor action, wireless bonus: +1 bonus on attack, gain a minor action when changing mode or reloading
Smartlink is yet again a vision enhancement, there doesn't seem to be any bonus to implanting. Again DNI is mentioned as a requirement for getting the wireless bonus, which leads to the same questions as 5th
Does this seem correct? Did I miss something obvious? Is 4th really the best edition for the gun toting adept?
-
Could you clarify what you mean by nobody cares in your entry for 4th?
I was under the impression that going from -2TN to +2 dice was a pretty big nerf, myself, but I could be wrong about that.
-
Nobody cares if the smartlink is implanted or not.
Yes, -2 TN is a much bigger bonus than +2 dice, but without implants in SR3 you only get -1TN (still a big bonus) and lose all the free actions.
SR4 is where not having an implanted smartlink is the closest relatively to the implanted smartlink in the same edition (SR6 may also be there, depending on how the DNI requirements are interpreted)
-
Personal preference in SR3, I'd take the implant and something else small like a datajack or cybereyes/ears, then geas the lost point. Pretty dangerous with Improved Ability (preferred firearm skill).
-
Yeah, -2 TN was huge in 2nd and 3rd edition. It was the only cyberware my overpowered 2nd edition shaman got, because there's no way you're going to shoot guns without it.
By comparison, the 5e +2 bonus to your limit was disappointing. The wireless bonus does more than the implant itself, which feels weird. Although you could argue that without wireless you can't even contact your gun, so maybe it makes sense that wireless is pretty much a requirement for this.
-
Yeah, SR3 -> SR4 -> SR5 is a steady stream of nerfs to smartlink it feels like.
And yeah, getting the implant and geasing that magic point is definitely a very strong option.
-
::5th edition::
The smartgun features are accessed either by:
universal access port cable to an imaging device (like glasses, goggles, or a datajack for someone with cybereyes)
This give you the following bonuses:
1. Built in camera (which let you shoot around corner without taking the blind fire modifier)
3. Built in laser range finder
4. Keep track of ammunition, heat buildup, and material stress (which increase the accuracy limit by 2 if you have a smartlink)
5. Firing the gun as a simple action without pressing a physical button
6a. Eject clip as a simple action without pressing a physical button
7a. Switch firing mode as simple action without pressing a physical button
...or by:
a wireless connection working in concert with direct neural interface.
This give you the following bonuses:
1. Built in camera (which let you shoot around corner without taking the blind fire modifier)
3. Built in laser range finder
4. Keep track of ammunition, heat buildup, and material stress (which increase the accuracy limit by 2 if you have a smartlink)
5. Firing the gun as a simple action without pressing a physical button
6b. Eject clip as a free action without pressing a physical button
7b. Switch firing mode as free action without pressing a physical button
8. Compensate for wind 1 category
9. Gain both Accuracy and Dice pool modifier at the same time from Take Aim actions
10. Positive dice pool modifier of +1 or +2 dice (external or internal smartlink)
There's some mention of a smartgun needing DNI for the wireless bonus, but I'm not entirely clear if that restriction is intended.
Without DNI you can't send free mental commands to eject clip or change firing mode and without DNI the smartgun system cannot move your body in real-time to compensate for wind or target movement etc which give you bonus dice to hit.
You don't need DNI for firing around corners, gaining +2 accuracy, taking a simple action to eject clip, fire gun or change firing mode without physically touching the gun (for example by using an AR glove to modify an ARO).
Also if a character is wearing trodes which provide DNI without an implant can they get the wireless bonus?
Yes. You can get DNI by wearing trodes or by implanting a datajack, cyberdeck, commlink or control rig.
Do they still need the vision enhancement part?
Yes. A complete Smartgun System consist of both a Smartgun firearm accessory (internal or external) and a Smartlink visual enhancement (internal or external).
-
This actually seems to be a little more nuanced (and some might say complicated) in SR6. Personally speaking, I don't see this as a bad thing, but it's a little in depth.
For one thing, pg. 251, all firearms have a Wireless bonus now. If your gun's wireless bonus is turned on, you get a digital ammo counter and an ARO that tells you what kind of ammo you have loaded. And if you have DNI with your wireless firearm, you get a bonus Minor Action when you eject a clip (for weapons that have cilps) or change firing mode if your weapon has an firing mode. Something to note, however, "Reload a Smartgun" is distinctly a separate action from "Reload Weapon." So the wireless bonus doesn't change the action type, it just gives you a bonus Minor Action. Since reloading your non-smartgun is a Major Action you're getting... half credit(?) when you have wireless on a standard gun now and you reload? A little weird, but harmless, I suppose.
Basic bonuses of a smartgun system in 6e is the camera and range finder which allow firing around a corner without penalty (and the camera has capacity for upgrading). It also lets you keep track of ammo. And if you have DNI, you can eject a clip and change firing mode. This might sound the same as any gun now since all guns have that option with wireless but the smartgun will do that without having wireless on. You'll need to connect via a data cable to do that, I suppose, but you don't have to expose your gun to a hacker to control the gun like you would a standard gun. The computer and software are pre-loaded on the smartgun instead of needing to outsource it over a network. You can also pull the trigger of the gun without needing to actually touch it, which is something a smartgun can do that a standard gun can't.
Reading the system as written and in order, you need the smartlink system to get the +2 Attack bonus. So no visual enhancement, no increase to your gun's accuracy. If you skip to the smartlink visual enhancement, it's basic function is that it displays all the visuals that your gun is spitting out (presumably, with or without needing an image link system). It also provides a targeting dot to targets within line of sight. Presumably, again, this means that if the target isn't in your line of sight you don't get the +2 Attack bonus for using the smartgun since that applies "when using a smartlink" and that doesn't seem to work on targets out of line of sight (like when firing from cover or otherwise using the smartgun camera). I'm okay with this strict interpretation of the RAW because that seems logical.
Last step with the smartgun is that if you are using wireless and connected to a network, then you get +1 dice to the actual attack roll and bonus Minor Actions when reloading (which is a Minor Action when reloading a smartgun) and changing firing mode.
--TLDR, smartguns in 6e are more like any other gun than they were in previous editions, but can do quite a few things that regular guns can't.
Universal Data Connector:
1) They allow you to do some of what other guns do wirelessly without wireless being required
2) They'll let you fire without pulling the trigger which standard guns don't do
3) Simply by the nature of the Actions themselves, they're faster to reload so you only need a Minor Action regardless of wireless on/off
4) If linked to a smartlink that you're able to use for the action, they give a +2 Attack bonus
5) Fire from cover without penalty (may or may not lose the +2 Attack when doing this depending on interpretation of smartlink)
Wireless:
6) Everything above plus... you get +1 attack dice and get the Minor Actions that any gun gets when wireless now
-
Thanks for the clarifications on SR5 and SR6
-
For one thing, pg. 251, all firearms have a Wireless bonus now. If your gun's wireless bonus is turned on, you get a digital ammo counter and an ARO that tells you what kind of ammo you have loaded. And if you have DNI with your wireless firearm, you get a bonus Minor Action when you eject a clip (for weapons that have cilps) or change firing mode if your weapon has an firing mode.
This is nothing new. Wireless firearms (both wireless smartguns and regular wireless firearms) had the exact same behavior in SR5.
Basic bonuses of a smartgun system in 6e is the camera and range finder which allow firing around a corner without penalty (and the camera has capacity for upgrading). It also lets you keep track of ammo.
This is also SR5 benefits
(smartgun comes with a built in camera, firing from behind cover was -6 dice in SR5 or -3 with a camera, while Cover IV is -2 in SR6 or -0 with a camera)
You can also pull the trigger of the gun without needing to actually touch it, which is something a smartgun can do that a standard gun can't.
This is also a feature from SR5.
Reading the system as written
Smartgun SYSTEM consist of both a smartgun and a smartlink.
Presumably, again, this means that if the target isn't in your line of sight you don't get the +2 Attack bonus for using the smartgun since that applies "when using a smartlink" and that doesn't seem to work on targets out of line of sight (like when firing from cover or otherwise using the smartgun camera). I'm okay with this strict interpretation of the RAW because that seems logical.
It is in your line of sight since the smartgun comes with a camera. The dot will show up on the line of sight of your camera that your smartlink visual enhancement will display to your eyes / brain.
Was the same in SR5.
Last step with the smartgun is that if you are using wireless and connected to a network, then you get +1 dice to the actual attack roll and bonus Minor Actions when reloading (which is a Minor Action when reloading a smartgun) and changing firing mode.
Also in SR5.
-
Not sure if you meant to come off as condescending as you did, but thanks for the clarification!
I was referring specifically to SR6, not comparing. But I can see how the way I started my post might have come off like I was disagreeing with you and I should have been more clear.
Sorry about that! My pedantry gets away from me sometimes.
Seeing it side by side is helpful, though
-
So yes, there is no doubt that 6e's Smartlink is pretty much the worst one was have seen to date, but that's not surprising as the same can be said about 6e in general. Now AR is just slightly less useless then DR, don't get me wrong it's still mostly useless. But of the two AR vs DR, if the thing is going to work then AR is the one to bet on. Yes sense all you can get for success is a point of edge, and as I think we have gone through there is just too many points of failure and thus we see it achieve mostly uselessness. As with ADPS ammo, the advantage is we can now remove smartlinks from the need to buy list. So that's some kind silver-lining.
-
So yes, there is no doubt that 6e's Smartlink is pretty much the worst one was have seen to date, but that's not surprising as the same can be said about 6e in general.
Well, that's not what I took away from it, but your gaming table, your interpretation, right?
-
Anyway I was looking at Smartlink/Smartgun and what it required across editions:
Ah, a reason to dust off my old books! Since 1st and 2nd was not on your list, I've brought out my old copies and provided them below:
- 1st: Game effect: -2 Target Number, used in Resisted Success Tests during Fire Combat. No effect on reloading.
Requires a smartgun, which is either a built-in version or an adapter type, as well as an implanted smartgun link (without this, the smartgun "hardware is just dead weight"). Incompatible with Smart Goggles, which are -1 TN - 2nd: Game effect: As previous, but also adds Change Smartgun Fire Mode and Eject Smartgun Clip as free actions (smartgun must be readied in order to use these).
Requires a Smartgun System, which is either Internal or External, and a Smartgun Link or Smart Goggles (which determines the modifier). Interestingly, this edition adds Laser Sights, which for all intents and purposes are compatible with Smartgun Systems as far as I can remember / find.
Not much change from 1st through 3rd, honestly. I would be interested to review if the overall dice pool changes throughout the editions further changed how the TN reduction / dice pool modifier impacted the benefit of a smartgun. But, that'll have to wait until tomorrow.
-
Anyway I was looking at Smartlink/Smartgun and what it required across editions:
- 2nd: Game effect: As previous, but also adds Change Smartgun Fire Mode and Eject Smartgun Clip as free actions (smartgun must be readied in order to use these).
Requires a Smartgun System, which is either Internal or External, and a Smartgun Link or Smart Goggles (which determines the modifier). Interestingly, this edition adds Laser Sights, which for all intents and purposes are compatible with Smartgun Systems as far as I can remember / find.
SR2, p. 240, under laser sights: "Such sights may not be used with any kind of smartlink system."
-
SR2, p. 240, under laser sights: "Such sights may not be used with any kind of smartlink system."
Nice, thanks. Missed that bit. Good to see those things haven't changed much over the decades.
-
Thanks for the extra info on the older editions!
-
Not sure if you meant to come off as condescending as you did, but thanks for the clarification!
Sorry that was not my intention.
It seem as if the smartgun systems in SR5 and SR6 are quite similar.
So yes, there is no doubt that 6e's Smartlink is pretty much the worst one was have seen to date
You are quite clear in your posts that you don't like SR5 (and that is fine, everyone can not like everything), but could you please elaborate what you specifically think is bad about the smartgun system (game mechanic wise) in 6th edition compared to for example how smartgun systems worked in 5th edition - because as i read it they are (game mechanic wise) quite similar.
-
So yes, there is no doubt that 6e's Smartlink is pretty much the worst one was have seen to date
You are quite clear in your posts that you don't like SR6 (and that is fine, everyone can not like everything), but could you please elaborate what you specifically think is bad about the smartgun system (game mechanic wise) in 6th edition compared to for example how smartgun systems worked in 5th edition - because as i read it they are (game mechanic wise) quite similar.
Absolutely, the primary failing of the 6e conversion of weapons is the AR/DR system, I don't necessarily think the concept is bad, simplification could be fine. But under the current implementation the system's total disconnect from dice rolls makes AR v DR meaningless (As well as opening 6e up to armor is meaningless argument). Where players should be encouraged to invest in raising AR and DR by some kind of roll interface, that functionality doesn't exist. Where Edge is intended to be that, it has to many arbitrary points of failure in the process to accept that's its a valid interface (the 4 point range, the gain limit restrictions, a variety strange misc gear mods, qualities etc). Damage value and pools are the only meaningful values, as they are the only ones that actually interface with combat results. As such the 6e smartlink gives you AR primarily which as I explained isn't a meaningful value so it's a waste of resource to use it. (The same argument applies to ADPS as well.) The bonus to hit die, and action economy mods, are easier to solve with other options, and as such those resources should be saved for those options. If an AR/DR interface were added, this issue would require re-examination, but as I don't foresee any such changes occurring beyond perhaps a house rule it's not something I'm concerned with.
-
[...]
As such the 6e smartlink [...] The bonus to hit die, and action economy mods, are easier to solve with other options, [...]
Where would that bonus to hit die else come from ?
-
[...]
As such the 6e smartlink [...] The bonus to hit die, and action economy mods, are easier to solve with other options, [...]
Where would that bonus to hit die else come from ?
I thought it under the wireless bonus. But I read equipment section quickly and I may not be recalling it correctly. Ether way it doesn't change my argument.
-
[...]
As such the 6e smartlink [...] The bonus to hit die, and action economy mods, are easier to solve with other options, [...]
Where would that bonus to hit die else come from ?
I thought it under the wireless bonus. But I read equipment section quickly and I may not be recalling it correctly. Ether way it doesn't change my argument.
:o I didnt question the existence of the wireless Bonus Die. I wonder why you wrote that the Bonus is pointless. Since its no augmentation but a wireless Bonus. There is no other way to get that Bonus. Unless you have read some new Errata before its released of whatever.
-
[...]
As such the 6e smartlink [...] The bonus to hit die, and action economy mods, are easier to solve with other options, [...]
Where would that bonus to hit die else come from ?
I thought it under the wireless bonus. But I read equipment section quickly and I may not be recalling it correctly. Ether way it doesn't change my argument.
:o I didnt question the existence of the wireless Bonus Die. I wonder why you wrote that the Bonus is pointless. Since its no augmentation but a wireless Bonus. There is no other way to get that Bonus. Unless you have read some new Errata before its released of whatever.
I don’t think I’m following what you are taking issue with in my argument. Can you explain your point more clearly? Are you addressing My views on AR/DR? Are you saying the wireless die makes the device worth the resources cost?
-
Are you saying the wireless die makes the device worth the resources cost?
exactly. Its about 2500Y and you get one extra dice, if your device is Running Silent behind the Groups Hacker Deck its a low risk too.
-
Absolutely, the primary failing of the 6e conversion of weapons is the AR/DR system...
Why all this text about AR/DR? Yes, a smartgun system in SR6 also increase AR by 2 (which is very similar to how a smartgun system in SR5 increased Accuracy by 2), but this is hardly the main reason why you get a smartgun system.....?
In SR5 [wireless] smartgun system increased dice pool
In SR6 [wireless] smartgun system increase dice pool
-
Absolutely, the primary failing of the 6e conversion of weapons is the AR/DR system...
Why all this text about AR/DR? Yes, a smartgun system in SR6 also increase AR by 2 (which is very similar to how a smartgun system in SR5 increased Accuracy by 2), but this is hardly the main reason why you get a smartgun system.....?
In SR5 [wireless] smartgun system increased dice pool
In SR6 [wireless] smartgun system increase dice pool
Accuracy has a meaningfully interface with the roll in question where AR/DR does not. In short Accuracy does something, keeping more success is meaningful to the roll and as such is worth the investment, the a +2 to hit is a decent bonus and in conjunction with it's accuracy bonus, together they make it worth the essence cost and the risk of running around with wireless up. Sadly the nether are true for 6e it's primary function a +2 AR is useless and it's wireless one die isn't a large enough bonus justify the risk or the costs. Sure if you like the 6e smartlink you should feel free to pay that for a single die bonus that leave yourself open to attack. But the cost and risk out ways the a single die bonus as I see it. There will always be more ware, and new ways to get bonuses, better save the resources and wait for something less useless. The cyberware or combat book I'm sure will have new and better options.
Now I certainly will agree the 5e Smartlink isn't as good as the 3e smartlink. But the 5e smartlink is still several times more useful then 6e smartlink. Thus 6e is the worst one yet.
Xenon, you asked me to "elaborate what you specifically think is bad about the smartgun system (game mechanic wise) in 6th edition compared to for example how smartgun systems worked in 5th edition" and I have done so. I hope they errata in a way to make AR/DR useful. AR/DR not be meaningful is major failing of 6e. Making AR/DR effect pools could over come the useless armor flaw, with another small change it also fix the str being meaningless on melee flaw as well. Another point to be considered is could re-open the tank Archetype, something I think 6e was foolish to close the door on. Now I have suggested a solution. (IE Make the net difference on the AR v DR comparison a bonus or a penalty to the related attack pool. Your going to have to do that math anyways, so taking it a step further isn't going to increase complexity.) I don't think they will take it of course, but I have done my part on trying to get it fixed.
-
Why all this text about AR/DR? Yes, a smartgun system in SR6 also increase AR by 2 (which is very similar to how a smartgun system in SR5 increased Accuracy by 2), but this is hardly the main reason why you get a smartgun system.....?
How are AR/DR and Accuracy “very similar”? They’re entirely different mechanics with entirely different outcomes. In particular because there are a wide range of scenarios where +2 AR won’t affect the Edge calculation, whereas +2 to the dice test limit always confers some bonus.
In SR5 [wireless] smartgun system increased dice pool
In SR6 [wireless] smartgun system increase dice pool
The first bonus is +2 dice, the second bonus is +1 die. Hence Marcus saying the 6e bonus is less. Seems unarguably true to me.
-
Xenon, you asked me to "elaborate what you specifically think is bad about the smartgun system (game mechanic wise) in 6th edition compared to for example how smartgun systems worked in 5th edition" and I have done so.
The reason why I asked was because I personally find them mechanically very similar (as the primary reason why you use one is because it act as a positive dice pool modifier when you fire your smartgun.... I thought that you maybe missed that and that you perhaps compared the positive dice pool modifier it got in earlier edition with just the AR increase in SR6, which would properly explain your frustration).
(I maybe not agree to all what you said, but I think it is OK that we have different opinions on the matter - at least now I understand better what you meant - thank you for elaborating).
-
Why all this text about AR/DR? Yes, a smartgun system in SR6 also increase AR by 2 (which is very similar to how a smartgun system in SR5 increased Accuracy by 2), but this is hardly the main reason why you get a smartgun system.....?
How are AR/DR and Accuracy “very similar”? They’re entirely different mechanics with entirely different outcomes. In particular because there are a wide range of scenarios where +2 AR won’t affect the Edge calculation, whereas +2 to the dice test limit always confers some bonus.
In SR5 [wireless] smartgun system increased dice pool
In SR6 [wireless] smartgun system increase dice pool
The first bonus is +2 dice, the second bonus is +1 die. Hence Marcus saying the 6e bonus is less. Seems unarguably true to me.
6e Wireless vulnerability to hacking is unarguably less than 5e. Matrix Perception Action is a one minute base time in 6e unless you have Resonance or a Cyberdeck. So unless they've got someone with a 30K Nuyen cyberdeck watching the door, you can walk right on in with your Smartlink on in 6E. That was not a given in 5e.
And if you use the RAI for PAN protection, your team's Decker has a much easier time taking care of the team's Matrix crap in 6e.
Personally I think being able to ignore/hand off all the Matrix vulnerabilities to the decker is worth the 1 dice. YMMV though.
-
Where are you reading about the 1 minute test?
As I read it;
To find a specific icon that is running silent is typically a matrix perception (electronics + intuition) major action, but if you are using a cyberdeck (or a cyberjack or a living persona) then it is only a minor action.
Tracing a specific icon you already have admin access on is also an electronics + intuition major action.
Searching databases for a particular subject is instead an extended electronics + intuition test with a 10 minute interval.
-
Not in the Action descriptions, in the Matrix section nearish the running silent rules. Don't have a page reference on me.
-
6e Wireless vulnerability to hacking is unarguably less than 5e. Matrix Perception Action is a one minute base time in 6e unless you have Resonance or a Cyberdeck. So unless they've got someone with a 30K Nuyen cyberdeck watching the door, you can walk right on in with your Smartlink on in 6E. That was not a given in 5e.
And if you use the RAI for PAN protection, your team's Decker has a much easier time taking care of the team's Matrix crap in 6e.
Personally I think being able to ignore/hand off all the Matrix vulnerabilities to the decker is worth the 1 dice. YMMV though.
Hobbes if your looking to brick stuff and have the common sense of a beagle, you're going to have ether resonance or a deck. So I don't see the point of that argument. 5e had protections too, so nothing has really changed there as I have read it, sure you have to build to do, but if you do then you can do it. As to RIA, as it stands RAI is currently less meaningful in 6e then it was 5e, as the pretty much whole sections of the CRB is basically just a RAI argument at the moment. When all the typos and contradictions are settled out then RAW might have some meaning.
-
Not looking to brick stuff, just looking. 5E samurai Logic plus Sleaze is what 3 Dice or so probably? Any Mall Cop just taking three seconds to check out the array of Icons on the scary looking cyber dude walking their way is going to have a decent chance to spot the silent running Icons. 6E, less so.
Drawing attention bad. 6E, much less likely to draw that initial scrutiny.
And if the actual writer of the Maxtrix rules clearly and repeatedly stating what the intention was isn't good enough for you, nothing I have to say will change your mind. Which is fine. I understand wanting the RAW to be clear.
-
It gets interesting when the Player Groups Hacker has a Sleaze+Willpower Dicepool of 14 (Cyberjack VI and Willpower 6).
The Professional Rating 6 Example Technomancer "Mook" has an Opposed Dicepool against that of Intuition 5 + Electronics 6
14 vs 11 so a fair chance to succeed staying hidden. And if the Hacker wants to squeeze everything out of the Rules he can get well over 20 Dice .
And after beeing spotted there is the "Hide" Matrix Action as well.
But Marcus has still a valid point. Depending on the GM the Smartlink will be a liability. You have to carry a second smaller Weapon at least if your main Weapon gets bricked and so on...
But if the Opposition has reasonable Dicepools the Smartlink can work fine imo.
-
And if the actual writer of the Maxtrix rules clearly and repeatedly stating what the intention was isn't good enough for you, nothing I have to say will change your mind.
It may not be so simple, Hobbes.
That very same author has hinted (and perhaps I am reading too much into some posts) that some one(s) above his pay grade do not want all of the authors RAI to make it to RAW.
At this point, RAI might not mean much compared to RAW.
EDITed to add:
Not in the Action descriptions, in the Matrix section nearish the running silent rules. Don't have a page reference on me.
If you are referring to Matrix Perception, and Running Silent on page 178 then here is the relevant text:
The other way to use Matrix Perception would be to analyze one particular icon or search for a hidden icon. This is also an Electronics + Intuition test and is opposed by the Willpower + Sleaze of the target.
(Note, not extended)
Making a Matrix Perception test to find someone running silent is a typically a Major Action, but if performed by a runner with a cyberdeck, cyberjack, or a Resonance attribute, it is a Minor Action.
-
Not looking to brick stuff, just looking. 5E samurai Logic plus Sleaze is what 3 Dice or so probably? Any Mall Cop just taking three seconds to check out the array of Icons on the scary looking cyber dude walking their way is going to have a decent chance to spot the silent running Icons. 6E, less so.
Drawing attention bad. 6E, much less likely to draw that initial scrutiny.
And if the actual writer of the Maxtrix rules clearly and repeatedly stating what the intention was isn't good enough for you, nothing I have to say will change your mind. Which is fine. I understand wanting the RAW to be clear.
The mall guard waking past you probably won’t but the dude at their hub does. Guard calls in hey bob can you check out the scary dude I’m sending you a pic of now.
Takes 2-3 combat turns and I assume happens routinely any time the guard is looking at you enough for him to check in 5e.
Not sure how it will work out overall. But I’m not seeing a significant increase in utility of wireless in 6e.
-
You're seriously telling me we are now worried about mall cops detecting runners?
How far the mighty have fallen. smh.
-
I assumed it was a ritzy mall in a aaa neighborhood. Maybe part of a Corp facility otherwise there really isn’t security for runners to worry about.
-
Isn't that the typical course of Shadowrun discussion, though? The rules put in some particular idea like gear being spotted by one kind of fancy tech or another and don't explicitly lay out the when, where, and how that fancy tech gets used, so the assumption mill starts running and before you know it every location that isn't crime friendly or explicitly decrepit has MAD scanners and on-sight security teams with all the latest tech and with dice pools to use it that push characters to max out their "you don't know I'm a criminal" dice pools just to feel like maybe they might occasionally actually get away with the kind of crime that is happening constantly according to the setting description.
And yeah, it's really difficult to see the increase in utility of wireless in 6e when you are actively discounting and/or undoing the changes made to the rules that affect things. It's also a little blurry of a subject, for me at least, because the ability to screw with someone's wireless gear seems a lot more straight-forward now than it was - but the ability to foil that and/or recover it also being straight-forward and relatively low cost wins out, I believe.
Still waiting to see how my players feel on the matter, since they have historically skipped out on all wireless bonuses because the risk didn't feel worth it and we've only got a few sessions under our belts so far with SR6 because schedules have gone janky lately.