[Volomon]

I think this is a very good idea, it would even save the players from having to burn a point if they make it successfully.  Of course they can still burn a point to not have to roll at all.  I'm thinking along the lines below.

House Rule: Heavy Damage

If a character takes a significant amount of damage that would result in going from his physical track past his available overflow limit and would result in death, the player makes an Edge (1) Test.  Failure results in the normal rules for passing overflow limits in SR5, death.  Success results in an alternative outcome based on 1D6 random roll.  For bleeding purposes, the character receives double his overflow limit until all current overflow damage is healed.  For example if death would have resulted in an overflow of 6 the player for the duration of his injuries he/she receives 12 until healed via medical or magical assistance.  All normal rules apply for bleeding.  Surpassing this new overflow limit results in death.  The following are possibilities:

• Blood Loss: Wherever those bullets went, they took part of a major artery or vein with them. The character will leak precious bodily fluids, 1 additional damage per combat turn is the result.
 
• Broken Bone: A snapped rib, cracked femur, or shattered foot will make the character miserable when he wakes up (if he wakes up).  Apply dice pool and movement modifiers as appropriate, till the character has fully healed all wound boxes.
 
• Implant Destruction: One of the character’s implants’ time has come. His internal commlink may now be a headweight, his chemical gland may have ruptured all over his pants, or his cybereyes may have been ripped from their sockets. The implant will either need some hefty restoration or replacement.

• Irreparable Organ Damage: The character loses a lung, his liver, or his spleen. Though he can continue to live for a short period, he needs serious medical attention and some organ transplant surgery.

• Limb Loss: The character is separated from his arm or another limb and begins dying. Additionally Blood Loss rules apply.

• Major Disfiguration: The character suffers a massive wound that threatens to uglify him for life. Whether he loses part of his skull, an eye and a nose, mangles his hand, or has all of the skin burnt from his face, he will need major cosmetic or transplant surgery and may be unrecognizable in the meantime.  Social modifiers should apply as appropriate, till proper surgery is done.

[Volomon]

No offense but the the mental capacity of any player or gm should already be at that level.

And from where, precisely, did you acquire the delusion that failure to properly perceive a single phoneme has anything to mental capacity?

And for that matter, where do you get the idea that death is so rare in Shadowrun?  There's a reason it's got a reputation as one of the more lethal systems out there - you can pretty much be killed by any attack; even for a light pistol against full body armour the possibility exists.

In any case, four things about Severe Wounds:  ASK your players about using it, don't try to force it on them; do notice that it talks about using it as appropriate to the story (in other words, practice moderation rather than using them every single time); keep in mind that the 7+ damage condition is going to be FAR more common in SR5 than it would be in SR4, given that it is the base damage of a heavy pistol (hits from an Assault Rifle will surpass that almost every time, as your soak roll has to remove something like 3+net hits damage to bring it below that); remember that the Severe Wounds rules are in the same bloody chapter (no pun intended) as the rules for things like cloned replacement limbs (meaning that, with Augmentation in play, you have an Essence-free option for replacing lost limbs).

The mental capacity is in reference to the ability to SOLVE the said example amongst a group of players without all this ridiculous speculation and/or debate.  I've been saying death is a common thing I'm not sure your talking to me at this point, I'll assume you are and are not at the same time.  Everyone ELSE has been saying it should almost never happen or at least that is the impression I get as if a player death is the result of poor gming.  I agree death when I was playing (playing since 1st edition), I don't remember all this light hearted you should attempt to keep them alive no matter what stuff.  The point your bring up has been my point through this whole thread, that death is extremely common and the idea of being attached to a character to the point of rejecting any possibility he might die, is just strange.  I assume you skipped, shame on you.  My thoughts on severe wounds are above I think I've both covered how dangerous SR can be along with give players a clear chance to save their characters should they chose to.

[martinchaen]

You already know what my vote is. I'd have preferred to run with the Season 5 SRM rules in place and no other deviations, since the system is still somewhat new to me and since I'd like to get more familiar with those rules.

[Volomon]

You already know what my vote is. I'd have preferred to run with the Season 5 SRM rules in place and no other deviations, since the system is still somewhat new to me and since I'd like to get more familiar with those rules.

Alright I'll keep this in reserve for now, I think it would come in handy for some players.  Especially new players.  Would lessen the chance of perma-death.  Hopefully while your learning the rules, you don't see the Mr.  Johnson in the Big Shadowrunner Bar in the sky and see the results of the stabilization rules.

[martinchaen]

It's all good, that why my Edge is 5 instead of 2

And to end my contribution, a note on character death from the core SR5 rulebook.

Finally, character deathshould be discussed. Although Shadowrun, Fifth Edition provides many opportunities for a character to prevent their own demise, sometimes things just do not work out. Some groups prefer to stick to the rules, roll the dice, and let whatever happens happen, even to the point of characters dying. Other players may not want all the hard work they put into creating their character and writing a deep and creative background go to waste on a few bad die rolls. The group should decide if permanent character death is acceptable, even if that death is random and not fulfilling for the story. Or can character death only happen when the possibility is specifically foreknown to the player and the death dramatically appropriate for the situation?

I think you know where I stand.

[RHat]

The mental capacity is in reference to the ability to SOLVE the said example amongst a group of players without all this ridiculous speculation and/or debate. 

Ah, that wasn't clear.  Sorry.

I've been saying death is a common thing I'm not sure your talking to me at this point, I'll assume you are and are not at the same time. 

Might have misinterpreted something you mentioned about a player having a "99.9% chance not to die", then - sorry, I've had a looooooong couple of days.

Everyone ELSE has been saying it should almost never happen or at least that is the impression I get as if a player death is the result of poor gming.  I agree death when I was playing (playing since 1st edition), I don't remember all this light hearted you should attempt to keep them alive no matter what stuff.  The point your bring up has been my point through this whole thread, that death is extremely common and the idea of being attached to a character to the point of rejecting any possibility he might die, is just strange.  I assume you skipped, shame on you.  My thoughts on severe wounds are above I think I've both covered how dangerous SR can be along with give players a clear chance to save their characters should they chose to.

I think you're misinterpreting.  The trick is, there's justified character death and unjustified character death, the difference generally being whether you could have done something about it or not, though the latter case also includes death by miscommunication (see: GM says that enemy backup is thirty away so you've got time, player assumed minutes and time for some task or another while GM meant seconds and time to jump in the van and GTFO).

If you're gonna play this game, you accept the first kind (hence statements in this thread like "Death?  Death is part of the game").  You make a poor tactical decision and expose yourself to fire from two angles and don't have cover?  Say hello to the dirt or goodbye to your Edge.  But if you do that because of a miscommunication and thought that you'd be covered against both, or if the GM just has a sniper take you out from a kilometre off?  That's out of line.  And yeah, now and again it looks like you're getting at this - but most of what you're saying doesn't come across that way.

Part of the thing with rules like this, too, is that serious, permanent, character changing damage can be as good as death if it damages the concept enough; worse, perhaps, because if the character had died it would still have been that character.  Certain Face concepts, for example, would be horribly changed if the character were severely disfigured.  But, of course, this is 2075, which is why I suggested that you remember that their medtech can fix ANYTHING if you can pay for it.  Permanent damage can't really be a thing with that kind of medtech around (they can grow you a brand new freaking spinal cord if you can pay for it) - but, if it's the sort of game your players would enjoy, "permanent until you can get it fixed" certainly can be.  And heck, maybe the decker who loses an arm decides he wanted a Cyberarm of Awesome anyways, and now has a great excuse to get one.

Keep in mind that monetary rewards would seriously need to be stepped up, though, as this adds a huge maintenance cost to the game.

[Volomon]

Ya agree with most of what you said RHat, obvious situations in which you know what you could do will kill you.  I feel is at that point player choice.  If it's quite obvious for instance hearing what sounds like a rapid fire grenade launcher somewhere in the vicinity and then seeing something strong enough to punch in a reinforced steel door that was the direction you were trying to head in, is a clue.  Might have you thinking about running, but what about that guy who runs through said door to see whats on the other side, while grenades are firing out of a belt feed grenade launcher in the very door way he wants to run through.  I think I've repeatedly stated that directly killing a PC without choices without precursor knowledge, the possible intention to kill a PC just cause such as dropping grenades, snipers ect,. is not what I'm talking about and not really what the thread was about.

I probably would say hey that will probably get you killed to the player, a full automatic belt feed grenade launcher, that just another word for death chummer.  Would I stop him beyond that, no.  If he believes he can make it good luck.   I am not a person who will beyond clues, hints, and even verbal warnings will not FORCE a player to not do the wrong thing.  It's always the players choice.  The fact is it happens how many players can survive a HE that lands by their feet, especially if they get a really poor roll or even worse a critical glitch.  Not to to many.  It's just the fact of the game that there are dangerous situations that even without precursory knowledge or the valiant attention of the PC has resulted in an untimely death, for instance an NPC using a HE grenade as normal.  However that's what burning edge is for.  As far as I'm concerned in SR5 it's EXTREMELY hard to die without a doubt.  The original thread was about how people out there apply various amount of damage and/or perma damage.  It is in the SR5 book.  It doesn't have a section it's under various areas of the book.  For instance repairing drones, weapons, armor, cyberware.   Even burning an edge says that there are permanent effects.  For instance you were laying down in your coffin hotel room and started playing with a grenade.  The next thing you know you have a lubed grenade in your rectum.  You survived....somehow.   However you are EFFECTED, what that effect is, is up to the GM it seems most just don't bother however.  These examples are littered throughout the book showing the ingrained dangerous nature of SR.  I don't remember SR3 having edge, it's been a while but 1, 2, and 3, were fairly finite in deaths.  SR5 has such a high level of reprieve, I'm not quite sure you can call it all that dangerous any more.
 
As far as character change, it's a choice, an option.  Accept death as it is or cling on with what you can.  I'm not sure offering an alternative can really be considered a negative.  The rules above state that surgery is possible in every case including disfigurement.

Also ya it's hard to follow what I'm saying because on one hand I'm like death is common, and then everyone assumes OMG he's a player assassin.  So the other half of the time I'm trying to convince everyone no I'm not a mass murderer and that players should have the chance to live.  So ya I see why your confused.  I'm trying to take both stands aka a middle ground while being shot from both sides.

I don't see anything wrong with a one armed shadowrunner, he just gained distinct style and a new nickname One armed bandit.  He just became a street legend, people will wonder what happened to the great one armed bandit after he gets his other arm back.  It's not like a runner can't put up for a used or cheap cyberarm till they get enough money together.  Seems like prime motivation to run.  It's also not like he's going to get his arm blown off every single run.  Otherwise johnny needs a better seamstress.

[Reaver]

***eats popcorn, drinks beer***