[daGob]

Okay so as far as I can tell people are pretty big fans of Wired Reflexes (which I get - they're great for your initiative) but as far as I can tell Synaptic Boosters gives the same bonus for less essence but more nuyen.  Is it simply a matter of choosing which you'd rather save (essence or nuyen) or am I missing something else because as it stands I don't understand why you'd eve take Wired Reflexes.

[Bewilderbeast]

It's pretty much the "would you rather lose nuyen or Essence" thing, yes. Wired Reflexes is a great way to get an extra initiative die or two if you're playing an archetype that has heavy nuyen costs (deckers and riggers come to mind).

Wireless wired reflexes can also stack with reaction enhancers, which is something synaptic boosters very pointedly cannot do. However, I don't believe I've ever actually seen anybody go this route because it is very expensive in terms of nuyen and resources and also walking around with your surgical modifications in wireless mode is a suicidally stupid thing to do.

[Lorebane24]

I predict we are going to see this changing, and soon.  This is the first edition of Shadowrun in which synaptic boosters are available for new characters AND in the core rulebook.  In the past, their availability was too high and you tended to not started with so much nuyen.  Wired reflexes used to be the only option, and they were definitely worth it.  Now, with the boosters being in the reach of a character with priority A in resources (such as most samurai), and with alphaware rating 2 reflexes having an availability 14, we can expect to see synaptic boosters become the norm for street samurai.

That being said, the cost of synaptic boosters can still make them attractive to someone who neither needs a lot of essence nor is a combat specialist, but would like a boost to their initiative.  I have a rating 1 system on a combat decker I just made, and it's certainly worth the money.  The nearly 40,000 nuyen I saved by not springing for synaptic boosters allows me an additional level of cerebral boosters as well.

Also, the fact that it can be stacked with reflex boosters (something no other type of augmentation is able to do) means a new character focused on his reaction stat could spring for wired reflexes 2 and reflex boosters 2 to start with a reaction score of 9 (the cap for any metatype).  It would still be a questionable choice, but some people might go for it.

[RHat]

also walking around with your surgical modifications in wireless mode is a suicidally stupid thing to do.

Only if you specifically interpret one line in a very specific way that we know for a fact is not RAI.

Lorebane:  They were available for starting characters, in the core rulebook, in SR4.  Also, you're mistaken regarding (a) what the augmented max is in SR5, and (b) with the belief that Wired Reflexes/Reaction Enhancers respect that when stacked.  With regard to the augmented max, it's (Natural Attribute +4) in SR5, not (Natural Maximum * 1.5), which means the highest you can typically attain is 10 for Reaction.  However, Wired Reflexes and Reaction Enhancers in wireless mode explicitly do not respect this limitation; thus, you can get a bonus of +6 instead of just +4, and just get a possible Reaction of 12.  Thus, a character with WR3 and RE3 can have Reaction 6(12), Intuition 6, and 18+4d6 Initiative.  That means the character is guaranteed 3 passes, with the range being from 22 to 42.  That's in addition to 18 defense dice, or up to 24 on full defense.

[Bewilderbeast]

also walking around with your surgical modifications in wireless mode is a suicidally stupid thing to do.

Only if you specifically interpret one line in a very specific way that we know for a fact is not RAI.

Could you expand on this a bit? I always just assumed that wireless 'ware risked getting bricked, but I trust your opinion. Is there another interpretation I'm missing?

[Lorebane24]

Also, you're mistaken regarding (a) what the augmented max is in SR5, and (b) with the belief that Wired Reflexes/Reaction Enhancers respect that when stacked.  With regard to the augmented max, it's (Natural Attribute +4) in SR5, not (Natural Maximum * 1.5), which means the highest you can typically attain is 10 for Reaction.

I had not been aware of this.  I'm looking for it in the core rulebook now, but can't seem to track it down.  Can you please point me to where it says this?

[ProfessorCirno]

For me, it almost always comes down to "I have essence to spare, and I don't have nuyen to spare."

That said, mixing wired reflexes with two points of reaction booster isn't a bad move, as it ensures a second IP for less then Wired 2.

[RHat]

also walking around with your surgical modifications in wireless mode is a suicidally stupid thing to do.

Only if you specifically interpret one line in a very specific way that we know for a fact is not RAI.

Could you expand on this a bit? I always just assumed that wireless 'ware risked getting bricked, but I trust your opinion. Is there another interpretation I'm missing?

Some people read the description of what bricking does as saying that the 'ware lights on fire inside the body, which is where the "suicidal" component comes in.  Without that element, slaving up to something with a Sleaze attribute or maintaining different tactical footings (wireless off when running stealth, on when you "go loud") leaves you in a pretty good footing.

Also, you're mistaken regarding (a) what the augmented max is in SR5, and (b) with the belief that Wired Reflexes/Reaction Enhancers respect that when stacked.  With regard to the augmented max, it's (Natural Attribute +4) in SR5, not (Natural Maximum * 1.5), which means the highest you can typically attain is 10 for Reaction.

I had not been aware of this.  I'm looking for it in the core rulebook now, but can't seem to track it down.  Can you please point me to where it says this?

With regard to (a), page 94.

With regard to (b), page 455 in the Wireless entry for Wired Reflexes.

[Bewilderbeast]

Yeah, just to clarify; I didn't mean suicidal as in "will literally cause the death of your character." But I put the street sam who gets his wired reflexes bricked in the same category as a decker with a bricked cyberdeck or a rigger with all of his drones blown up. That is to say, completely, thoroughly, hilariously screwed.

[Michael Chandra]

Augmented Maximum applies to Cyberware, Bioware, and specific Adept Powers + Spells that state they obey Augmented Maximum. It is ignored by any other sources and explicit exceptions, such as Cyberlimbs*, Wireless WR+RE, and drugs.

*: A GM should still bitchslap any character who grabs a 9-Agi limb with a natural agi of less than 3, no matter the downsides regarding movement rate and physical limit, which both ignore cyberlimbs as well.

Bewilderbeast: My own street sam doesn't even have bonus-initiative-dice from ware. Answer to when you really need Initiative? Use Edge.

[Bewilderbeast]

Bewilderbeast: My own street sam doesn't even have bonus-initiative-dice from ware. Answer to when you really need Initiative? Use Edge.

That's a legitimate way to build a character, but the guy who spends half (!) his Essence and a considerable chunk of nuyen on Wired Reflexes 2, only to get it turned into dead weight on his nervous system by a wily enemy decker is definitely going to have some proverbial egg on his face.

Unless you and the team decker are freaking blood brothers I don't think wireless wired reflexes are a good idea.

I'm just wary of oxymorons in general, though.

[Michael Chandra]

Yeah, it's silly to do. Me, I just bought RE3 soon after chargen in Missions.

You want Initiative Dice, pay the mage so he gets a F1 Sustaining Focus and casts Increased Reflexes on you with Reagents. MUCH cheaper.

[RHat]

Yeah, just to clarify; I didn't mean suicidal as in "will literally cause the death of your character." But I put the street sam who gets his wired reflexes bricked in the same category as a decker with a bricked cyberdeck or a rigger with all of his drones blown up. That is to say, completely, thoroughly, hilariously screwed.

Eh.  He's actually still got a decent level of capability, and is in a pretty good place if he's got high Intuition and Reaction.

Bewilderbeast: My own street sam doesn't even have bonus-initiative-dice from ware. Answer to when you really need Initiative? Use Edge.

That's a legitimate way to build a character, but the guy who spends half (!) his Essence and a considerable chunk of nuyen on Wired Reflexes 2, only to get it turned into dead weight on his nervous system by a wily enemy decker is definitely going to have some proverbial egg on his face.

Unless you and the team decker are freaking blood brothers I don't think wireless wired reflexes are a good idea.

I'm just wary of oxymorons in general, though.

I think you're figuring you're giving the decker more access/ability to screw with you than you actually are.

[Reaver]

Yeah, it's silly to do. Me, I just bought RE3 soon after chargen in Missions.

You want Initiative Dice, pay the mage so he gets a F1 Sustaining Focus and casts Increased Reflexes on you with Reagents. MUCH cheaper.

This would depend on how much I like you, what other foci I have, and just what keeping you alive is worth to me

So, you best be likable, generous, and a good meat shield! (and IF you turn out to be a REALLY good meat shield, I hand out cookies with every free Heal spell!)


***

Speaking as a GM, this is something I do not allow, UNLESS that mage is an other player, or a contact made in game. Otherwise you end up in this murky grey area of contact abuse that I would rather just not get into....

[Michael Chandra]

Well if I pay you every dime (and karma) you spend, and a surplus payment can easily be negotiated... I mean, what you got to lose? You can use it on a Spirit as well. And at 8+18 soak dice, 17 attack dice and 13 defense dice (18 with full defense), I'd consider myself a decent meat shield. ^_^ Also 5 Charisma and 6 Negotiation/Etiquette for likeable.

And yes, I'd only do this with another player. A contact wouldn't easily dare, due to astral signature...