[PiXeL01]

That would leave SMGs stranded though. I can understand why the weapons are grouped the way they are.
Why not just go back to SR2 with the firearms and heavy weapons skills while we are at it?

[DWC]

That would leave SMGs stranded though. I can understand why the weapons are grouped the way they are.
Why not just go back to SR2 with the firearms and heavy weapons skills while we are at it?

My name is *insert name here* and I approve this message.  This pointless change introduced in SR3 was a mistake then and it continues to be an awful idea.

[Agonar]

That would leave SMGs stranded though. I can understand why the weapons are grouped the way they are.
Why not just go back to SR2 with the firearms and heavy weapons skills while we are at it?

Or, just tweak the skills so that they are more style specific, like another game I enjoy playing...   Skills would be Pistol, SMG, Rifles, Heavy Weapons, Gunnery..   we already have Pistols, Longarms, Automatics, Heavy, and Gunnery.  So, Change Longarms to Rifles, and allow it to be used for any rifle style weapons (including shotguns), and change Automatics to SMG, leave Heavy and Gunnery as is.

Personally though, I don't mind it the way it is.  More skills means more people specializing in a type of weapon, rather than everyone just knowing Firearms at max.

[Namikaze]

This discussion has gone way beyond the scope of one gun.  I was going to post up an opinion on how to reorganize the various firearms skills, but I'm instead going to put this into the House Rules forum.

[DWC]

It has drifted because the Rainforest Carbine is a perfect example of what is wrong with the way Shadowrun handles classifying firearms and attaching skills the their use.  It has so much abstraction that any attempt to do something that deviates from the strict part of the model just falls apart. 

If the weapon were fired with the Longarms skill, used sniper rifle ammunition and the shotgun range table, and couldn't take a suppressor due to the massive muzzle flash overwhelming every model on market, I think the result would have been much better received, though.

On the other hand,  the restrictions the designers placed on it (the small-ish magazine and being SA only) will be completely bypassed when Run&Gun hits the shelves, making belt-fed, full auto RFCs the apex predator among assault rifles and machineguns.

[mjack]

The issue is not active skills and how firearm types are distributed between those skills. You can effectively rule it with the "Substituting Skill" option.

A general issue is that SR heavily emphasises on unique items to make them an important part of the game world. And while this is a good thing to create detailed depth in a background story it seems there are no boundaries on how to create such an unique item. Boundaries in terms of this is minimum stats an item requires and this is maximum stats an item is allowed to have. Making an item balanced sometimes looks arbitrairy and without keeping all existing game mechanics in mind you suddenly have created an item lookin good on the first glance but renders overpowered or completely useless - or just not working as intended. This not SR only, but in all games where unique items are created more on rough guidelines than an fully fleshed out system. Especially, when it is not about special accessories but basic stats. I don't want to blame developers here, because this is how it worked well for SR since ever. But there is always the risk of inconsistency when trying to create an outstanding item.

Concerning the Rain Forest Carbine this does not apply here.

From what I can see in GH3 the Rain Forest Carbine is Longarms skill. It has the stats, is listed in between the Sporting Rifles and is just incidentely labeled as an Assault Rifle. The only problem with the classifications is that it is not a Shotgun, not a Sporting Rifle and not a Sniper Rifle - but for sure also not an Assault Rifle. Fortunate for me, it do not like the look and would consequently never use it. More irritating... Why the heck are all Assault Rifles in GH3 AP -1 while in Core Rulebook AP -2 and why is the Kriegsfaust with its "large-caliber round" the worst Assault Rifle in SR5?!

[Michael Chandra]

As Longarm its stats would still be overkill. The only Sniper Rifle with better stats is the squishy one that costs far more than this one.

[Agonar]

My biggest problem with the Rainforest is that it's stats are pretty much everything a Carbine isn't.  Since they are usually rifles with shorter barrels, sometimes even using pistol ammo, they should have a shorter effective range, be less accurate, have less penetration, and this Carbine is just not..  not any of it.  It's better than pretty much all assault rifles, and most of the snipers. 

They make note of the large caliber round, and short barrel..  okay, so large caliber round, I can see it remaining high damage, but it should have SMG range at best in my opinion, and maybe an accuracy of 3 or 4.  High damage if it hits, but low accuracy makes it a little easier to dodge.

[Michael Chandra]

True, but given the ways of raising Accuracy, even 3 or 4 isn't enough to restrain it at the current damage levels. If it has higher damage than the Alpha but not this much, plus the other things, it'd make quite a bit of sense.